Fun Car...

[DesmoDog]

Exactly! What took 'em so long.
P.S. Love the Ducatti Panagale V4S

At a track day a few years ago I rode a V4 Panigale S back to back with a V2 Pani. The instructor I was riding with told me I was faster everywhere on the track with the V2... except the front straight. Granted some of that may have been due to not wanting to trash a bike I couldn't afford to pay for, but still. The V4 was an amazing bike but for my money/skill level the V2 was the better choice. When they announced the V2 Streetfighter (A V4 version already existed) I put my money where my mouth was and bought one. (I'm done buying superbikes). And I had to sell my 851 to get it at that.

The performance of the V4 Ducs are so far over my head I doubt I'll ever own one, but I like that they exist. I think Ducati's size delayed the inevitable for longer than it should have on the racebikes. Honda and Ducati got into the bike busiiness around the same time. The same year Ducati built bike number one million, Honda built bke number 300 million. I don't think many people realize(d) how small Ducati is (was). The underdog aspect was one of the draws for me. They simply didn't have the money to develop a V4 in the earlier days. As big a V twin fan as I am, I welcomed the V4 with open arms. But, I'm no purist and also wouldn't mind if desmo valvetrains went away. Some might think that is blasphemy, but they've already gone back to springs on some of the Multistradas.

Features define eras, not brands. Everything has it's day.

The reign of the Vtwin was fooking glorious, but it's over. Long live the V-twin!

PS. In 30+ years of riding I've never owned a bike with more than two cylinders, but I do regret not buying an RC30 back when I could still afford one. Dang I love those things.

 

[DesmoDog]

It was a political powerplay by Ducati. They were too slow for obvious reasons and would hold the threat of withdrawing from WSBK if they didn't get their way. Same with the Japanese manufacturers. I'm much happier seeing them kick ass in MotoGP now. Even though it seems like supersport sales fell off a cliff..

Threaten to leave? Why would any brand stay in a series they knew they couldn't be competitive in? "Hey WSB - Our crankcases last three hours at this point. We've got these things tuned to within an inch of their lives. We can't keep up without rule changes." Is that a threat or a reality check? Ducati wasn't exactly a gorilla of a company back then, how much leverage did they really have?

If a v-twin wins people say the handicap isn't fair. If they don't win, is it because they can't with the current rules or that they just aren't trying hard enough? CAN'T win vs DON'T win. Which is it? Do you change the handicap until v-twins start winning, or do you do a bunch of theoretical mumbo jumbo to decide what they should need in order to be competitive? I have no idea how the handicaps are/were decided. If the rules were written to favor twins why did Ducati move to V4s? Why didn't Honda stick with V-twins? Is that sort of discusion part of the appeal of WSB?

It's too bad there weren't other V-twins in the mix to act as some sort of reality check for the displacement handicaps. Or was the lack of other succesful V-twins in the series proof that the displacement bump wasn't a magic advantage to assure success?

In the end I have no idea if the handicaps were "fair", but I do know something was needed to keep any brand not running a four cylinder in the running. And that was the point of WSB, right? Get the various companies out on the track racing their "streetbikes".

Of course, when Ducati started winning MotoGP races the argument became somewhat moot to Ducati fans around the world. They won a series with displacment handicaps and they won a series without them. I don't even follow WSB anymore so this is just a bit of mindless rambling at this point i suppose.

 

[Philpug]

So way back around 2000 a friend bought one of the first RC51's that came into our local Honda shop. Thing was he was working 7 days a week to pay for it. So being a good guy I volunteered to do the break in miles and the first service so IF and WHEN he ever got some time to actually ride the thing it could be unleashed.
It turned out to be the devils own tool.

View attachment 232570

I know it sounds like a hard job but I was willing to take one for the team. And he went for it! In it's day that thing was so torquey and downright fast that I found myself doing stupid things that I shouldn't... often! Got a bit of an opening ahead, squirt out and go by 4, 6 or more cars in a single lunge. And it made fantastic sounds. It made me bad. By the time break in was done and I handed the keys back over to him I was a little glad to have it gone. That may be why I'm still here today. Back on my old Airhead and my old riding ways!

I had a Honda S2000 for a couple of weeks while my Miata was in the shop. The engine's power was intoxicating how it went through the RPM band. Where my my Miata was "responsible" on the road and comfortable to 80MPH on the highway, the S2K made me irresponsible and I found myself hitting triple digits more often than eas prudent. I succumbed to the reality that I could either have an S2K or a license, I wouldn't have both.

In the past 30-some years we have heard of brands creating "Miata killers" everyone of them has come and gone and the Miata carries on. IF Honda created an S1600, same body as the S2K, but a smaller motor (with the same high reving attributes), no power top, cloth interior, lighter weight, less content and a more Miata competitive price, that might have been the car.

 

[scott43]

Threaten to leave? Why would any brand stay in a series they knew they couldn't be competitive in? "Hey WSB - Our crankcases last three hours at this point. We've got these things tuned to within an inch of their lives. We can't keep up without rule changes." Is that a threat or a reality check? Ducati wasn't exactly a gorilla of a company back then, how much leverage did they really have?

If a v-twin wins people say the handicap isn't fair. If they don't win, is it because they can't with the current rules or that they just aren't trying hard enough? CAN'T win vs DON'T win. Which is it? Do you change the handicap until v-twins start winning, or do you do a bunch of theoretical mumbo jumbo to decide what they should need in order to be competitive? I have no idea how the handicaps are/were decided. If the rules were written to favor twins why did Ducati move to V4s? Why didn't Honda stick with V-twins? Is that sort of discusion part of the appeal of WSB?

It's too bad there weren't other V-twins in the mix to act as some sort of reality check for the displacement handicaps. Or was the lack of other succesful V-twins in the series proof that the displacement bump wasn't a magic advantage to assure success?

In the end I have no idea if the handicaps were "fair", but I do know something was needed to keep any brand not running a four cylinder in the running. And that was the point of WSB, right? Get the various companies out on the track racing their "streetbikes".

Of course, when Ducati started winning MotoGP races the argument became somewhat moot to Ducati fans around the world. They won a series with displacment handicaps and they won a series without them. I don't even follow WSB anymore so this is just a bit of mindless rambling at this point i suppose.

It wasn't the team or rules so much as the fans (not directed at you) who thought they were actually faster than the inline fours. I explained the differences repeatedly but it was really looking talking to a brick. I gave up. To this day I think twin fans think they're actually faster..

 

[DesmoDog]

It wasn't the team or rules so much as the fans (not directed at you) who thought they were actually faster than the inline fours. I explained the differences repeatedly but it was really looking talking to a brick. I gave up. To this day I think twin fans think they're actually faster..

I don't think the twins ever put out more power than the 4s? As I recall the four cylinder guys were jealous of how the twins came out of corners? Hello big bang engines. But that was a lot of years ago so I may not be recalling things correctly.

And lets' not go in to what fans think - as much as I like the brand, the fan base? well... I sure do like the brand.

 

[Andy Mink]

If you like the V twins there's always the bagger races. Pretty impressive with big bikes sliding around the track.