GS FIS, Masters or something else?

[Brian Finch]

"the Curve" seriously kicked my ass & I'm not sure who it was built for

 

[Ivan]

Probably in the 25-30m 185-195 range anyway.

I'm too lazy to listen to this podcast again, but at some point in his interview below, Filip Zubcic said that he always uses 198cm skis in GS. Not sure about the radius, but I think it might very well be above 30m.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[DocGKR]

Many of the WC men are currently using skis labeled 193/30m, but the skis are actually longer length (195-198) and a bit bigger turn radius of around 32m.

 

[DocGKR]

Hmmmm....the 185/19.4 Stockli Laser GS is a fantastically versatile and fun sport carving ski--one of the best in fact, but it is not the most stable at speed compared to other similar models: 185/20.5m Nordica GSR RB >185/19m Head Rebel e-Speed>182/19m Atomic Redster Revo RS GS G9>185/19.4m Stockli Laser GS>182/19m Rossi Hero Elite LT Ti.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I'm not going to comment on what is the best ski on to comment on what to expect of SL's and GS skis.

FIS SL's predictable and pleasant depending on on stiffness and skiers strength and ability.

FIS GS well these are fun but skiing without authority they will punish you as they need control.

Both of my skis are very aggressively tuned 0.5/4, skied well I can do anything on them, skied sloppy well they will punish me.

Now finally, go look up some of @ScotsSkier comments on skis and recommendations over the years. No BS answers or fluff, just the true cold hard facts. What is interesting if you know @ScotsSkier long enough, he's been consistently posting the same information only with adjustment to model year of skis.

 

[James]

I'm too lazy to listen to this podcast again, but at some point in his interview below, Filip Zubcic said that he always uses 198cm skis in GS. Not sure about the radius, but I think it might very well be above 30m.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Thinking 1998 was probably about 198cm and in the 34m range, but don’t know.

 

[IVC]

Thanks everyone!

Looking around at the end of year sales, I found a few that would likely work:

- 2024 Atomic Redster G9 REVO RS GS, 183/24, $800
- 2023 Fischer RC4 WC MASTERS GS, 189/27.6, $700
- 2023 Nordica Dobermann GSR RB FDT, 180/19.5 w/bindings, $700.

Others are either sold out or don't match criteria recommended the most in this thread (non-FIS, Masters, smaller radius, etc.) Nordicas are a bit shorter and with quite a bit smaller radius, but they are also at half the price and include the bindings. The other two don't. (Price is not the primary consideration, but it is a consideration, I wouldn't go "used" route at this time.)

I'm leaning towards Atomics simply because they are a bit smaller and the general consensus tends to be that it's better to err on the shorter, rounder side. Maybe even Nordicas. I'm not a brand-snob, so it's about functionality. Thoughts on these? Any other models or suggested online retailers to look at?

 

[François Pugh]

Well if you go with the Nordica's at least you have the family resemblance, and they should be fine for speeds most of the folk condone here.

Full disclosure: I'm in the minority. This is the minority dissenting opinion.

If you ARE going to be trying to make clean carved turns at high speed you need a longer radius ski. The shorter radius ones, although much safer than a SL ski will never, I repeat, never be able to make a clean carved turn at high speed, because the radius of that high speed turn, even at 3 Gs is too big. You will be ripping a partly smeared turn. Most folk don't care about that, because even though some of them may ski fast, most do so without carving very clean turns. They also think it is impossible to carve clean arc-2-arc turns with long radius skis, because they could never do it and think you can't do it either, so they see no need for a longer radius ski.

The few that do understand the physics, don't want you skiing that fast on public slopes (with few exceptions). They are the same people who would say an Aprilia RSV4, Ducatti Panagali, or even a little ( ) GSX-R750 doesn't belong on a public road. Me, I don't judge. Ski (or ride) whatever and however you want, so long as you don't run over people. Call the tune pay the piper, freedom, responsibility and all that.

I also agree, if you are doing Master's racing and need to get around those gates and bend the ski, but don't have FIS-level skills, the Womens version GS skis will make life a lot easier for you, and give you better times. On the other hand if you're just going to make SG turns with your GS skis out of the gates, that doesn't much matter. Just don't be making GS turns at GS speeds on your SLs; the SLs may just dig in and send you for a loop into a tree - the tree being the last thing you see while still alive.
Edit: out of the three you listed, I would pick the Fischer.

 

[James]

Well you could get this Nordica 188/30 for $225 Then get a baseline.

SkiEssentials

www.skiessentials.com

 

[oldschoolskier]

Atomics, large enough R to get into race speeds, small enough R that you can get away slower speeds, you just gotta work it.

Just remember speed hides errors, slower speed magnifies them, besides frustration it will make you a better skier.

 

[IVC]

Well you could get this Nordica 188/30 for $225 Then get a baseline.

That seems like "too good to be true" type of a deal. Is this because it's models from a few years back, are those demos, is the company legit? It's hard to believe they would sell the skis and binding for less than new bindings alone would cost...

 

[anders_nor]

welcome to the world of raceskis! everyone gets 3 new pairs of each type each year, and they are CHEAP when overstocked and a few years old!

we get club discount on new skis, which is pretty darn good, talking "summer %" discounts all year basicly

company is definetly legit!

 

[James]

That seems like "too good to be true" type of a deal. Is this because it's models from a few years back, are those demos, is the company legit? It's hard to believe they would sell the skis and binding for less than new bindings alone would cost...

Ski Essentials is totally legit. They post here all the time. You probably want the 18’s unless you have a Din under 8. But the race guys can chime in.

I think 180 is too short, I have the Rossi Masters in 180. “GS” skis are in an odd place. I agree with @anders_nor that the larger sidecuts and shorter lengths everything seems to be moving too is the wrong direction for long fast turns.

The 185 Nordica/20.5 m or the 183/24 Atomic I guess in that genre.

But for general skiing, makes sense. The fis race gs skis are pretty specialized. The Masters gs for freeskiing might make the most sense since they’re wider.
The Fischer 189/27.6 “>68mm”( it’s probably just a 188, but to avoid confusion, call it 189)
183cm/23.4 is the next size down.

Hmmmm....the 185/19.4 Stockli Laser GS is a fantastically versatile and fun sport carving ski--one of the best in fact, but it is not the most stable at speed compared to other similar models: 185/20.5m Nordica GSR RB >185/19m Head Rebel e-Speed>182/19m Atomic Redster Revo RS GS G9>185/19.4m Stockli Laser GS>182/19m Rossi Hero Elite LT Ti.

You try the 183/24m Atomic?

 

[S.H.]

That seems like "too good to be true" type of a deal. Is this because it's models from a few years back, are those demos, is the company legit? It's hard to believe they would sell the skis and binding for less than new bindings alone would cost...

once a race ski is >1 year old, it's basically garbage to a retailer. These are 4 years old.

 

[Tony Storaro]

That seems like "too good to be true" type of a deal. Is this because it's models from a few years back, are those demos, is the company legit? It's hard to believe they would sell the skis and binding for less than new bindings alone would cost...

The legit-est legit you can imagine. @SkiEssentials are the legends Jeff and Bob after all.

 

[DocGKR]

"You try the 183/24m Atomic?"

Yes, I have a pair with X19Var bindings. Super fun, easy turn initiation, good for free-skiing, OK in the course, but a bit wide--most Masters racers around here who try these in gates eventually switch to a narrower 65mm Junior or women's FIS GS ski in order to be competitive.

IVC--given your reported height and weight, go with something below 70mm width and longer than 180cm length if you really want to arc high speed carved turns. Both the 185 Nordica/20.5 m or the 183/24 Atomic are good options (I have used and owned both skis)--both are the lowest end skis possible for Masters GS racing, but can still be relatively easily free skied. If you want to move up to something a bit more aggressive and stable at speed, then get a U16 Junior GS ski of 65mm width and 185-188 length with a 25-27m turn radius--for an adult male, the Rossi/Dynaster 185/27m is likely the most fun to free ski in this category, but these are real race skis, primarily intended for use in gates. The next step up in high speed capability is a women's FIS GS 188/30m--not as much fun to free ski, but can really rip long arcing turns at dramatically high speeds on hard surfaces. The men's 193/30 FIS GS are a whole lot harder to ski well....

 

[Tony S]

All this talk makes me wish I'd busted out the GS skis before the end of the season. Next year!

 

[DocGKR]

Still a lot of season left here.....in fact snow is falling at the top of the former Squaw Valley right now.

 

[IVC]

Contacted Ski Essentials to see which skis they have with sub-30 radius. It seems to be the best route to get a few years old skis at a large discount based on what I'm looking for - I'll be keeping them for years anyways, so they'll be "a few years old" soon enough anyways.

 

[IVC]

Then get a baseline.

I noticed they sell a "baseline" for $200. What is it? Description says "no waxing in the future," but I've seen a lot of "no waxing" with car and motorcycle products and it usually isn't...