• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

GS FIS, Masters or something else?

IVC

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Posts
31
Location
Temecula, CA
TL;DR Looking for a good versatile ski for higher speeds to augment SL skis.

Long Version below:

My go-to skis are Nordica Dobermanns SL FIS (a few years old) and I really like them. I use them as all mountain skis and don't hesitate to take them to any terrain I find, but they get tiring in softer snow or on very steep moguls. Also, I don't dare lay them flat at any significant speed as they'll "chatter." Instead, I'll always keep them ever so slightly on the edge no matter how fast I go (I pushed them to about 60 mph) - they are extremely well behaved and a joy at any speed as long as they are not flat on the snow.

My previous skis are Salomon X-Wing Tornado, probably some 15 years old, that handle really well on any terrain. They bite a bit less on very hard snow than Dobermanns, but they also don't mind being flat at speed. I really like these skis too and find them similar (enough) to Dobermanns that I don't notice much difference most of the time - maybe Dobermanns roll a bit faster and hold the turn better on ice, but it's hard to tell outside really icy slope or a race course. I normally roll skis edge to edge so if there is a slight delay it's not much of a difference for general cruising.

A few years back I got a second pair of FIS skis, Head SG. I thought (quite incorrectly) that SL skis would be nicely offset with SG, skipping the GS in between. Well, I was totally wrong. These skis are awesome for what they are designed for, but very little else. For general purpose skiing, they handle like my very old Rossignol 7S planks that require some amount of tail skidding for any shorter radius turns (80's are calling). Where they shine is very long radius turns (doh!) which doesn't work well both because of how slopes get destroyed throughout the day and the number of people on them. Over the years I would take these skis out for half a day, realize all I can do is point them down and play "avoid the pylons" game, do a few DH sections just to see how fast it will go, then revert back to other skis. These skis are a total write-off unless I actually race them (which is unlikely), lesson learned.

So, I'm looking at getting a pair of skis that I initially thought SG would do - support higher speeds, no chatter when laid flat, versatility to take them (force them) anywhere. I understand they won't be optimal for off-course, but I don't mind it as long as they are different enough from SL skis. What type of GS ski should I look at (FIS vs. smaller radius) and are they going to feel different enough from SL to be worth lugging around? My concern is that they might be either too similar to the SL skis, or they might be too specialized and feel like old school planks at lower speeds. I'm not a gear junky, so I haven't followed the technology too much. Any help is appreciated.
 

Brian Finch

Privateer Skier @ www.SkiWithaGrimRipper.com
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
3,390
Location
Vermont
I think that a SG in any quiver is quite impressive. How about a 188cm Women’s 27.5 meter GS ski? When I want to go fast, but not on a closed hill with B netting fast, that’s my ski.

Welcome & let us know what you land on!
 

anders_nor

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Posts
2,622
Location
on snow
188/27 is still fun at 40-50-60-70mph huuuuge step up from SL

SG FIS and DH are a serious bit of kit.
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,684
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
I can relate. I have a 13 m near-FIS SL, antique SG Skis (great for long turns above 50 mph) and a few bargains to try and fill the gap. You need a GS ski. A mid twenties cheater GS will work fine, but a full-on GS will hit the mark.
Please stop skiing 60 mph on sl skis. If the unlucky combination of tipping, weighting and surface irregularity should strike, those skis will dig in and it won't be a good time.
 

DocGKR

Stuck at work...
Skier
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Posts
1,699
Location
Palo Alto, California
The 185 Nordica GSR RB FDT (20.5m radius) would be an outstanding companion to a Nordica FIS SL for receational sport carving. Something like the Nordica 188/25m or Rossi/Dynastar 185/27m Junior GS skis would also be good, but a bit less versatile outside of gates.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,967
My concern is that they might be either too similar to the SL skis, or they might be too specialized and feel like old school planks at lower speeds.
Don’t worry about that. Night and day to a slalom and a straight ski. A 185 will be a fun screamer.
 

Tony Storaro

Glorified Tobogganer
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Mar 2, 2020
Posts
7,869
Location
Europe
If you’re doing this you are not making slalom turns. Skiing absurdly outside the envelope of your skis design is an unmistakable indication of a low skill level.



Reilly will be devastated but it was about time someone brought the hard truth to him.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,967
^ Don’t get the point. People skied almost like that on straight skis.
It’s not doing super-g turns on slalom skis.
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
1,973
Location
The Netherlands
In ski instructor land here in Europe (at least in Austria and Italy), a cheater GS shape (<70 mm ski, R18-21 @180) with a race plate is more or less the standard for all purposes (quick skidded short turns, longer carved turns, moguls). Something like the Head Worldcup Rebels e-Speed Pro, let's say. My point: they're considered to be the most versatile skis.

If you want to go even faster, FIS GS skis (188/R27 or something similar) are the ticket. One rally gets to ski that kind of ski to the fullest extent, though. Crowded runs are the limiting factor, in most cases.
 

Tony Storaro

Glorified Tobogganer
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Mar 2, 2020
Posts
7,869
Location
Europe
^ Don’t get the point. People skied almost like that on straight skis.
It’s not doing super-g turns on slalom skis.

If that isnt absurdly out of the envelope for 188/27m ski I do not know what is. Or does the statement go one way only and only applies to SL skis?
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
1,973
Location
The Netherlands
I do think that with a 188/R27 GS ski one can ski short turns (be it mostly skidded), whereas with a 165/R13 SL ski skiing long turns is not as evident. So yes, It goes one way, if you want to put it black-and-white.
 

Tony Storaro

Glorified Tobogganer
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Mar 2, 2020
Posts
7,869
Location
Europe
I do think that with a 188/R27 GS ski one can ski short turns (be it mostly skidded), whereas with a 165/R13 SL ski skiing long turns is not as evident. So yes, It goes one way, if you want to put it black-and-white.

OK, got it-you ski SL skis at SG turns at speed-you lack skills, you skid and sideslip around FIs GS ski in very short turns, that´s ok and you are an expert. Clear.
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
1,973
Location
The Netherlands
Don't get your knickers in a twist, please. I do think that skiing long-radius skis in shorter turns is more doable and more stable than trying to ski high-speed long turns on very short-radius skis. I am by no means an expert. And that might just be the thing: since I can't handle those very short, very high-frequency carved turns, I am more comfortable on the longer radius skis skidding shorter turns. For me, SL skis on longer turns feel more twitchy and less stable than long-radius skis in short turns.

Judging from the prescribed training and exam material at most Austrian and Italian instructor courses, I am confident in saying they agree with me on this. But hey, they are just ski instructor trainers.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,332
Location
NYC
you ski SL skis at SG turns at speed-you lack skills,

From my experience, when someone tells me he/she is a good skiers since they ski fast. My brain simply translates that into " You actually suck. You just don't know it... ". Haven't been wrong yet.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,967
If that isnt absurdly out of the envelope for 188/27m ski I do not know what is. Or does the statement go one way only and only applies to SL skis?
It’s doing 60mph on a 12m ski.
I don’t get the low skill thing, one can go fast with low skill on anything. It’s proven most often with wide long skis these days.

Everyone used to ski on 40-70m skis. Where is this thing about arcing every single turn? They don’t even do that on the wcup.

Spend some time on a straight ski. The radius is likely to be longer than an fis downhill ski these days. (50m)
 

Paul Lutes

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Posts
2,727
Let's put the 60 mph thing to bed. Are the people that can ski a 165 FIS SL at that speed? Maybe ... for a few turns; but they're such outliers that they can't be part of any general discussion. Given a choice, even those rare phreaks wouldn't chose to do so; they may be crazy but they're not stupid. And speed is far from the most critical element - it needs to be applied at the right time/place, in combination with control, focus, proper line, etc. Any one who emphasizes speed only is a hoser.
 

DocGKR

Stuck at work...
Skier
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Posts
1,699
Location
Palo Alto, California
Speed only matters if you are doing it over a sustained distance, while making multiple appropriate turns, and getting timed....

As I noted previously, compare a modern GS ski with a early 1980's one; for example, the 188 cm Head Womens FIS GS (101mm/65mm/82mm) with a 30m turn radius vs. a 210cm Kastle National Team GS (88mm/68mm/78mm) with a 52m turn radius, as determined by the FIS ski radius calculator (http://member.fis-ski.com/skicalc.htm). The old GS ski is more akin to a modern SG or DH ski.

Old and new GS Skis.png
 

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
2,929
Location
Front Range, Colorado
Except the flex and performance of those old GS straight skis made them dynamite at what they were made for: fast, stable GS turns.
And for those who were used to them, either in gates or recreationally - or both - those things were great, and versatile. Many used them
as daily drivers, and rightly so.
(And at the same time, current skis are an improvement in almost all ways.)
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,684
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
The truth is there is no real correlation between speed and skill, beyond a minimum level required. Because you can ski fast does not mean you are skilled, but it does not mean you are not skilled. Being able to ski faster on a set set of turns is related to skill.
Smearing turns smaller than a ski was designed for at slower speeds than a ski was designed for is a lot safer than skiing a ski at high speed in turns longer than the ski was designed for.
Some folk just like to ski fast regardless of skill. Some of these folk have no idea how good at making it even more dangerous their chosen ski is.
Skiing fast is like riding a motorcycle at 180 mph. Skiing a sl fast is like riding a kid's tricycle at 180 mph (or at least a short wheel base, 16 inch front wheeled bike with little rake and trail and no steering damper).
 

Sponsor

Staff online

  • Andy Mink
    Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
Top