• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

focker

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
1,177
Just pondering something. How do you racers feel about the need to warm up vs potentially slowing down your skis by taking too many runs on the fresh wax?

I spend a ton of time waxing each week, but I can feel my skis get a bit slower after every run. I've been leaning more towards less warm up runs lately to try and preserve them as much as possible.
 
Thread Starter
TS
focker

focker

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
1,177
Realistically, the likelihood that your wax is going to make as much difference as your skiing is slim to none. Warm up but not until the point you're wearing out. Inspect the course carefully. Stop worrying about your wax.

Good point. I need any advantage I can get lol. Now if my starts didn't suck so badly...
 

hbear

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
890
A proper warm up combined with good inspection are infinitely more valuable than any wax wear.

However if it is that critical, a second set of skis with a fresh wax/overlay can be left at the start. I caveat this that any wax advantage gained by this is likely to be wasted due to technique somewhere on the course. :)
 
Last edited:

sparty

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Posts
1,005
A proper warm up combined with good inspection are infinitely more valuable than any wax wear.

However if it is that critical, a second set of skis with a fresh wax/overlay can be left at the start. I caveat this that any wax advantage gained by this is likely to be wasted due to technique somewhere on the course. :)

Well, yes, but my technique is going to suck just as badly regardless of whether or not I have fresh wax.

Note that leaving a fully prepped pair of skis at the start may result in ridicule if done for beer-league racing. When I was fairly serious about maximizing my performance in Killington's locals series, my habit was to ride the K-1 and use the run from the top of the lift down to the race start (near the bottom of Highline) as a warm-up run. If my skiing didn't feel like it was at 100% during that run, and time allowed for it, I'd head back up Snowdon and take a second run. I also had a fairly well-defined start routine in terms of stretching/warm up. I never did resort to carrying skis to the start, but one of the fastest guys often did (that was a line that I, personally, wasn't willing to cross for beer league).

Is that a bit much for a locals series? Probably, but we had a handful of guys who were regularly within a few tenths. There were a couple who usually led the grouping, but if they had an off day (or just didn't show up on a given Wednesday), one of the rest of us could sneak up to the top. If you care about hundredths because they make a difference in placement, it's probably worth worrying about wax. If you're more concerned with whole seconds, having waxed something reasonably close is going to matter a lot more than exactly how many runs (or how many brush strokes) go into your prep routine.
 

Johnny V.

Half Fast Hobby Racer
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
1,427
Location
Finger Lakes/Rochester NY
Probably ridiculous, but I use two pairs on race days-one older pair for warm ups and inspection and one pair to race on. Routine is: warm up and inspect on the "inspection pair" then change and go to the start with the race pair. I figure the run to the start does the final polishing for the race. I've carried a pair up to the start in the past-given my mediocre at best talent level, it's WAY overkill..................
 

ejj

Prairie Skier
Skier
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Posts
300
Location
Minneapolis
As long as your skis have been tuned the night before, you are fine. Most people benefit from working on their starts--especially as many courses in the Midwest are relatively flat at the start.
 
Thread Starter
TS
focker

focker

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
1,177
As long as your skis have been tuned the night before, you are fine. Most people benefit from working on their starts--especially as many courses in the Midwest are relatively flat at the start.

Agreed. My start is what's costing my points right now big time. As a bigger guy it's hard to get moving out of gate..
 

hbear

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
890
As the saying goes, there are 2 races when you run.
The race to the first gate, and from the 1st gate to the finish.
Typically the one that wins the first race, wins the second.
 

Speeder

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Posts
66
A proper warm up combined with good inspection are infinitely more valuable than any wax wear.

However if it is that critical, a second set of skis with a fresh wax/overlay can be left at the start. I caveat this that any wax advantage gained by this is likely to be wasted due to technique somewhere on the course. :)
A great answer. I'd like to add that we will make mistakes and cost ourselves time on course no matter what. If you lost a place by 0.10 seconds and didn't use the fastest wax that you have then in my opinion you gave that place away.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,630
Location
Maine
As a bigger guy it's hard to get moving out of gate..

Really? I question that. As a little guy, my unscientific but consistent observation is that in a dual course the big skiers are always ahead of me by the second gate, even if they're slower by the finish. It ticks me off. For that matter, when free skiing same thing: Push of and that dude is GONE. WTF? :)
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,630
Location
Maine
Just pondering something. How do you racers feel about the need to warm up vs potentially slowing down your skis by taking too many runs on the fresh wax?

I spend a ton of time waxing each week, but I can feel my skis get a bit slower after every run. I've been leaning more towards less warm up runs lately to try and preserve them as much as possible.

I actually think the wax sometimes matters. Every little bit helps. The really fast skiers are going to beat you. And the crappy skiers aren't. But if you are in the 70th - 90th percentile like me, you can move from 75th to 80th with wax, if your competitors aren't bothering.
 

ScotsSkier

USSA Coach
Industry Insider
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
3,150
Location
North Lake Tahoe, NV
2 options.

1 take your race pair to the start (best option!)

or

2 Dont brush your skis, just lightly scrape, do your warm up runs, THEN brush out properly.

Does it matter? If you are reasonably competitive... YES! You will always make mistakes but use every advantage you can to minimize loss of time

An example: Last year in a FIS SG, one of my athletes broke a binding after the first race ( 2 races same day) so I gave him my trainer/warm up pair to use and I did the inspection/warm up for the second race on my race ski (which had been waxed and brushed to do 2 runs max) I missed the podium by .02...... who knows??!!....but the good news was that my athlete won his class....kind of funny in some ways as he was 75 y/o, 100# soaking wet....and my 205/40 SGs had X20 bindings with a DIN range starting at 12... :ogbiggrin: I was pretty thankful he didn't crash....
 
Last edited:

pchewn

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
2,607
Location
Beaverton OR USA
Realistically, the likelihood that your wax is going to make as much difference as your skiing is slim to none. Warm up but not until the point you're wearing out. Inspect the course carefully. Stop worrying about your wax.

At my age the time to warm up is ALMOST the same time to wear out. The times have been approaching each other every year.

I fear that by the time I'm 75 I'll be worn out even before starting to warm up ......
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
Industry Insider
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,604
Location
PNW aka SEA
Well, yes, but my technique is going to suck just as badly regardless of whether or not I have fresh wax.

Note that leaving a fully prepped pair of skis at the start may result in ridicule if done for beer-league racing. When I was fairly serious about maximizing my performance in Killington's locals series, my habit was to ride the K-1 and use the run from the top of the lift down to the race start (near the bottom of Highline) as a warm-up run. If my skiing didn't feel like it was at 100% during that run, and time allowed for it, I'd head back up Snowdon and take a second run. I also had a fairly well-defined start routine in terms of stretching/warm up. I never did resort to carrying skis to the start, but one of the fastest guys often did (that was a line that I, personally, wasn't willing to cross for beer league).

Is that a bit much for a locals series? Probably, but we had a handful of guys who were regularly within a few tenths. There were a couple who usually led the grouping, but if they had an off day (or just didn't show up on a given Wednesday), one of the rest of us could sneak up to the top. If you care about hundredths because they make a difference in placement, it's probably worth worrying about wax. If you're more concerned with whole seconds, having waxed something reasonably close is going to matter a lot more than exactly how many runs (or how many brush strokes) go into your prep routine.

If your starts suck, you're knee capping yourself. Strength and flexibility/range of motion training* will do you more good than much of anything else. It's also amazing how few beer leaguers can effectively skate out of the start.

* a set of dumbbells are cheap and don't take up much space.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,630
Location
Maine
Really? I question that. As a little guy, my unscientific but consistent observation is that in a dual course the big skiers are always ahead of me by the second gate, even if they're slower by the finish. It ticks me off. For that matter, when free skiing same thing: Push of and that dude is GONE. WTF? :)

On reflection, I think what I am talking about are reasonably pitched starts. If it's flat, then it seems more even at the start, but then worse for me overall.
 

sparty

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Posts
1,005
If your starts suck, you're knee capping yourself. Strength and flexibility/range of motion training* will do you more good than much of anything else. It's also amazing how few beer leaguers can effectively skate out of the start.

* a set of dumbbells are cheap and don't take up much space.

Since you quoted me, I'll both agree and and say that my starts aren't great, they don't totally suck, either. When we did a start-training day with timing last year, I could beat most of the U16s and U19s when we started (most of them got a lot closer, and a few did beat me, by the end of the session). In many beer leagues, the hill is flat enough that the point made earlier—about the race to the first gate—is pretty important. Killington was a bit of an exception, but the start itself still matters.
 

hbear

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
890
I find with flatter starts/courses, the heavier skiers do have an advantage if all things are equal.
Nothing that can’t be overcome with good technique in the steeper sections however.
 

Johnny V.

Half Fast Hobby Racer
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
1,427
Location
Finger Lakes/Rochester NY
I'll take anything I can get, whether it's wax, better starts, better conditioning or a bunch of other things. I'll paraphrase the late Everett Dirkson "A hundi here, a hundi there, pretty soon you're talking about real time".
 

Sponsor

Staff online

  • Andy Mink
    Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
Top