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Goodrich v Alterra Mountain Company Settlement

Jenny

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You're in the net, stop squirming already and wait for the bottom to close ;)
LOL - I just edited my post to say that we got back all of our cancelled trip related costs, so we came out OK. I won't turn down their $10, though. IF we go Ikon next year, of course.
 
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TS
Brian Finch

Brian Finch

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So, now that you moved there, no one else can? ;) I remember when my in-laws moved there, unless you were 3-4th generation, you were still not a local.

Again, how is that Alterra's fault?

Vermont also had an incentive for people to move to there. We have seen an influx in Reno as with every area w/in 300 miles from a major city which is not much different than what happened in Vermont.

In my mind I welcome the newcomers and as soon as you move & contribute ;0 (income or property tax), you are a Vermonter. I'm for the increased diversity.

Alterra - not the government, not the CDC or anyone else posted blockades and guards preventing those who live in the mtns from enjoying the mtns that already paid to use, but reaped the benefits of having the same skilled professionals continue to provide fire, medial, law enforcement....... infrastructure services to all. Yet select posters here feel that the we got enough skiing or should have read the fine print further & should "suck it up". I'd love for someone to call 911 with a fire & hear "suck it up, you got enough fire suppression this year already".
 

fatbob

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Where ya stand depends on where ya sit. If you are a healthcare provider or medical professional in the mtns, you are likely only here for the skiing - there's not much else here & its the reason you can't recruit here. Ask @Yo Momma ; you expect to have tradeoffs, but you live in the mountains.



What we got was thousands of extra ppl to be responsible for, no lift served skiing and they banned skining that spring plus a housing vacuum. So now it's even harder to get professionals to move here, but we should "suck it up....buttercup" ; I personally know the folks in the Hospitals and Emergency Departments here - they have been sucking it up for 3 years at this point.
But this is just a point about how mountain towns in the US are structurally farked. They are desirable nice places to be on the surface. Plenty of locals will have made bank in selling land/construction/flipping real estate and continuing services. And I'm sure the town is delighted to collect associated taxes. Then along comes a global event that actually means people can live in these places they've always wanted to and your local services can't actually cope and there are no homes affordable for people to come in and do those sort of jobs. That's all on future planning and affordable housing policy.
 

fatbob

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Re the suck it up. That's on the pass moans alone. No-one was able to go skiing because ski ops were stopped. Personally I'm with you on not being allowed uphill access to the hills at your own risk for exercise based activity once ops had ceased particularly where you held a pass BUT litigation being what it is in the US you can see why corps took the less risky route.

I'm a bit unclear of how Alterra benefited from ongoing medical services when the resort wasn't operating and staffed. Fire yeah maybe but no more than any out of season shutdown. Maybe the town or county ought to bill them for something extraordinary but I've no idea what.
 
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Philpug

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Alterra - not the government, not the CDC or anyone else posted blockades and guards preventing those who live in the mtns from enjoying the mtns that already paid to use, but reaped the benefits of having the same skilled professionals continue to provide fire, medial, law enforcement....... infrastructure services to all.
It sounds like you saying the resorts stopped paying taxes when they shut down.
Yet select posters here feel that the we got enough skiing or should have read the fine print further & should "suck it up". I'd love for someone to call 911 with a fire & hear "suck it up, you got enough fire suppression this year already".
While many are saying that they did get their moneys worth, they are also saying how is shutting down Alterra's fault? As far as those that didn't plan on using their passes until the Spring, as in any other year, there was no guarantees that there would be Spring skiing, they took a calcualted risk. We used to go to A-Basin every Mothers Day, one year there was no snow and they had to close, was that their fault? No. Could they have predicted the warm Spring? Maybe. Could they have blown more snow? Maybe. Did we sue? No.

When you base your ecomomy on a weather based sport, there are risks and maybe I am looking at this in a too simplistic way but I look at the pandemic as an act of nature that was out of the control of the locals such as a warming trend, flood or even a blozzard that shuts down a resorts for an extending period of time.

Extreme example, if we had a complete global breakdown of the internet, would people sue SkiTalk because they missed out on their enjoyment of the site.
 

Pequenita

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Another view (are there any antitrust lawyers out there???): I would argue that Ikon/Alterra and Vail are monopolies. I am empathetic to those who bought multi-resort passes with the intent to use them during only spring break. If their ski vacations got truncated after one day in 2020, they got hosed. For travelers, many resorts do not sell multi-day or other discounted lift tickets anymore, or visitors need to jump into the online reservation fray, and the best option for both cost and potentially not having to deal with reservations/daily lift ticket caps is to get a session/multi-day Ikon or Epic pass. If they've planned on skiing for more than a few days, then a regular season pass starts making a lot of sense. And this is all because there aren't many resort-specific multi-day lift tickets anymore. There are hardly any other discounted lift products anymore, although I think some independents have things where one pays a set amount up front to get a certain percent off walkup lift tickets. Palliwood has a 4-pack, but that wouldn't cover a week-long vacation.

In my view, the shutdown in March 2020 isn't Alterra's fault, but I can see the frustration of those who could barely use their passes that year. The business model is structured so that people favor purchasing season passes for a week-long ski vacation, rather than the old business model of a resort-specific multi-day discount. I distinctly remember pre-Alterra, there was a *crappy* day of skiing at pre-Palliwood (either Xmas day or New Years), and I received a voucher because management acknowledged that the conditions were terrible and lifts closed early, etc. Palliwood could make that decision to reimburse me - despite my having a season pass - because at the time, the pass product wasn't tied in to the current multi-resort pass business model.
 

Gary Stolt

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It sounds like you saying the resorts stopped paying taxes when they shut down.

While many are saying that they did get their moneys worth, they are also saying how is shutting down Alterra's fault? As far as those that didn't plan on using their passes until the Spring, as in any other year, there was no guarantees that there would be Spring skiing, they took a calcualted risk. We used to go to A-Basin every Mothers Day, one year there was no snow and they had to close, was that their fault? No. Could they have predicted the warm Spring? Maybe. Could they have blown more snow? Maybe. Did we sue? No.

When you base your ecomomy on a weather based sport, there are risks and maybe I am looking at this in a too simplistic way but I look at the pandemic as an act of nature that was out of the control of the locals such as a warming trend, flood or even a blozzard that shuts down a resorts for an extending period of time.

Extreme example, if we had a complete global breakdown of the internet, would people sue SkiTalk because they missed out on their enjoyment of the site.
Phil, only companies with $$$millions get sued, especially Class action suits. I often wonder how well altera is doing. With this class action suit, I hope they are doing well enough to stick around.

Ikon credited me with $12 although I only missed skiing at the virtual a basin meetup.
 

tball

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A-basin should be sued next. I never used my A-basin season pass, and they didn't do anything to compensate me and other pass holders.

The unconscionable thing A-basin did when they reopened in May was to sell day tickets, while pass holders only had access through a lottery. I never won the lottery, so couldn't use my pass, while A-basin was taking money for day tickets.

Funny how Al's blog stopped taking comments around then. Maybe Al can chime in here.
 

Wilhelmson

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It’s more like prepaying for a year of cellphone data service and only getting 10 months of service. No matter what the cause, people would go berserk without a partial refund.
 

fatbob

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.

Extreme example, if we had a complete global breakdown of the internet, would people sue SkiTalk because they missed out on their enjoyment of the site.

Personally I'm already drawing up the suit for wasting of personal time, aesthetic judgement and anxiety around the NoSo Round 2 vote when it was exposed as a sham that made no difference to production.
 

Bill Miles

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It sounds like you saying the resorts stopped paying taxes when they shut down.

While many are saying that they did get their moneys worth, they are also saying how is shutting down Alterra's fault? As far as those that didn't plan on using their passes until the Spring, as in any other year, there was no guarantees that there would be Spring skiing, they took a calcualted risk. We used to go to A-Basin every Mothers Day, one year there was no snow and they had to close, was that their fault? No. Could they have predicted the warm Spring? Maybe. Could they have blown more snow? Maybe. Did we sue? No.

When you base your ecomomy on a weather based sport, there are risks and maybe I am looking at this in a too simplistic way but I look at the pandemic as an act of nature that was out of the control of the locals such as a warming trend, flood or even a blozzard that shuts down a resorts for an extending period of time.

Extreme example, if we had a complete global breakdown of the internet, would people sue SkiTalk because they missed out on their enjoyment of the site.

Got to watch out for those blozzards.
 

Yo Momma

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Where ya stand depends on where ya sit. If you are a healthcare provider or medical professional in the mtns, you are likely only here for the skiing - there's not much else here & its the reason you can't recruit here. Ask @Yo Momma ; you expect to have tradeoffs, but you live in the mountains.
So, now that you moved there, no one else can? ;) I remember when my in-laws moved there, unless you were 3-4th generation, you were still not a local.
Exactly! There's NOTHING to do up here in Vermont! Boring as Hell ... Everyone stay away!!!!! Especially "Flatlanders"! Wait!?!? I think I'm still a Flatlander!?!?! OH NO!

If I answer the 3 questions can I stay?


On a more serious note I haven't read through this thread enough to comment but I was just having a conversation w/ one of the other Docs at the practice who had just spoken to the Vermont State Dental Society about recruitment in this remote area. This is a tough multifaceted problem that has remained at the forefront since I can remember. Professional Student Loan reimbursement is the only path I see that has the potential to increase recruitment but has to be viewed not as an "expenditure" but as an "investment" in the future of Vermont. It's an expensive investment that does not have much real financial support because of the high cost. Reconciling that cost has been the primary block to that strategic initiative.
 
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mikel

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A-basin should be sued next. I never used my A-basin season pass, and they didn't do anything to compensate me and other pass holders.

The unconscionable thing A-basin did when they reopened in May was to sell day tickets, while pass holders only had access through a lottery. I never won the lottery, so couldn't use my pass, while A-basin was taking money for day tickets.

Funny how Al's blog stopped taking comments around then. Maybe Al can chime in here.

Totally forgot about all that. We never won the lottery either. Every day we waited to submit our entry as soon as possible and every day was they same. No luck. I'm pretty sure there were people on here that got selected multiple times! I believe @ski otter 2 did.

Not sure I understand the Alterra and blockade stuff.

I do remember the day we got shut down like it was yesterday. I had no clue what was going and I worked that day! I think the 1st I heard about it was from members on here. We never got the official email until around 9:30 that night.
 
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KingGrump

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There were a lot bigger things happening than the ski resorts closing on 03/15/2020. It was a tough go for all regardless where one is domiciled.

In NYC, the incessant siren in the distance 24/7 is a constant eerie reminder of on going pandemic. Along with the long ER lines and multiple parked freezer trailers being used as temporary morgues at the local hospitals. In light of what was happening, the loss of few ski days is insignificant.
 

James

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That’s pretty much just some marketing $. Businesses might get some help.

Covid, no vaccine, school from home/work from home was the greatest incentive ever.
But even with that, it’s a very uneven distribution where people go and not really lots of business creators.

There’s a reason Quiros and Stenger convinced people and scammed in the NW Kingdom of VT. Jay Peak, Burke, a Biotech Center in Newport! Scientists flocking from Boston! Yeah, right.
 

Johnny V.

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BFD, looks like my wife and I get a $20.00 credit or a 20% one day ticket voucher. We got 5 days on the pass that year, but who's fault is it that we didn't use it more before the shutdown?
 

ZeeJM

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So it looks like I'm eligible to get a $10 credit (is that US or CAD?) Woo Hoo!!! I can afford to split a hamburger with someone!!
I went for the 20% voucher (I got in at least 10 days before March 2020). I'm gambling the 20% off a single day ticket will be worth more than $10 and I have friends who are Ikon-less skiers.
 

Wilhelmson

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In NYC, the incessant siren in the distance 24/7 is a constant eerie reminder of on going pandemic
We got an awesome hotel room in NYC last month with a big private deck 32 stories up in Midtown. The downside was that It was only a king bed. My wife and daughter slept on the bed and I slept on a patio couch outside with a bath towel as a blanket. I actually slept very well.

But yeah even though I had a peaceful sleep, the city was back to its edgier side and dang if the whole place doesn’t smell like a Bob Marley concert.
 

Andy Mink

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I still don't understand why Alterra is getting sued. It's not like they, or Epic, or any of the independent areas, made the call to shut down. That came from governors and local governments not only for brick and mortar entities but ski areas as well. Would people be complaining and asking for $$ back on an unused pass if they figured on skiing Mammoth for 10 days in June but the snow melted by the end of May? Ikon and other passes sell on the basis of opportunity. Areas covered by Ikon were open for the most part starting in November or December. The OPPORTUNITY for everyone with a pass to ski was provided by Ikon/Alterra.

Whether people chose to wait (ski Mammoth in June) or hit up the first chair on the first day is up to the individual. @AKMINK got 2 days on her Ikon last season due to injury. That's not Ikon's fault any more than the Covid shutdown was. She *could* have skied at one of the local Ikon areas before the Gathering but chose not too. Again, not on Ikon.

I get the angst but I believe people's blame is falling on the wrong entity. The pass is for the ski season. In 2020 the season happened to end in early March through no fault of Alterra/Ikon.
 

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