Gotta love Surface Lifts!

[Danny]

What does the nutcracker thing do? Looks like a standard rope tow.

It's steeper than a lot of rope tows, so it would be hard to hold on without a handle. Plus the rope you are holding goes over a pulley (which ends up being an inch or so from your hand as you hold the nutcracker, unless you chicken out and pull the rope off the pulley). The whole thing is pretty minimal, much less infrastructure than a standard T-Bar or something like the Haul rope at Alta. You could probably install one in a few weeks.

 

[tomahawkins]

Why T-Bars are Trending Again

Seventy percent of the 1,277 T-Bars, J-Bars and platter (sometimes called Poma) lifts built in North America to date are no longer in service. That would suggest the traditional surface lift …

liftblog.com

 

[wooglin]

Why T-Bars are Trending Again

Seventy percent of the 1,277 T-Bars, J-Bars and platter (sometimes called Poma) lifts built in North America to date are no longer in service. That would suggest the traditional surface lift …

liftblog.com

Racing and freestyle training are exactly why my local bump is trying to fund another surface lift. It will access the Thursday Night Race League start house and the top of the freestyle park, two of the bigger money makers for the mountain. Should've done that with the first surface lift, but didn't.

 

[PinnacleJim]

I looked up the data on the former Red Poma at Okemo. Vertical was 1565 feet and it was over 6100 feet long. It was the only way to get to the top when I first skied Okemo. Your legs were tired before you started a run.

 

[tball]

Why T-Bars are Trending Again

Seventy percent of the 1,277 T-Bars, J-Bars and platter (sometimes called Poma) lifts built in North America to date are no longer in service. That would suggest the traditional surface lift …

liftblog.com

Thanks for the link to @Lift Blog's article. It mentions:

"They can be operated with only one attendant using a video camera at one end."

Has anyone seen only one attendant elsewhere? I've never seen it and wondering how common it is. That would be a substantial cost savings long term.

 

[Jim Kenney]

Thanks for the link to @Lift Blog's article. It mentions:

"They can be operated with only one attendant using a video camera at one end."

Has anyone seen only one attendant elsewhere? I've never seen it and wondering how common it is. That would be a substantial cost savings long term.

I don't remember an attendant at the top of Lake Louise t-bar, but I might be mistaken. I guess it's a moot point though if that t-bar has been replaced by a recent quad chair??

 

[tomahawkins]

I don't remember an attendant at the top of Lake Louise t-bar, but I might be mistaken. I guess it's a moot point though if that t-bar has been replaced by a recent quad chair??

View attachment 188498

I think it’s pretty common not to have an attendant. Lifts that come to mind: sun peaks platters, maybe their t-bar, Ski Cooper t-bar (Last Chance). In fact I’ve seen a couple instances when someone (I’m not saying who) didn’t let go to the bar in time and cut the emergency shutoff line. No one was there to reconnect and restart.

It seems like if a second attendant is needed you also need someone watching the whole track and to my knowledge no area does that. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[scott43]

I think it’s pretty common not to have an attendant. Lifts that come to mind: sun peaks platters, maybe their t-bar, Ski Cooper t-bar (Last Chance). In fact I’ve seen a couple instances when someone (I’m not saying who) didn’t let go to the bar in time and cut the emergency shutoff line. No one was there to reconnect and restart.

It seems like if a second attendant is needed you also need someone watching the whole track and to my knowledge no area does that. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Did that cut-off type leave a mark on you??

 

[tomahawkins]

Thanks for the link to @Lift Blog's article. It mentions:

"They can be operated with only one attendant using a video camera at one end."

Has anyone seen only one attendant elsewhere? I've never seen it and wondering how common it is. That would be a substantial cost savings long term.

I could be wrong here, but I bet other costs savings come from not having to meet the same safety and availability requirements as an aerial lift. Less equipment, less maintenance. No need to extract riders if the lift breaks down.

 

[BLiP]

I absolutely hated rope tows as an instructor. Teaching beginners to get into parallel turns was easy compared to getting them up the tow. For the littlest kids, I’d just put them between my legs – that strategy didn’t work so well with teens/adults. I’d usually get them to the lift as quickly as possible.

For race training though, having access to a surface lift meant more laps through the course. Never a bad thing.

 

[tomahawkins]

Did that cut-off type leave a mark on you??

A long time ago, a bunch of us kids thought the t-bar would make an excellent grappling hook. So one of us -- again, I'm not saying who -- held onto it and gave it a good swing, and sure enough it did.

 

[Novaloafah]

This thread gives me nostalgia as surface lifts were much more common when I started skiing in the late 1960s. Although, even back then they were mostly seen at beginner areas rather than on the main hill. The one and only time I skied Mont Sainte Anne in Quebec was for a couple days in April 2008. I rode a t-bar there that has close to 1000 feet vertical. Believe it's still in use.

In 2018 I had one of my most ignominious surface lift moments while skiing at beautiful Lake Louise. I was finishing a ride up the summit poma lift and let go of the platter. As I slowly headed toward the left I got whacked in the head hard by a platter after it had rounded the bull wheel and started heading back down the hill. Don't know why it was so low, the platter should have retracted and been twenty feet in the air by then, maybe a frozen spring? Stunned me and I barely stayed on my feet. Fortunately I had on a helmet, but still got a small bruise on forehead that wife noticed later. The helmet took a noticeable dent. If the platter had struck me a few inches further towards the front of my face and hit flesh it could have been a much more painful situation.
View attachment 188484

PS: here's a 2019 photo I snapped over my shoulder of Tricia and friend while we're all riding on the Horseshoe Bowl t-bar at Breck:
View attachment 188486

Added: here's a photo I took of my son catching the Mont Sainte Anne t-bar in 2008, 1000' vertical rise:
View attachment 188497

It's still there or at least it looks the same as the one i rode a few years ago at MSA. La Corde Raide is the only way to lap a few runs on the North East side. Nice little runs but the ride up had some surprising little humps that could screw you up if you weren't paying attention

 

[Ken_R]

It's bad enough that chairlifts aren't designed for a snowboarder stance. I can't imagine how much harder it would be for them to ride a T-Bar. Does the wood plank dig in their hip?

Thats their problem hehehe. I avoid riding with boarders on lifts. Even if they are my friends.

 

[Ken_R]

Why T-Bars are Trending Again

Seventy percent of the 1,277 T-Bars, J-Bars and platter (sometimes called Poma) lifts built in North America to date are no longer in service. That would suggest the traditional surface lift …

liftblog.com

Yes yesss

 

[crgildart]

Thats their problem hehehe. I avoid riding with boarders on lifts. Even if they are my friends.

Ya it was a boarder that went bowling in the OP video.. They were clearly having trouble due to the configuration that got worse as they got tired near the top.

As for rope tows.. What I remember was they were really the best option except for the part right as you go over the crest at the top where you have to lift the rope and carry the weight of it.. Or let go and risk not having enough momentum to get past the exit area. That's where all the pile ups happened on the non beginner ones.

Beginners ones people just get pulled off their skis grabbing on at the bottom;

 

[Teppaz]

I've watched this epic fail on the Alta rope more times than I should admit, and I've laughed each one of them.

 

[PinnacleJim]

Killington opened in 1958 with 3 pomas. Two on Snowdon to get to the top and one in the Glades (now called North Ridge). The upper Snowdon poma was used in it's original location along Upper Bunny Buster until it was moved to Ramshead when the fixed grip quad was replaced with the Bubble 6-pack. Killington used to joke that poma was the oldest detachable lift in Vermont.

 

[dbostedo]

Why T-Bars are Trending Again

Seventy percent of the 1,277 T-Bars, J-Bars and platter (sometimes called Poma) lifts built in North America to date are no longer in service. That would suggest the traditional surface lift …

liftblog.com

Note I found really interesting in the article:

"...every T-Bar built since 2011 can move at least 550 feet per minute, significantly faster than most fixed-grip chairlifts."

Without thinking, I would have guessed that they were slower than most fixed grip chairlifts. Though I have been on some VERY slow fixed grip lifts where I think I could have walked faster, and a poma/button/platter lift would have been preferred.

 

[Sibhusky]

We still have 2 T-bars here. One that runs weekends to convey you to the top of some tree sking (with a few really easy groomer alternatives) and another for the racers. I actually haven't seen that in use for awhile, I think it only runs for night training.

I ride the thing ALONE unless I'm with Slow Obstacle. (Epic guy).

 

[James]

Has anyone seen only one attendant elsewhere?

Not in the US, but Europe, I think so.
I’ve been on ones where theres a stop light and when green you go, tripping a wand which releases the poma pole.

Decades ago in Tignes, well before the US had electronic tickets, there was a poma well above tree line I remember. You scanned your ticket and went through. All automatic. There might have been someone there, but they didn’t come out.

Note I found really interesting in the article:

"...every T-Bar built since 2011 can move at least 550 feet per minute, significantly faster than most fixed-grip chairlifts."

Without thinking, I would have guessed that they were slower than most fixed grip chairlifts. Though I have been on some VERY slow fixed grip lifts where I think I could have walked faster, and a poma/button/platter lift would have been preferred.

It all depends on users, operators, maybe line management. That affects how much a lift stops. With a quad chair, you’ve got 2-4x the opportunity for someone to screw up, stopping the lift.

I’ve seen people hold on a t bar being dragged on the ground for 50yards.