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International (Europe/Japan/Southern Hemisphere) General Europe Q

darius1981

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Posts
12
Location
Pennsylvania
Hello all,
I am planning to ski Europe 2022 assuming the pandemic has eased a bit more. That said, I ski primarily on piste (99%) and enjoy nice après. I’ve been to PC/DV/Vail and my wife is a strong upper intermediate (can ski all backbowls at vail.). Going to Aspen next week. We are in our early 40’s looking to explore Zermatt, Lech/St Anton, the Dolomites over the next few years. I don’t have any second hand advice on the pros and cons of each locale or European skiing in general —. Is it “worth it” to ski the alps over a western US resort trip in light of the convenience factor? Would love any and all input! Many thanks
 

scott43

So much better than a pro
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Nov 12, 2015
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13,552
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Great White North
They certainly like they're grooming over there so yes from that point of view. The vastness of some of the resorts is pretty cool. après is great. I think it's worth it to at least try. It's different.
 

AlpedHuez

Chasing that Odermatt form
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Mar 4, 2020
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432
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Oakland/Tahoe expat in London
I didn't do a European ski holiday until I moved to Europe, and, in my opinion, each of the Alps/Dolomites ski centres I have been to just feel more special all around, on and off piste, and après ski. Perhaps it is the Olympic or World Cup heritage, the lovely ski towns, or whatever, but it is definitely different enough from skiing in Tahoe or Rockies or Whistler to be worth the extra expense. I am really missing that experience this season. Not to be all fairy tales about it, but there is some sense of magic to the historic places that the U.S. resorts can't match for the total experience.
 

Rod MacDonald

Getting off the lift
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Joined
May 30, 2017
Posts
273
I have extremely limited experience of skiing is the US (I'm from Scotland), my only visit for skiing was in 1992, on Honeymoon, when we stayed in the North Star Lodge at Killington.
While I loved it then, and I have been back to killington to visit (but not ski) , it was my first experience of a large ski area. Previously I, (we) had only been to Scottish ski areas which are very limited ( you'd probably call them local ski hills) and one other trip to Sierra Nevada, not the US one, the one in southern Spain.

For one reason or another, we stopped going skiing for many years, but then caught the bug and we or (i) have been away at least one major trip for the last many.
Its my favourite thing, ever. I'd happily forego a summer sunshine holiday to ski, my other half is by no means as keen, but likes the general winter holiday idea.
In the last few years, our trips have been to Alpbach, Austria ,Morzine in the Portes du soleil, France mostly! , two trips to Canazei, which is in the Italian Dolomites, and most recently, just before the covid lockdown, to Kitzbühel, Austria.

In the UK, most skiers will book a package holiday , usually through one or two main travel companies, typically Inghams or Crystal . The deal will normally include, flights, transfers, hotel or chalet accommodation and usually food on a half board basis. (Breakfast and evening meal) . Normally, extras such as ski passes, rental equipment and lessons as required can be added into the total cost, or purchased separately in resort.
Some people prefer to arrange it all themselves, or at least partly , arranging their own flights etc.
In view of the above, many resorts become over supplied shall we say with a certain type of visitor, since the travel co's offer limited numbers of resorts.

The resorts I've been fortunate enough visit have varied quits a lot , for example Alpbach is a typical beautiful little alpine village , with not an awful lot by way of aprés. Thats OK by me, we're older now...morzine in the pds is a different matter. Very busy, very aprés,and very full of the people I don't particularly want to spend time around. The ski areas linked to the PDS lift pass are wonderful however, and range over a massive area, indeed more than one country.
Kitzbühel is wonderful. Superbly connected so simple to get to, (we could get on a train outside our hotel) and very swish indeed, way more so than my pockets could imagine. It is the only ski resort , on a mountain, in a land locked country in which I saw a "Yacht shop".
Lots of very expensive cars, and equally expensive looking ladies.
The skiing here,is of course fantastic too. We went there because I wanted to see the famous Streif course, my wife wanted to go because it looked really nice. It met both requirements.

My favourite so far, by a long, long way though is the dolomites. Fabulous skiing everywhere , many hundreds of kilometers of beautifully pisted, 100% (allegedly) snow sure snowmaking system. Just beautiful scenery, totally different from the normal alpine views. You'll have seen the scenery at the recent World champs from Cortina- ot of this world. See also the pic in my avatar - thats from the top viewing platform on the Marmolada, at 4000m+
Oh, did I mention the Sella Ronda? No? A 40km + linked circuit around the central mountain massif, which can be skied in 4 or 5 hours, either clockwise or anti, and gives access to all the other linked ski areas included in the ticket.
Simply wonderful.

Add to that the ability to stay in any of the various linked resorts, and indulge in quieter, or more rowdy places as you choose while still enjoying the same enormous area.

Food and drink in the dolomites are far better value both on hill and off than resorts in the other alpine countries, and I find the local people far friendlier too.
The main difference between the skiing in us/alps I my limited experience is on/off piste. Although there is undoubtedly plenty off piste in europe, most skiing is piste.
There are very few "bowls" in the american resort style. Also, most of the on-piste is above the tree line. I often look at American piste maps where there are pistes cut through trees and think "wow, there are 3 runs on that entire mountain face" what a waste of terrain.

I'm happy to ski, at all, especially at the moment, but if I could recommend one single place to go from my admittedly limited experience, it would 100% be the Dolomites.
 
Thread Starter
TS
D

darius1981

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Posts
12
Location
Pennsylvania
I have extremely limited experience of skiing is the US (I'm from Scotland), my only visit for skiing was in 1992, on Honeymoon, when we stayed in the North Star Lodge at Killington.
While I loved it then, and I have been back to killington to visit (but not ski) , it was my first experience of a large ski area. Previously I, (we) had only been to Scottish ski areas which are very limited ( you'd probably call them local ski hills) and one other trip to Sierra Nevada, not the US one, the one in southern Spain.

For one reason or another, we stopped going skiing for many years, but then caught the bug and we or (i) have been away at least one major trip for the last many.
Its my favourite thing, ever. I'd happily forego a summer sunshine holiday to ski, my other half is by no means as keen, but likes the general winter holiday idea.
In the last few years, our trips have been to Alpbach, Austria ,Morzine in the Portes du soleil, France mostly! , two trips to Canazei, which is in the Italian Dolomites, and most recently, just before the covid lockdown, to Kitzbühel, Austria.

In the UK, most skiers will book a package holiday , usually through one or two main travel companies, typically Inghams or Crystal . The deal will normally include, flights, transfers, hotel or chalet accommodation and usually food on a half board basis. (Breakfast and evening meal) . Normally, extras such as ski passes, rental equipment and lessons as required can be added into the total cost, or purchased separately in resort.
Some people prefer to arrange it all themselves, or at least partly , arranging their own flights etc.
In view of the above, many resorts become over supplied shall we say with a certain type of visitor, since the travel co's offer limited numbers of resorts.

The resorts I've been fortunate enough visit have varied quits a lot , for example Alpbach is a typical beautiful little alpine village , with not an awful lot by way of aprés. Thats OK by me, we're older now...morzine in the pds is a different matter. Very busy, very aprés,and very full of the people I don't particularly want to spend time around. The ski areas linked to the PDS lift pass are wonderful however, and range over a massive area, indeed more than one country.
Kitzbühel is wonderful. Superbly connected so simple to get to, (we could get on a train outside our hotel) and very swish indeed, way more so than my pockets could imagine. It is the only ski resort , on a mountain, in a land locked country in which I saw a "Yacht shop".
Lots of very expensive cars, and equally expensive looking ladies.
The skiing here,is of course fantastic too. We went there because I wanted to see the famous Streif course, my wife wanted to go because it looked really nice. It met both requirements.

My favourite so far, by a long, long way though is the dolomites. Fabulous skiing everywhere , many hundreds of kilometers of beautifully pisted, 100% (allegedly) snow sure snowmaking system. Just beautiful scenery, totally different from the normal alpine views. You'll have seen the scenery at the recent World champs from Cortina- ot of this world. See also the pic in my avatar - thats from the top viewing platform on the Marmolada, at 4000m+
Oh, did I mention the Sella Ronda? No? A 40km + linked circuit around the central mountain massif, which can be skied in 4 or 5 hours, either clockwise or anti, and gives access to all the other linked ski areas included in the ticket.
Simply wonderful.

Add to that the ability to stay in any of the various linked resorts, and indulge in quieter, or more rowdy places as you choose while still enjoying the same enormous area.

Food and drink in the dolomites are far better value both on hill and off than resorts in the other alpine countries, and I find the local people far friendlier too.
The main difference between the skiing in us/alps I my limited experience is on/off piste. Although there is undoubtedly plenty off piste in europe, most skiing is piste.
There are very few "bowls" in the american resort style. Also, most of the on-piste is above the tree line. I often look at American piste maps where there are pistes cut through trees and think "wow, there are 3 runs on that entire mountain face" what a waste of terrain.

I'm happy to ski, at all, especially at the moment, but if I could recommend one single place to go from my admittedly limited experience, it would 100% be the Dolomites.

Wow! Thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed response. Was very helpful in clarifying my decision. I’ve seen photos of the Dolomites - truly stunning with UNESCO heritage to boot. Do you recommend staying in one town over others? Best base village?
Many many thanks!!!
Darius
 

fatbob

Not responding
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Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,288
You've got a good shortlist already for European destinations.

Zermat/Cervinia
St Anton/ Lech ( also called the Arlberg)
Dolomites

All offer special European experiences and are different enough from each other. For Dolomites , Arabba is a good choice of location for the Sella Ronda.

A word of warning though. You might luck out on snow but it's perfectly possible to hit a drought period for 2 weeks or more almost anywhere in Europe. So make sure you're all about the scenery and culture rather than all time epic snow and if you luck out on the latter be prepared to pay for guiding because all the usual caveats apply re skiing off the groomers.
 

Rod MacDonald

Getting off the lift
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Joined
May 30, 2017
Posts
273
You've got a good shortlist already for European destinations.

Zermat/Cervinia
St Anton/ Lech ( also called the Arlberg)
Dolomites

All offer special European experiences and are different enough from each other. For Dolomites , Arabba is a good choice of location for the Sella Ronda.

A word of warning though. You might luck out on snow but it's perfectly possible to hit a drought period for 2 weeks or more almost anywhere in Europe. So make sure you're all about the scenery and culture rather than all time epic snow and if you luck out on the latter be prepared to pay for guiding because all the usual caveats apply re skiing off the groomers.
Arraba is not somewhere I've stayed, although I have skied the area. The "snowheads" forum do several annual trips there every year "covid allowing", and they base themselves in the Portovesco hotel . I'm led to believe the après in that location is rather limited in comparison to some others.
The dolomites in particular have absolutely amazing snowmaking, and so at least there, there is little or no worry about hitting a drought year. As I said before, if you're looking for great snow because you're all about off piste, that's not really the thing, but you'll be fine if you are happy to ski groomers.
 

Rod MacDonald

Getting off the lift
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273
Wow! Thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed response. Was very helpful in clarifying my decision. I’ve seen photos of the Dolomites - truly stunning with UNESCO heritage to boot. Do you recommend staying in one town over others? Best base village?
Many many thanks!!!
Darius
I'd hesitate to give you a recommendation since I've stayed in the same village / Town both times . Canazei certainly is on the more inexpensive end of the scale, and I'd say equivalent to any non-"special" resort if you know what I mean. Many of the other resorts in the area are larger/ fancier/ more expensive- often due to there being world Cup races held there (cortina, val Gardens etc) alta badia and so on.
It's a truly enormous area.
 

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Rod MacDonald

Getting off the lift
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At least 12 separate areas
 

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Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Team Gathermeister
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^^^
Paper map guy!
 

Jim Kenney

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Yes by all means give the Alps a go. Be sure to take advantage of some of the terrific extra cultural and après ski opportunities. I took a ski trip to Austria. Got in some great skiing at a variety of places and spent several days visiting Salzburg with music concerts, dinner shows, castle tours, and Mozart's birthplace museum.
1091852447_castle.jpg


I believe a lot of Americans who go to the Dolomites make a side trip to Venice.
 

Rod MacDonald

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Yes! My wife and I went to Saltzburg from kitzbühel, we literally stepped across the road from our hotel onto the train, then spent an enjoyable journey through great scenery passing by a few resorts such as zell am see , and had a great day out. That's my wife's "thing" , there has to be somewhere /something else to do or she won't go..another time she took a day trip back into Geneva and visited the Large Hadron Collider..
 

anders_nor

Making fresh tracks
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on snow
Definetly research where you end up, lots of nice places, lots of shitty places. Like they dont bother to groom every day, so its ice & bumps

Also wait until après kicks back. I much prefer Austria, to swiss.

Sometimes the lift/gondola lines are just.... stupid, and I'd much rather just ski in norway. skiiing 2000+ meters of vert is kinda unique though.
 

Jacob

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Oct 13, 2017
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Maui
Wow! Thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed response. Was very helpful in clarifying my decision. I’ve seen photos of the Dolomites - truly stunning with UNESCO heritage to boot. Do you recommend staying in one town over others? Best base village?
Many many thanks!!!
Darius

When choosing where to go, it’s best to check on flights to the various airports around the Alps first. There’s no point getting your heart set on a particular resort if you can’t get a reasonable flight to the airport in that region.

The airports to check are Geneva, Zurich, Turin, Milan, Venice, and Munich, with Geneva and Zurich serving the most resorts. Also keep in mind that quite a lot of accommodation is geared toward 7-night stays, usually running Saturday to Saturday, so you might want to factor that in.

If you can get reasonable flights to Zurich, then my go-to recommendation for first-timers is to visit St. Anton in the 3rd or 4th week of January. In my experience, it’s got the best overall combination of town, terrain, and mid-season snow. Plus, it’s easy to get to from Zurich, and it’s definitely got the après scene for those who want it.
 

Blue Streak

I like snow.
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A Swiss friend of mine recommended going to one of the many Club Med resorts in the Alps. Does anyone have any recommendations (or warnings)?
 

Jacob

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A Swiss friend of mine recommended going to one of the many Club Med resorts in the Alps. Does anyone have any recommendations (or warnings)?

Club Med is basically just full service accommodation when it comes to skiing, not resort management. It’s a bit like the ski resorts in the US that have Marriott hotels: they’re not Marriott resorts; they’re resorts that have Marriotts.

If you’re really into the Club Med experience, then they have some locations in some nice resorts, like Val d’Isere. But personally, I choose my ski area first and my accommodation second, rather than the other way around.
 

Jacob

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A Swiss friend of mine recommended going to one of the many Club Med resorts in the Alps. Does anyone have any recommendations (or warnings)?

Oh yeah, my one warning related to Club Med is about their Pragelato location. Basically, Pragelato is on the edge of the Milky Way ski area. There’s not much terrain in that section, so you’ll want to ski the other parts of the area. But because of the location and layout of the terrain, it’s time consuming to get to the other parts of the area and back from Pragelato. Also, as far as I could tell, there isn’t much of anything at the base other than the Club Med facilities.

I like the Milky Way area, but I think Sestriere and Sauze d’Oulx are better bases.
 

James

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There used to be Club Med at Brevent in Chamonix. I believe it’s gone. People I know who did it were ok with it. One advantage was getting a guide. But that is easily duplicated by yourself or at any hotel.
 

AlpsSkidad

Buying more gear
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759
There used to be Club Med at Brevent in Chamonix. I believe it’s gone. People I know who did it were ok with it. One advantage was getting a guide. But that is easily duplicated by yourself or at any hotel.
That Brevent Club Med was sold to Folie Deuce a few years ago. It's the only Folie Deuce hotel in the world now. We stayed in it Spring of 2019, and it was a nice place.
 

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