friendlier "race" boot...?

[WadeHoliday]

Hi Calbearski,
I didn't love the fit of the firebird R 140, it was similar to my doberman 130, but something was off for my foot. With some work and zip fit, that may have done it...
The Doberman wc110 felt better for me, and was just a hair softer. The STI 130 feels more flexible than my highly modified/softened doberman 130 was, I'd say firebird 140 was similar in flex to sti 130. I have to admit, if you are looking for a narrow WC type boot that is more energetic and easier, the sti 130 is awesome! Best boot I've ever owned, thx again Newfydog.
And, I can get out of it after skiing on cold day without driving for 10-15min with the heat on my feet, which I never could do in my tecnica r93 or dobies...
Cheers!
W

 

[WadeHoliday]

PS, I just noticed my title to this thread again...
yes, after about month on them now, the Atomic STI 130 was the unicorn I was looking for, the friendlier "race" boot.
Also, no leaking yet, as that was Scotskiers issue with it, there is an extra seal on the lower overlap that I've never had on another boot, maybe that is what they added and tweaked the toe dam.
Cheers, W

 

[onenerdykid]

PS, I just noticed my title to this thread again...
yes, after about month on them now, the Atomic STI 130 was the unicorn I was looking for, the friendlier "race" boot.
Also, no leaking yet, as that was Scotskiers issue with it, there is an extra seal on the lower overlap that I've never had on another boot, maybe that is what they added and tweaked the toe dam.
Cheers, W

Hi Wade - congrats on finding the unicorn! Just out of curiosity, did you need a lot of work done to get it right for you? Or just the "normal" amount for a boot in this category?

 

[Calbearski]

Hi Wade:
Thanks for the feedback. After looking at the Atomic site, I'll look at the Redster Club Sport 130 since my foot is a bit wider. Years ago I skied the Atomic RT Ti 130 (it took a lot of work to fit my foot). It was the best slalom boot I ever put my foot in, so maybe lighting will strike twice with Atomic.

Thanks Again!

 

[WadeHoliday]

great, good luck!

Newfydog, I needed slightly less tweaks than my last couple of boots. We had the template of my previous boot for a rough idea of areas that were of concern, but tweaks were easy. Biggest issue was the lower instep, but we got to where we needed to be tweaking the liner tongue.

thx!
W

 

[Moose32]

Am I the only one that thinks a boot needs to have a flex of 150 or higher to be called a “plug boot”?

 

[James]

Am I the only one that thinks a boot needs to have a flex of 150 or higher to be called a “plug boot”?

A Lange ZA is pretty soft relative to the ZC.
They’re both plug boots. It either is or isn’t. The flex is separate.

 

[Philpug]

Am I the only one that thinks a boot needs to have a flex of 150 or higher to be called a “plug boot”?

Yes. Plug has to do with the shell design, not the flex.

 

[Moose32]

A Lange ZA is pretty soft relative to the ZC.
They’re both plug boots. It either is or isn’t. The flex is separate.

Ok, I have just always taken “plug” to mean a boot that a racer on World Cup would use. Not a lot of ZA’s running this week in Kitz or Schladming.

So maybe it’s me. But what official criterial make a shell a plug? Or is it like pornography? (I know it when I see it)

It will take some time for me to think of a 110 flex boot as a “plug boot”.

 

[James]

Ok, I have just always taken “plug” to mean a boot that a racer on World Cup would use. Not a lot of ZA’s running this week in Kitz or Schladming. So maybe it’s me.

Well at one point they used...Full Tilts! Well, Raichle Flexons. Someone must have used a Salomon SX rear entry but I don’t know.

You could relatively easily get a plug boot.

 

[Philpug]

Ok, I have just always taken “plug” to mean a boot that a racer on World Cup would use. Not a lot of ZA’s running this week in Kitz or Schladming.

So maybe it’s me. But what official criterial make a shell a plug? Or is it like pornography? (I know it when I see it)

It will take some time for me to think of a 110 flex boot as a “plug boot”.

"plug" refers to the plug/inner mold of the shell, it is smaller and meant to be customized by grinding to match the foot.

Paging @onenerdykid to the SkiTalk Courtesy Phone.

 

[pliny the elder]

All boots are technically plug boots. There is an external mold ( two pieces) and and an internal mold or plug that goes inside. The plastic gets injected into the void.

If you put a smaller internal mold or plug into the external molds, more plastic goes in and the boot becomes narrower and stiffer. This was the origin of the term plug boot. Nowadays they are built with their own molds and only share cosmetic similarities with their retail counterparts.

Retail boots have thinner plastic shells and thicker more padded liners. The fit comes primarily from the liner. Race boots have thick plastic shells and thin liners, the fit comes from carving the shape of the foot into the plastic.

pliny the elder

 

[Swede]

Most ”race boots” that you see on the shelves in ski shops are not plug boots. Plug boots do not fit ”out of the box”, they often require quite some work to work.

 

[onenerdykid]

"plug" refers to the plug/inner mold of the shell, it is smaller and meant to be customized by grinding to match the foot.

Paging @onenerdykid to the SkiTalk Courtesy Phone.

We actually talk about this in my most recent podcast with Blister. A "plug" boot isn't any different from a "non-plug" boot- either all boots are plug boots or no boots are plug boots. A ski boot is made with an outer mold (what creates the external shape you see) and an internal last (what creates the internal fit where your foot and leg go). Melted plastic fills the space between the last and the mold and that's your shell (or cuff). In this regard, there is no difference between the shell of a Redster TI and a Hawx Ultra - they are made the same way. The only differences are last geometry and mold geometry. There's nothing in their mold construction that constitutes or resembles a "plug".

What is commonly referred to as a plug boot is simply a narrow lasted boot with a thick wall thickness. This accurately describes a race boot from any brand, but it isn't uniquely made or made differently from any other ski boot. It's simply a narrow fit with thick plastic.

 

[Swede]

But what is commonly reffered to as a ”plug” are the ones made with the small ”plug”, leaving thicker plastic walls that needs some plastic carved out and grinded away to fit. Same procedure but different tools.

 

[onenerdykid]

But what is commonly reffered to as a ”plug” are the ones made with the small ”plug”, leaving thicker plastic walls that needs some plastic carved out and grinded away to fit. Same procedure but different tools.

It's an entirely different last that is used. By this definition a Lange RX LV is a plug and the MV is a regular, but no one would call the RX LV a "plug boot".

Again, it's just molds and lasts and the resulting fit & wall thickness of using such combinations.

 

[Swede]

It's an entirely different last that is used. By this definition a Lange RX LV is a plug and the MV is a regular, but no one would call the RX LV a "plug boot".

Again, it's just molds and lasts and the resulting fit & wall thickness of using such combinations.

Ok. I thought the discussion were about ”race boots”, so in a Lange world it would be RS or a Z-model, where the first would not be referred to as a ”plug”. Technically right or wrong.

 

[onenerdykid]

Ok. I thought the discussion were about ”race boots”, so in a Lange world it would be RS or a Z-model, where the first would not be referred to as a ”plug”. Technically right or wrong.

This is the point I am trying to make: they are either all plug boots or none of them are. There's no "plug" - it's just a last.

The term "plug" is just confusing. It doesn't need to exist. It's not helping people understand how ski boots are made or their construction.

 

[Philpug]

This is the point I am trying to make: they are either all plug boots or none of them are. There's no "plug" - it's just a last.

And there are no "freeride" bindings, just different colors.

 

[onenerdykid]

And there are no "freeride" bindings, just different colors.

and brake widths