Frank's (flawed) Bike Poll

[scott43]

Sigh.... Today's sport bikes are nothing like the bikes you rode, for better and worse. They're spectacularly fast and handle unlike anything you've ridden. If you have enough dough for an R1, go for it. You should also consider the BMW s1000rr. The GSXR750 is not the same category but the 1000 is. If you want to step down in price the 750 and 600 offer the same sensation without the rider aids and are a little lighter.

What's the ultimate goal? I assure you that a gsxr600 will scare the bejeezus out of you. 600s pull HARD up to 240kmh. Litre bikes are only faster. And have nice torque.. If you intend to have a passenger I'd go 750 or 1000 every time. I don't really enjoy riding them on the road so much anymore. I loved riding them on the track when you can use them the way they were intended to be used. On the road? I mean, what's the point? I've seen so many people killed and crippled from hidden intersections, rock cuts, left turners. Get a nice tourer.. vstrom or sv650..

 

[DesmoDog]

Nothing on a high-end sport bike will have a performance limit that a lapsed rider will have the skills to exploit. The steering damper will be fine. If it's not, Ohlins would be happy to sell you a fancier one.

I'm highly biased but if you are looking for the cutting edge of suspensions and brakes and such, you need to pony up for the limited edition bikes or something like the upper ends of the V4 Panigale line.

I'm not a big fan of the "it's only there if you call on it" mentality. Riding a fast bike slowly sucks. Fast bikes are not set up to be ridden at lower speeds/levels of agressiveness. In the extreme cases, you won't even be riding the bike hard enough to get the suspension to work. You wouldn't buy race skis to ski with your novice level buddies would you? I mean, you COULD, but why?

I ride with a guy who has multiple bikes, including a 200hp Panigale with higher bars and a couple other tweaks to make it a bit more streetable. He rarely rides it and fully admits the new Monster he bought for his wife works SO much better on the street. Our last ride of the season was a few days in the Smoky Mountains. He had the Panigale and has already said if we go back this season he'll bring something else.

Forget the spec sheets. Buy the one that makes you smile. If that's because it's a color you like than so be it, that's just as legit as basing your choice on anything listed on the spec sheet. Bikes are an emotional choice, not logical or rational. You know what you want, just go with it. No need to rationalize one over the other.

I have a 30+ year history of buying bikes that don't make sense when comparing spec sheets. I have zero regrets about any of them and couldn't care less that the popular opinon has always been there was a "better" bike to buy. I think there are bikes out there you would enjoy riding a lot more than either of those but if that's what you want then just buy the one you are thinking about when you're not really thinking about it.

EDIT: I bought a Ducati Monster 1200S back in 2015. The first time I rode that bike was the day I realized I'd never buy a Superbike again. Bikes have changed a ton since the '90s. Before you buy anything, do like Scott mentioned and figured out your ultimate goal, what you truly want from the bike. I sold my 996 after 17 years with about 7000 miles on it. I had multiple bikes and on numerous occassions I would go intot he garge fully intending to ride the 996 but ended up taking something else instead. The 996 only got riddenwhen I wanted to ride a 996, it virtually never got ridden when I just wanted to go for a ride. Full on sprotbieks are a rare breed these days, people have moved on to other types of bikes, and for good reason.

There are always low mileage sportbikes for sale. I'm convinced a big reason for that is a lot of guys buy them and find out the fantasy doesn't match the reality.

 

[sparty]

YMMV, but I wouldn't buy a full-on sportbike unless I had the time and cash to take it to the track. And even then, given the tracks around me, I'd go for a 600 at most.

If you can find a factory demo opportunity (or a dealer that encourages test rides, which is more common with some makes than others), I'd definitely try that before buying. As others have said, some of the tech has changed a whole lot in the recent past.

You may also want to check insurance rates. I don't know where you are, but I've seen some eye-raising rates on sportbikes even in typically affordable demographics (i.e. not males under 25). In some cases, the "streetier" version of the bike (slightly more friendly ergos and a mechanically identical powerplant) gets rated differently.

But if I were to choose between the two you mentioned, I'd go for the R1, just because there's a strong correlation in my mind between GSXR riders and stupid riding. I doubt it's any more statistically valid than with any other sportbike, but it's there.

 

[François Pugh]

YMMV, but I wouldn't buy a full-on sportbike unless I had the time and cash to take it to the track. And even then, given the tracks around me, I'd go for a 600 at most.

If you can find a factory demo opportunity (or a dealer that encourages test rides, which is more common with some makes than others), I'd definitely try that before buying. As others have said, some of the tech has changed a whole lot in the recent past.

You may also want to check insurance rates. I don't know where you are, but I've seen some eye-raising rates on sportbikes even in typically affordable demographics (i.e. not males under 25). In some cases, the "streetier" version of the bike (slightly more friendly ergos and a mechanically identical powerplant) gets rated differently.

But if I were to choose between the two you mentioned, I'd go for the R1, just because there's a strong correlation in my mind between GSXR riders and stupid riding. I doubt it's any more statistically valid than with any other sportbike, but it's there.

Thanks for your thoughts. If Yamaha still had the R6 even an older R6 like I got to rent at Shanonville race track FAST school, it would definitely be in the running. The current ~600 cc bikes from Honda and Yamaha are kinda watered down sport bikes, you know, kinder gentler, better commuter bikes with higher bars and more comfy ergonomics. I guess Honda and Yamaha realized they were killing off their customer base. The 750 Suzuki is basically the 600 Suzuki with more motor and a tiny bit more mass.

The R1 might even have lower insurance rates....hmm. It's likely wiser to use the 750 as a stepping stone before jumping on a Litre bike though...
Decisions decisions.

I need to go look at some in person and let my heart speak to me. Too bad they are all so far from Sudbury.

 

[DesmoDog]

I guess Honda and Yamaha realized they were killing off their customer base.

Or more likely their customer base (and everyone else's) realized how ridiculous race bike ergonomics are for the average Joe riding on the street.

Sportbikes didn't go away because they were killing people. They went away because the more focused they got, the more people figured out they didn't make much sense on the street. FWIW - the most fun I've had at a trackday was on a Ducati Monster 1200S and I've ridden numerous sport bikes on tracks too.

Ride one of the "streetfighter" style bikes - generally a sport bike chassis with relaxed ergos - and try to explain why a sportbike makes sense on the street. It doesn't. But the few who are still buying them don't do it because they make sense. Which is fine, more power to them.

 

[scott43]

I'd go back to your roots and wait for the new VFR...

 

[François Pugh]

Or more likely their customer base (and everyone else's) realized how ridiculous race bike ergonomics are for the average Joe riding on the street.

Sportbikes didn't go away because they were killing people. They went away because the more focused they got, the more people figured out they didn't make much sense on the street. FWIW - the most fun I've had at a trackday was on a Ducati Monster 1200S and I've ridden numerous sport bikes on tracks too.

Ride one of the "streetfighter" style bikes - generally a sport bike chassis with relaxed ergos - and try to explain why a sportbike makes sense on the street. It doesn't. But the few who are still buying them don't do it because they make sense. Which is fine, more power to them.

Yeah, you're right. They stopped making them, because people stopped buying them.

The best performing, best handling, skis are race skis (and racing boots), yet, most skiers on the hill don't want, and wouldn't like, race skis or race boots. They want a compromise. The best performing, best handling, bikes are race bikes. Most riders don't want the best performance, best handling bike; they want a compromise bike, that is more accommodating.

@scott43 Honda made a decision last century and will stick to it. As long as there is an in-line 4 Honda high performance bike, the V-4 shall remain their kinder gentler bike. Exactly what I found very disappointing about my old V4 (first bike that I owned myself) as compared to my first bike - which wasn't mine, but borrowed off my brother. Yes, I liked the fact that it handled better (except for that speed wobble), but it was always lacking engine character. If I have to give up some comfort; I'll gladly do it. If comfort ever becomes an important feature, I've got a nice comfy car to drive.

Goals: get to know the bike (carefully) for a year or two, then start in on track days and start playing with traction limits and high cornering forces. They still have track days, don't they?

 

[DesmoDog]

They still have track days, don't they?

Yep

 

[scott43]

Pro 6. Free plug. $320 a day now. They're the exclusive suppliers for Calabogie. Not so much Mosport. Great folks. Done many days with them..

 

[cantunamunch]

I'd go back to your roots and wait for the new VFR...

Now that's an interesting idea.

 

[scott43]

Now that's an interesting idea.

Loved the VFR.

 

[François Pugh]

Yep

Ducatis are beautiful. Their V-twins are sport bikes. Their V4s ARE high performance bikes. One might even say (in Italian), the Pinacle of sportbike design.

 

[sparty]

Goals: get to know the bike (carefully) for a year or two, then start in on track days and start playing with traction limits and high cornering forces. They still have track days, don't they?

IMO, you're not going to get to know the bike until you start in on track days or another controlledb environment that lets you push your performance envelope on the bike (I don't think many mortals can truly push the performance envelope on a modern sport bike).

Re: the comparison to race skis that I cut from the quote, yes, a full race worthy setup (skis and boots) will crush anything else in the proper environment (a race venue with a race-prepped surface). As you move away from that environment, the performance ceiling on a pair of race skis drops off and other skis tend to be a lot closer (and, eventually, with a surface that's far enough from race-prepped, maybe a softer and/or wider pair of skis might perform better).

I haven't spent enough time on motorcycles recently to be sure, but I strongly suspect the same is true. Give a WSBK rider the chance to ride a curvy road repeatedly on both a supersport built and a similarly powered but more street oriented bike, and his ability to eke out a faster time from the supersport is going to be compromised by the surface, debris, traffic, cops, moose, etc. Do the same test on a track, and the supersport is going to be worth more of a differential.

 

[DesmoDog]

Ducatis are beautiful. Their V-twins are sport bikes. Their V4s ARE high performance bikes. One might even say (in Italian), the Pinacle of sportbike design.

You're preaching to the choir. The dog in my avatar really was named Desmo.

That is an old photo but was typical of my garage for a lot of years. These days I'm down to a 2022 Streetfighter V2 and a 1993 Superlight. Plus three project bikes. There are always a few project bikes around.

 

[Tom K.]

I'm not advocating for a bike in the liter class, but if I were determined to buy in that category, it very well might be this Speed Triple!

https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/roadsters/speed-triple-1200-rr

 

[François Pugh]

Update: I got the 750.

She is living in my garage down in the balmy southlands (Guelph Ontario Canada) for now, so I only get to ride it on weekends, usually in the early morning.
It is surprisingly comfortable (BTW the Aprilia V4 S Factory was also comfy in the store - but I was biased towards Japanese reliability, and didn't want to jump back in on a litre bike), but so far I have not gone on any long rides. Only about 190 kms on the bike. I was fully expecting a more racy position from a sport bike. I'm still breaking it in, and the manual says not to exceed 7000 rpm for the 1st 1000 kms, so not even close to the point where it would start to pull. It seems a shame to keep the RPMs so low because the engine smooths out around 6000 rpm. On the other hand, I may as well get used to not using the top of the tach, as I no longer have zero points on my license (owning a red corvette can do that to you).

It's got an electronicly controlled throttle with two settings and fuel injection, but that's it, no other electronic stuff to come between you and controlling bike. Though why in the hell would you want to change from the throttle response you know well when it's raining or otherwise slippery, I'll never figure out.

BTW the engine is very docile below 7000 rpm; I'm sure it's not when you get closer to red line. I've heard it has a Jeckyll and Hyde personality

Suzuki GSX-R750 | Acceleration & Top Speed - MotoStatz

The GSX-R750's top speed is 170 mph. It can accelerate from 0-60 mph in 3.13 seconds and 0-100km/h in 3.21 seconds. The GSX-R750's quarter mile time is 10.58 @ 138 mph

motostatz.com

Once I get my riding legs back under me (and get my points back in three years) , I'll get the Ohlins Steering damper and maybe put a Hindle exhaust to give the power curve a bit more "Mr. Hyde".

Handling is fine once you're moving, but slow speed is a bit more tricky, not as tricky as on the dynosaur I learned to ride on, but not as easy as riding a Grom. I doubt I would do quite as well in the square turns on the test. Yes, it will be quite a while before I'm sliding around corners. I'm gonna have the biggest chicken strips ever, LOL. Like the song goes, I ain't as good as I once was.... and I know it. The Vette and I are one; the bike, not so much.

I was being very careful not to go too fast; they told me unsafe acts would be an automatic failure .
Ordered a custom fit suit from Dainese (the measurment chart put me in many different sizes depending on what body part was measured and nothing seemed to fit right off the rack), but they say it will be months before I get it. They still have to hear back from Dainese to give me a date. In the mean time I picked up this..

Debating on whether I should spring for pants or use the fact that I'm riding on a giant grindstone with unprotected legs to encourage me to be more careful.

 

[Tom K.]

Update: I got the 750.

Sweet!

Enjoy and report back after break-in is complete.

 

[cantunamunch]

report back after break-in is complete.

If the fingers still work?

Oh, you mean of the bike.