Fore/aft alignment when boot shopping

[Duplo]

Yes, you can increase the FL number by adding a forward lean wedge. You can also adjust the net FL by either raising the toe of the bootboard a mm or 2. You could also lower the heel height of the bootboard by a mm or 2. This will get you the net FL closest to your measured 15 deg, give or take a degree. Raising or lowering might effect the overall fit of the boot, however I would always suggest getting the net forward lean correct first, then finalize the fit.

View attachment 158187
Example of raised toe to reduce the ramp angle of these bootboards...

View attachment 158190
Example of lowered heel on a bootboard. Stock it had a ramp of 5.2, modified it's ramp angle is 3.2


Yes, once the ankle is balanced inside the boot, then it is ok to play with the delta of the binding or the boot outsole. Keep in mind that all bindings on the market have a different delta from heel to toe even models of the same brand can be different. Because it is poorly misunderstood by the general skiing public, it is really easy to believe that if a little heel height or a little toe height is good, that must mean that a lot of delta change must be even gooder... MM mean a lot!!! The majority of humans are just fine balancing on skis with the heel of the binding having somewhere from + 0.5 to +2 mm of differential to ski any and all conditions. There are some exceptions where a slightly higher heel will be a benefit. And just cause it is a possibility, every now and again you will find that bye raising the toe +0 to +2 mm could benefit that skier in certain conditions. Also keep in mind that with tip and tail rocker on some ski models the sweet spot of balance can shrink to the size of a postage stamp.

Thanks @otto. I really appreciate the detailed responses.

 

[Average Joe]

Well this is all reasonably useful to know, I am getting new boots before my season starts and I know that we will cant the soles but I have wondered if I should get them canted at the same time I get them fitted, or wait until I ski on them a bit first. Looks like there's enough to be going on at the initial fitting with w.r.t. forward lean and ramp angles....

I see plenty of skiers in new boots that still need adjustments in fore and aft -Even more are in boots that have not had proper cuff alignment done first.
Many were shop canted during initial fitting.
I would advise against canting before a skier gets enough time on snow - canting after all the other issues are resolved, and by trial and error testing with temporary shims before permanently grinding boot soles.
Warren Witherells advice still holds true:
1 Assessment
2 Footbeds
3 Fore and aft
4 Cuffs
5 Canting

The man who promoted canting understood that canting is the last step in a process that takes time.

 

[Average Joe]

Hello Duplo,

I remember you from a thread on adapting an Atomic releasable cuff boot for a heel spur. What is an interesting possibility is that there is a direct correlation to heel pain in ski boots relative to the range of motion or lack thereof in the ankle joint. Low flex ankles will have a tendency to lever the heel off the boot floor therefore "bumping" into the top edge towards the outside of the calcaneous or heel bone. Hyper mobile ankle joints can also bump hard into the heel bones on the back of the shell as the hypermobile ankle can allow for the foot to collapse in the midfoot which could force the heel bone rearward in the deepest flex position of the boot.

From the internet, I cannot assess either the range of motion of your ankle joint or what the situation is that caused heel pain in that boot and no heel pain in other boots that you owned.

Assessing the range of motion in the ankle joint has to be done in a manner that isolates the basic "saddle" joint of the ankle. To isolate the ankle joint the first thing to do is take the body weight off the joint and position the foot/lower leg in a neutral position where a repeatable read can be taken. You can do it low tech by simply using your eyes to see how big a gap between the floor and the 5th metatarsal head you can create. Me personally, I use my pinky finger and or 4th or third finger as my measuring tool for ankle ROM. You could also use a digital angle meter if you are a numbers kinda guy.

Basic premise... Seated position in a chair or bench that will have the femur parallel to the floor when the feet are flat on the floor and the lower leg comes off the feet at 90 degrees, the femur should create a 90 degree angle to the lower leg, and the back should be 90 degrees to the femur at the hips, meaning that your body mass is mainly supported through your ass sitting on the bench or chair and your feet are semi weighted on the floor. Your thighs, shins, and feet should all be parallel and approx hip width apart so there are no diverging or converging angles of right or left side. With out any directional torque of the foot, the fitter would hold your heel bone to the floor as you lift your met heads as high as you can in a direct line towards the knee. In this position you would either measure ( for me with my pinky finger ) directly underneath the 5th met head to see how big or small the range is. Few or no fingers is tight, 2 fingers is normal, and greater than 2 is headed towards hyper.

So normal ROM for humans is 10 to 18 degrees for dorsiflexion. Below 10 degrees is tight and over 18 degrees is hyper. To find the matching net forward lean for the set-up of the skier that you are looking at is simple math of subtracting the ramp angle of the bootboard from the forward lean angle of the boot spoiler. So if the skier has an ankle that is 1 pinky finger that means that their number is going to be below the 10 degrees of a normal ROM ankle. If the boot spoiler is 17 degrees of FL, and the bootboard stock out of the box is 4 degrees, you would subtract the bootboard number, from the FL number and in this example the net number is 13 degrees. The ankle in this example is only one finger, so for this example the ankle has about 8 degrees ROM. How do we get the net FL number to match the action of the ankle joint? We get the net forward lean number to match the ROM of the ankle. So for this boot we cold raise the heel height to make the bootboard ramp angle to be higher ( lets say that we raise it enough to make the ramp angle 7 degrees), and then take off the FL shim that was screw riveted to the spoiler. This will make the boot FL go to 15 degrees. Now subtract 7 from 15 and the net FL angle of the boot is now 8 degrees... Bingo!!! A love match between the ankles ROM and the boot that the ankle is going into.

Otto,
On the other side of the equation, what can you do if someone has 18 degrees, or more, of dorsiflection?
I’m assuming the spoilers are removed, and their boot board ramp angle is modified to maximum.
And, thanks for your input here, it’s valuable information.

 

[otto]

I see plenty of skiers in new boots that still need adjustments in fore and aft -Even more are in boots that have not had proper cuff alignment done first.
Many were shop canted during initial fitting.
I would advise against canting before a skier gets enough time on snow - canting after all the other issues are resolved, and by trial and error testing with temporary shims before permanently grinding boot soles.
Warren Witherells advice still holds true:
1 Assessment
2 Footbeds
3 Fore and aft
4 Cuffs
5 Canting

The man who promoted canting understood that canting is the last step in a process that takes time.

A few thoughts on what holds true...

First of all what holds true is that Warren was a visionary that above all understood that the individual athlete could reach maximum performance if their equipment was adapted and manipulated to to bring the skier down the mountain fast and in balance. The best part about Warren was his ability to adapt his process as equipment changed as well as his ability to bring similar focus to other sports like waterskiing.

I know that many of the members out here want hard and fast rules to follow about equipment set-up. The tough part is that the human body has a way of testing your hard and fast rules.

What can be looked at inside of a shop without ever seeing a skier or athlete ski...

1. Assessment of the foot, lower leg, joint mobility of the ankle, arch, and the joints between 1st / 2nd met heads and 4th / 5th met heads.

2. Build a custom footbed, or choose a trim to fit that matches your arch and forefoot assessment, or choose not to use a footbed if your assessment dictates so.

3. Perform all fit grinds or punches to allow the foot to settle neutrally into the boot. This could include inner boot mods and or custom injected or molded liners.

4. Adjust the cuff of the boot to match the direction that lower leg comes off the bootboard sitting on the footbed. This is a static adjustment that does not need to be tested. If the leg goes outward the cuff goes out, if the leg goes inward the cuff goes in. Just like the bootboard is not a fit aid, The cuff adjustment on ski boots is not a cant adjustment.

After the above steps have been taken care of you move outside of the boot shell. The good news is that the first step of outside the boot adjustment can still be done inside the shop...

5. Do a cant assessment on a flat surface with the boot buckled race tight at the prescribe stance width for the skiers height and or hip width. At this point you can either choose to change the sole cant with either boot sole planing, or using shims between the lifters, or using intrasole cant shims from Cantology, or use canted lifter plates. Or you can simply write the indications of the cant assessment on the boot toe for the skier to test on hill before you make a permanent change to the boot sole. Best if you limit the on hill testing to a supervised task with a coach or ski instructor. Use all the modern tools available to confirm like video, timing, and a watchful eye. Be aware that using duct tape between the binding and the boot sole will detract from proper binding release functions.

Now as I have stated before, the very last adjustment is the on-hill only testing of your fore/aft positioning. Just cause there is currently no proven assessment technique for fore/aft balance inside of a shop.

6. On hill testing of delta either adding height to the heel or adding height to the toe. Ski 1 run heel raised, ski 1 run toe raised, ski 1 run stock delta. Ski mixed terrain, surface, speed, and turn shape each run. Keep open to the concept that if you have nailed all the other parts of the process the is a very high percentage chance that you will not have to make any fore/aft adjust to your set-up.

When working with athletes that have coaches with specific ideas of how they want their athletes set-up, respect those wishes. I have some coaches that have a high level of trust and allow me to do an accurate assessment, then go right into changing the boot sole cant. I have other coaches that appreciate the base work of doing the cant assessment, then they will perform the test of the cant prescription on the mountain in race conditions.

Just as a reality check of whether you want to believe in the deep thinkers of ski boot history... Warren's 2nd book came out before skis with deep sidecuts like 14 meters for SL and 30 meters for GS. Just like he wrote the second book to make corrections for the book "How The Racers Ski" If Warren was still alive today he would concede that with the current crop of boots, technique change, and the modern version of race ski sidecut, he would have to write another book to bring "The Athletic Skier" into the current century.

 

[otto]

Otto,
On the other side of the equation, what can you do if someone has 18 degrees, or more, of dorsiflection?
I’m assuming the spoilers are removed, and their boot board ramp angle is modified to maximum.
And, thanks for your input here, it’s valuable information.

18 degrees is on the flexible side of average. If it is affecting fit or fore/aft balance, you bring the net FL formula back in line by increasing the shells forward lean with wedges or shims between the shell and the liner. This gives you a higher FL number to subtract the bootboard angle from. You could also either raise the forefoot of the bootboard a mm or 2, or lower the heel height a mm or 2. ( only if the fit can still be rock solid holding the heel down and back in the shell.) So if yo can raise the FL of the spoiler to 20 degrees and lower the bootboard to 2 degrees, your net FL will be 18 degrees... Since that is a love match, off you go!!!

When the ankle is stiff or limited in range we straighten the the boot up and elevate the heel slightly to get the net FL to match the ankles ability to flex. When the ankle is on the more mobile side we increase the shell FL and decrease the bootboard ramp to get the net FL to match the ankles ability to over flex. In the case of the stiffer ankle it helps the skier have more ability to re-center the hips over the feet. When the ankle can move a lot, increasing the FL and lowering the ramp takes away some of the flex movement needed to narrow up home base for the skier making it easier to have a repeatable starting spot for each turn after recentering the hips over the feet.

 

[Average Joe]

A few thoughts on what holds true...

First of all what holds true is that Warren was a visionary that above all understood that the individual athlete could reach maximum performance if their equipment was adapted and manipulated to to bring the skier down the mountain fast and in balance. The best part about Warren was his ability to adapt his process as equipment changed as well as his ability to bring similar focus to other sports like waterskiing.

I know that many of the members out here want hard and fast rules to follow about equipment set-up. The tough part is that the human body has a way of testing your hard and fast rules.

What can be looked at inside of a shop without ever seeing a skier or athlete ski...

1. Assessment of the foot, lower leg, joint mobility of the ankle, arch, and the joints between 1st / 2nd met heads and 4th / 5th met heads.

2. Build a custom footbed, or choose a trim to fit that matches your arch and forefoot assessment, or choose not to use a footbed if your assessment dictates so.

3. Perform all fit grinds or punches to allow the foot to settle neutrally into the boot. This could include inner boot mods and or custom injected or molded liners.

4. Adjust the cuff of the boot to match the direction that lower leg comes off the bootboard sitting on the footbed. This is a static adjustment that does not need to be tested. If the leg goes outward the cuff goes out, if the leg goes inward the cuff goes in. Just like the bootboard is not a fit aid, The cuff adjustment on ski boots is not a cant adjustment.

After the above steps have been taken care of you move outside of the boot shell. The good news is that the first step of outside the boot adjustment can still be done inside the shop...

5. Do a cant assessment on a flat surface with the boot buckled race tight at the prescribe stance width for the skiers height and or hip width. At this point you can either choose to change the sole cant with either boot sole planing, or using shims between the lifters, or using intrasole cant shims from Cantology, or use canted lifter plates. Or you can simply write the indications of the cant assessment on the boot toe for the skier to test on hill before you make a permanent change to the boot sole. Best if you limit the on hill testing to a supervised task with a coach or ski instructor. Use all the modern tools available to confirm like video, timing, and a watchful eye. Be aware that using duct tape between the binding and the boot sole will detract from proper binding release functions.

Now as I have stated before, the very last adjustment is the on-hill only testing of your fore/aft positioning. Just cause there is currently no proven assessment technique for fore/aft balance inside of a shop.

6. On hill testing of delta either adding height to the heel or adding height to the toe. Ski 1 run heel raised, ski 1 run toe raised, ski 1 run stock delta. Ski mixed terrain, surface, speed, and turn shape each run. Keep open to the concept that if you have nailed all the other parts of the process the is a very high percentage chance that you will not have to make any fore/aft adjust to your set-up.

When working with athletes that have coaches with specific ideas of how they want their athletes set-up, respect those wishes. I have some coaches that have a high level of trust and allow me to do an accurate assessment, then go right into changing the boot sole cant. I have other coaches that appreciate the base work of doing the cant assessment, then they will perform the test of the cant prescription on the mountain in race conditions.

Just as a reality check of whether you want to believe in the deep thinkers of ski boot history... Warren's 2nd book came out before skis with deep sidecuts like 14 meters for SL and 30 meters for GS. Just like he wrote the second book to make corrections for the book "How The Racers Ski" If Warren was still alive today he would concede that with the current crop of boots, technique change, and the modern version of race ski sidecut, he would have to write another book to bring "The Athletic Skier" into the current century.

Brilliant. Well written.

And Warren did evolve from 1972 to 1994, changing somewhat his canting philosophy, and refining many of his original premises as skis and skiers evolved.
And yes I have no doubt he would refine and change once again if he observed the current state of the sport.
One aspect that resonates with students of the sport is the methodical approach he had towards the fitting and alignment process. Breaking it down, analyzing, and offering concise steps towards the goal of constant Improvment.
WRT boot alignment , he wrote that the majority of improvements derived from proper alignment were realized in the final 10 percent of the changes.

 

[Tony S]

so many clients call me up wanting to buy a boot and do a full alignment at the same time, my normal approach is lets sort the boot the footbed and the basic set up and see roughly how far you are out before we sign you up for the whole thing (it saves my time and their money) , so many people have a much better set up if they are simply in the correct size and shape of boot with the correct level of support under the foot, many of the alignment problems they have been suffering are from a boot a size or two too big or with too much volume and a poorly constructed footbed. slowly slowly catchy monkey

Going slow sounds good in theory but in practice it can be a huge challenge for people who live hours from their boot fitters, especially for work that can't be done on a "while you wait" basis. Three, four, five return visits in the course of a few weeks or a couple of months may not be practicable in light of other time pressures and obligations. ("Can you pick them up tomorrow?" "Sure, if you're putting me up in your basement.") In recent times it's doubly challenging because of labor and materials shortages and associated wait times. My fitter is scheduling appointments even for minor tweaks six weeks out at this point.

Having established the primary things that we know I'm likely going to need with a new boot, we've found it much more efficient to just get as much of it done as possible the first time through so that I don't find myself burning ski and vacation days or even entire weekends doing nothing but managing visits to address boot fitting "next steps."

 

[cem]

Going slow sounds good in theory but in practice it can be a huge challenge for people who live hours from their boot fitters, especially for work that can't be done on a "while you wait" basis. Three, four, five return visits in the course of a few weeks or a couple of months may not be practicable in light of other time pressures and obligations. ("Can you pick them up tomorrow?" "Sure, if you're putting me up in your basement.") In recent times it's doubly challenging because of labor and materials shortages and associated wait times. My fitter is scheduling appointments even for minor tweaks six weeks out at this point.

Having established the primary things that we know I'm likely going to need with a new boot, we've found it much more efficient to just get as much of it done as possible the first time through so that I don't find myself burning ski and vacation days or even entire weekends doing nothing but managing visits to address boot fitting "next steps."

you are completely missing my point, like your boot fitter, i am incredibly busy, i cant afford to schedule time for your "alignment appointment" on the end of your initial boot fit just incase you need it.... now, if you are willing to pay for that time whether you need it or not then fine, happy to accommodate, but in a short selling window, i can't sit around for an hour hoping your biomechanics are screwed up, as i said at the start of the post that you quoted, the vast majority of people can be well served getting into a boot the correct size and shape for their feet, with the correct level of support and the cuffs set up correctly, beyond that it is maybe 25-30% of people who COULD benefit, but only 10% that want to or are willing to pay.

on this forum there are probably a higher % but that is because we are in a fairly specific forum for enthusiasts of the sport

 

[Tony S]

you are completely missing my point, like your boot fitter, i am incredibly busy, i cant afford to schedule time for your "alignment appointment" on the end of your initial boot fit just incase you need it.... now, if you are willing to pay for that time whether you need it or not then fine, happy to accommodate, but in a short selling window, i can't sit around for an hour hoping your biomechanics are screwed up, as i said at the start of the post that you quoted, the vast majority of people can be well served getting into a boot the correct size and shape for their feet, with the correct level of support and the cuffs set up correctly, beyond that it is maybe 25-30% of people who COULD benefit, but only 10% that want to or are willing to pay.

on this forum there are probably a higher % but that is because we are in a fairly specific forum for enthusiasts of the sport

Right. I wouldn't expect to get a service I hadn't paid for.

 

[SkiMore]

This is an interesting thread. I want to do an assessment of my dorsiflexion and gear, but I can't find any info my boots and bindings. Can anyone tell me what the angles are on my boots and bindings?
Technica Mach 1 HV 130 BSL is 325
Head Freeflex 14

Thanks for any info.

 

[Noodler]

This is an interesting thread. I want to do an assessment of my dorsiflexion and gear, but I can't find any info my boots and bindings. Can anyone tell me what the angles are on my boots and bindings?
Technica Mach 1 HV 130 BSL is 325
Head Freeflex 14

Thanks for any info.

Freeflex 14 has a 4.0mm delta.

 

[Iceski01]

Where can I get boot shims to see if changing my binding delta helps my fore aft balance?

 

[cantunamunch]

Where can I get boot shims to see if changing my binding delta helps my fore aft balance?

Proper boot shims are got at the boot fitters - they then have to route the top of the boot lug to match what the binding expects.

Experimental, temporary boot shims can be made by folding paper or gaffer tape. Stress experimental, stress temporary.

 

[LiquidFeet]

One can get plastic sheets that are wedged at 0.5º, 1º, 1.5º, 2º and so on up to 3º, matching what a bootfitter might do to adjust the sole or lugs on a boot. These sheets can be cut into little strips just the right size to slide under your boots for a run or two to see how the skis behave.

Tognar makes these. They are canting strips, and come in sizes 0.5º up to 3.0º. What you need is a friendly bootfitter who will give you some small strips to take home and try on your own. Be sure they are labelled as to what degree of canting they offer. You slide one under each boot as you click in and go ski. Try each size until you can tell your skis behave better. You can tuck them under the front lug, the back lug, or under both plates on the inside or outside of your boot.

Mine have duct tape attached as a "handle" with the degrees written in permanent marker. I have two of each size, so when I'm trying lateral canting I can put one under the toe piece and another under the heel piece. These shims will temporarily affect your bindings' release function, so bear that in mind.

 

[cantunamunch]

Tognar makes these; they are canting strips.

Ski Binding Cant Strip

The ability to keep skis flat on the snow is the basis of strong turns and good strides, often canting the bindings can help.

www.tognar.com

Those go *under* the binding - which is fine if one is prepared to do one's own (re)mounting work.

Also, they are next to useless on system skis.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Ski Binding Cant Strip

The ability to keep skis flat on the snow is the basis of strong turns and good strides, often canting the bindings can help.

www.tognar.com

Those go *under* the binding - which is fine if one is prepared to do one's own (re)mounting work.

Also, they are next to useless on system skis.

I am describing temporary off-label usage of these canting strips. Yes, the product is meant for being cut to size and inserted semi-permanently under the bindings. But you can try small strips under your boots when you are clicked into a system binding, and if they make you happy then have the bootfitter make the permanent adjustment on your boot soles.

You aren't going to want to buy the strips from Tognar. Too much money, too much material to store. You need a friendly bootfitter to cut and give you little strips to take and try.

The alternative is to stick X number of layers of duct tape per degree (I never can remember how many layers supposedly equals 1º) to the underside of your boots and go see if that works. I've never trusted the squishiness of duct tape when we are talking about 0.5º of difference between options.

 

[ScottB]

Putting a wedge under your boot between the boot and binding toe piece is very dependent on the binding. On most of my bindings, it won't fit. If you can adjust the toe AFD height or toe height, then it is easy to do. On the heel, it will probably work on all bindings, as the heel rotates and clamps the heel no matter what height. As you say, temporary use for experimenting, as it will screw up your release function. And this is for canting, side to side angle, it is not for fore/aft balance adjustment, or delta adjustments.

Fore/aft can be done with flat shims, depending on the binding. The permanent approach is flat shims under the toe and heel piece, but requires new screws and remounting (usually in the same holes). I have done this on some of my skis.

Lots of ways to improvise or experiment with FL, and getting in the right ball park is usually good enough. There is also forward lean of the boot cuff, which is different than delta shims, but addressing the same general issue, but differently.

 

[ScottB]

A few thoughts on what holds true...

First of all what holds true is that Warren was a visionary that above all understood that the individual athlete could reach maximum performance if their equipment was adapted and manipulated to to bring the skier down the mountain fast and in balance. The best part about Warren was his ability to adapt his process as equipment changed as well as his ability to bring similar focus to other sports like waterskiing.

I know that many of the members out here want hard and fast rules to follow about equipment set-up. The tough part is that the human body has a way of testing your hard and fast rules.

What can be looked at inside of a shop without ever seeing a skier or athlete ski...

1. Assessment of the foot, lower leg, joint mobility of the ankle, arch, and the joints between 1st / 2nd met heads and 4th / 5th met heads.

2. Build a custom footbed, or choose a trim to fit that matches your arch and forefoot assessment, or choose not to use a footbed if your assessment dictates so.

3. Perform all fit grinds or punches to allow the foot to settle neutrally into the boot. This could include inner boot mods and or custom injected or molded liners.

4. Adjust the cuff of the boot to match the direction that lower leg comes off the bootboard sitting on the footbed. This is a static adjustment that does not need to be tested. If the leg goes outward the cuff goes out, if the leg goes inward the cuff goes in. Just like the bootboard is not a fit aid, The cuff adjustment on ski boots is not a cant adjustment.

After the above steps have been taken care of you move outside of the boot shell. The good news is that the first step of outside the boot adjustment can still be done inside the shop...

5. Do a cant assessment on a flat surface with the boot buckled race tight at the prescribe stance width for the skiers height and or hip width. At this point you can either choose to change the sole cant with either boot sole planing, or using shims between the lifters, or using intrasole cant shims from Cantology, or use canted lifter plates. Or you can simply write the indications of the cant assessment on the boot toe for the skier to test on hill before you make a permanent change to the boot sole. Best if you limit the on hill testing to a supervised task with a coach or ski instructor. Use all the modern tools available to confirm like video, timing, and a watchful eye. Be aware that using duct tape between the binding and the boot sole will detract from proper binding release functions.

Now as I have stated before, the very last adjustment is the on-hill only testing of your fore/aft positioning. Just cause there is currently no proven assessment technique for fore/aft balance inside of a shop.

6. On hill testing of delta either adding height to the heel or adding height to the toe. Ski 1 run heel raised, ski 1 run toe raised, ski 1 run stock delta. Ski mixed terrain, surface, speed, and turn shape each run. Keep open to the concept that if you have nailed all the other parts of the process the is a very high percentage chance that you will not have to make any fore/aft adjust to your set-up.

When working with athletes that have coaches with specific ideas of how they want their athletes set-up, respect those wishes. I have some coaches that have a high level of trust and allow me to do an accurate assessment, then go right into changing the boot sole cant. I have other coaches that appreciate the base work of doing the cant assessment, then they will perform the test of the cant prescription on the mountain in race conditions.

Just as a reality check of whether you want to believe in the deep thinkers of ski boot history... Warren's 2nd book came out before skis with deep sidecuts like 14 meters for SL and 30 meters for GS. Just like he wrote the second book to make corrections for the book "How The Racers Ski" If Warren was still alive today he would concede that with the current crop of boots, technique change, and the modern version of race ski sidecut, he would have to write another book to bring "The Athletic Skier" into the current century.

Really good summary of how to approach sorting all this out. One question, you don't mention forward lean setting of the cuff, assuming the boot has that feature. Is that done or determined in item 1, or it makes sense to me to do it in item 4, which is where my boot fitter addressed it. He asked me what I wanted and told me the choices (shim built into the boot, not a wedge). I picked the #, 18 deg, and he put in the shim for it. I loved it in the shop and on the slopes, so all good. I would have changed it myself if needed by trial an error on the slopes, but almost all boots need a starting point setting (which could be whatever the factory setting is). If adjustment is done by wedge, then its more easily done by the skier on the hill. Shims are simple, but more complicated as they change not only the forward lean, but also change the play (forward/rear freemdom of movement) your leg has before flexing the shell.

 

[Iceski01]

Really good summary of how to approach sorting all this out. One question, you don't mention forward lean setting of the cuff, assuming the boot has that feature. Is that done or determined in item 1, or it makes sense to me to do it in item 4, which is where my boot fitter addressed it. He asked me what I wanted and told me the choices (shim built into the boot, not a wedge). I picked the #, 18 deg, and he put in the shim for it. I loved it in the shop and on the slopes, so all good. I would have changed it myself if needed by trial an error on the slopes, but almost all boots need a starting point setting (which could be whatever the factory setting is). If adjustment is done by wedge, then its more easily done by the skier on the hill. Shims are simple, but more complicated as they change not only the forward lean, but also change the play (forward/rear freemdom of movement) your leg has before flexing the shell.

I made it thru 5 of the above assessments.I think Warren said it best when he said the first 80% of what you do gives a 20%increase in performance.The last 20% gives you a 80% increase.At the risk of sounding ignorant I am still at a loss as to where to look.I have Rossi Hero elite ti with R22 and a SPX 12 binding.The shop made me flat with the binding at my request and moved the binding 1 bolt ahead.My boot is a Atomic Redster Club Sport low cuff 110 size 24.5 with the lower bolt out in the back ,ground a little in the boot board and a pretty thick spoiler in the rear.It is the first boot I have had I don't need canted.have been told I am almost hyper mobile.The issue I am trying to correct is not feeling the tip.I just want to get my feet back whenever I want to.I have been using duct tape and it is a pain to deal with.I am a Northeast skier.Thanks for all the responses.

 

[ScottB]

You need to explain a little better. You say issue is not feeling the tip? Meaning when you flex the boot forward the ski doesn't react? That could be the ski, but explain or describe more. Also where are you putting the duct tape??