Good Universal Wax - Hertel? Or something else?

[Jacques]

I stopped using the Graphite versions because of the new clear bases. Do regular ReNew, Zoom, and Bullet have a different antistat?

Renew & Zoom, no. The Bullet yes. A "clear" base needs graphite. What do you want, base color, or glide in cold and manmade snow? I love a good graphite "stained" base.

 

[ScottB]

Based on what you are saying, all you need is Dominator Graphite Zoom & some Dominator Bullet.
In the super cold or man made you blend the Bullet in with the Zoom.
You might also consider a bar of Graphite Base Renew for base preparation. It's like the glue that makes the wax job last longer. Based on your time skiing, these bars will last you a long long time!
Both these wax have anti-static ingredients which are super important for good glide.
Say goodbye to the Terry wax.

I use the Dominator waxes above. I didn't use the base prep wax at first and only got 1-2 days out of a hot wax. After adding the base prep Renew, got 3-4 days out of a hot wax. It makes the glide wax stick better and longer.

 

[Jacques]

I use the Dominator waxes above. I didn't use the base prep wax at first and only got 1-2 days out of a hot wax. After adding the base prep Renew, got 3-4 days out of a hot wax. It makes the glide wax stick better and longer.

Yes, no matter what wax one uses, a good super soft base prep wax is always the ticket to prepare.
After that, just use the base prep. wax from time to time. No need every time.
For base prep. the Graphite Renew is the better choice.
Why? See this video part. Should start at 11:18

 

[Decreed_It]

Learning to wax this weekend - would the group still recommend Hertel Hot Sauce for East Coast mostly "warm" conditions - and 99.999% man made snow?

By warm I mean, cold for us is mid 20's. Usually closer to 30.

If there's a strong feeling for below mid 20's still 99.999% manmade snow - all ears.

 

[cantunamunch]

Hertel is OK for those temps but not terribly durable.

Do it 50/50 with Swix CH5 for below mid20s but 99.999 manmade - and brush it out like crazy!

 

[Decreed_It]

good beginner brushes? these?
Reading up further - what base wax would you add to Hertel to make it a bit more durable? Have I even read that right? Good base wax plus final wax = 4-5 days vs 2-3?

 

[James]

He’s talking a Base Prep wax. Eg, Dominator Renew, Swix BP88 warm, Bp77 Cold

This weekend will be spring.
Just say no to amazon Brushes are ok. Nylon is for polishing, not really needed.

 

[cantunamunch]

Have I even read that right? Good base wax plus final wax = 4-5 days vs 2-3?

Umm, a direct way to get that sort of durability is to replace Hertel entirely with a harder wax that has internal lubrication like graphite or moly.

TOKO Backshop bar wax "MOLYBDENUM"-5864

High-quality bar wax with molybdenum for a warm temperature range from 0°C to -12°C - ensures good air in the ski workshop thanks to reduced smoking properties This

www.rain-sport.de

Using great prep wax and a pricey hardener with Hertel is a bit of a 5-outboards-on-a-johnboat approach.

 

[James]

Umm, a direct way to get that sort of durability is to replace Hertel entirely with a harder wax that has internal lubrication like graphite or moly.

TOKO Backshop bar wax "MOLYBDENUM"-5864

High-quality bar wax with molybdenum for a warm temperature range from 0°C to -12°C - ensures good air in the ski workshop thanks to reduced smoking properties This

www.rain-sport.de

Using great prep wax and a pricey hardener with Hertel is a bit of a 5-outboards-on-a-johnboat approach.

Lol. Every thread that contains Hertel also contains posts like, “I use dish soap”, or “I use WD40”. Maybe even Pam, but that’s too expensive.

 

[Decreed_It]

This weekend will be spring.
Just say no to amazon Brushes are ok. Nylon is for polishing, not really needed.

Indeed. Raining and 40s for Saturday practice. Sunny and high 40s for the race Sunday. Going with whatever they have at the local shops, Coach said they carry the right stuff for our conditions.

thanks for the beta!

 

[Jacques]

Learning to wax this weekend - would the group still recommend Hertel Hot Sauce for East Coast mostly "warm" conditions - and 99.999% man made snow?

By warm I mean, cold for us is mid 20's. Usually closer to 30.

If there's a strong feeling for below mid 20's still 99.999% manmade snow - all ears.

Man made may not be so much about snow temp. , but about the minerals in the water used to make it.
A wax like Dominator Graphite Zoom would be a good choice for man made as the graphite solid lubricant and anti-static will help to prevent base burn and the graphite is hard enough to prevent hard minerals and clay from penetrating the wax.
If it's super cold (or not) with man made you would want to add some Dominator Bullet into the mix.
Bottom line for man made..........Graphite Zoom mixed with Bullet. Good luck!

 

[James]

Indeed. Raining and 40s for Saturday practice. Sunny and high 40s for the race Sunday. Going with whatever they have at the local shops, Coach said they carry the right stuff for our conditions.

thanks for the beta!

Not sure you’re going to want to pay for what works. Fluoros. More, the better. If as many people ski raced as used coke, El Chapo would have been smuggling hi fluorinated ski wax too.

A deep structure also, but then you have to change back.

 

[Decreed_It]

Not sure you’re going to want to pay for what works. Fluoros. More, the better. If as many people ski raced as used coke, El Chapo would have been smuggling hi fluorinated ski wax too.

A deep structure also, but then you have to change back.

I'm willing to go there, at this rate it's about $25-35 a pop for wax/edge and we're needing it every 3 days or so. We got a pre-season tune, have practiced 4-5 days with 1 race day and I can feel it distinctly in my skis - these conditions are chewing them up. The clay water ice is rough here and the coaches are happy to teach us basic ski tuning so I'm going all in. Kinda have to.

Deep structure and change back? Mean full strip and wax change for different (actual winter real snow) conditions? These skis are exclusively used here in NC. Western skis in the quiver, will probably rent my son a diff pair when we head out on trips.

 

[trailtrimmer]

Holmenkol Red is reasonably cheap and effective from about 15 degrees to 30. If it's going to be wet, crayon in some HF8BW to the base before applying. Your skis will glide well from 15 to 32+

As mentioned, structure is king, but skip the deep spring grind unless you have lots of $$$ to toss around and like to constantly rebuild the wax content of the base every time you re-grind.

 

[James]

Deep structure and change back? Mean full strip and wax change for different (actual winter real snow) conditions?

No, structure is the pattern put into the ptex.
Usually by the stone grinder. Nordic skis can use other techniques.
I assume you have a structure? If not, you need a stone grind. But fresh grinds are slow, though on snow that wet it’s probably faster than no structure.
But no, don’t recommend a deep structure unless you’re always in wet.
You’re not getting fluoros with a standard wax job. Shop would go broke.

Look up @ Jacques Dominator ‘Butter’ video. Pretty easy to use. Yeah, for you and the dirty snow I’d just use Dominator graphite zoom for general then supplement for very warm, very cold, very wet.
A good layer of ironed in High Fluoro is nice.
40gm of it is about $75.

Dominator Hi-Fluoro Wax

Dominator Hi-Fluoro Wax - Ski and Snowboard wax designed and tested for top level racing when snow has high moisture content.

the-raceplace.com

Graphite is not hydrophobic. So, some fluoros are good. For you, maybe something like this, or the Swix noted above is the ticket for wet.
There’s an interesting “new” method of applying/mixing the fluoro-graphite

Dominator Fluorographite (SRB) Wax

Dominator SRB Anti-Static Wax - old snow ski and snowboard wax.

the-raceplace.com

 

[trailtrimmer]

But fresh grinds are slow, though on snow that wet it’s probably faster than no structure.

The shop that does your grinds may be slow, but I assure you, my shops fresh grinds are not.

 

[James]

Fresh stone grinds are slow. It’s not a debate. These things are tested. None of this really matters at rec race level, except maybe Nastar. Technique far outweighs friction.

Now, maybe if you have a laser structure done it’s different. Those machines are rare now.
But, you have to blank the base somehow, usually with a stone I would think.

LS-1 RACE – The first laser structure machine for skis

The revolution in ski service - the Reichmann laser structure machine for skis. High-precision structures in unlimited variety for exceptional skiing performance.

www.reichmann-skiservice.com

 

[OldJeep]

The cheap racewax cold weather wax (green) is my universal wax. Even when it is warm you are skiing on a base of ice around here. If the base ever gets to the point that you think you want a warm wax you are better off going waterskiing.

 

[cantunamunch]

Deep structure and change back? Mean full strip and wax change for different (actual winter real snow) conditions? These skis are exclusively used here in NC. Western skis in the quiver, will probably rent my son a diff pair when we head out on trips.

Go with an intermediate structure like linear with a light cross - but make absolutely sure you're scraping and brushing all the surface wax off.

 

[trailtrimmer]

Fresh stone grinds are slow. It’s not a debate. These things are tested. None of this really matters at rec race level, except maybe Nastar. Technique far outweighs friction.

Now, maybe if you have a laser structure done it’s different. Those machines are rare now.
But, you have to blank the base somehow, usually with a stone I would think.

LS-1 RACE – The first laser structure machine for skis

The revolution in ski service - the Reichmann laser structure machine for skis. High-precision structures in unlimited variety for exceptional skiing performance.

www.reichmann-skiservice.com

Direct from the machine to the snow, they absolutely would be, but if you put a couple rounds of wax on and polish with scotchbrite, they are much faster than bases with little structure. My skis don't hit snow after a grind until they see at least three rounds of moly/graphite prep and soft waxes.

The laser machine is intriguing. I can't imagine the price tag though.