gs skis but not for racing, what's on the market? and what would you buy?

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cloudymind

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yes marketing of the manufacturers is confusing and i understand that measures are just one aspect. probably the flex makes a big difference and the reason why i like head gs rd 25 more than the 27 (25 are also 4mm smaller on waist).
i see the masters being sold as more hard core than their sport carver counterpart, i don't need skis stiffer than the heads. atomic g9 in 21, 24 are probably worth a try, also kaestle juniors 22 meters would be or the augment but not as common as atomics are.

the rossi hero/dynastar is absolutely everywhere, don't know if this influenced my opinions. here everyone will tell you that you don't need skis >20m on piste, even the shops who sell them. the dynastar 19m last year was more expensive than the 25 with better wood was, and even difficult to get a pair.
this is why i'm curious about the elan gsx in 21meters.

last year I bought a pair of Fischer 25m 188cm Masters skis. So much fun and honestly a lot easier to ski than the Fischer RC4 CT was. You'd think it would be the other way around. RC4 RC is pretty sweet too.
interesting, are the ones marketed as masters?
last year i rented the ct4, they probably are very capable skis and i liked more than the head race just too carving machines but i would like to try a longer radius fischer if i can find one.
 

tube77

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Atomic G9
Head e-spped
Stockli laser GS
Fischer RC 4 CT
and etc..
 

Awalkspoiled

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That Head RD 25 meter ski was something special - I still have a pair and on a big hard-snow hill nothing else is as much fun. I agree with the consensus that you might as well stay with Head - the brand's feel is pretty distinctive, partly due to the weight and largely to do with the longitudinal flex progression which will carry over with some variation from year to year.
 

DocGKR

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For fun sport carving on-piste, I've had success with the Head Rebel e.Speed Pro 185/19m, Stockli Laser GS 185/19.4m, and Nordica GSR RB FDT 185/20.5m.

The wider (68-71mm), longer radius "GS" skis like the Atomic 183/24m, Augment/Van Deer 185/25m, Dynastar Rossi 183/21m, Head 183/25m are all OK, but a bit disappointing, as they are not quite as fun and maneuverable when zooming resort on-piste runs as the 18-20m sport carving skis nor are they as capable in the course, at speed, or on hard snow as a 65mm wide Junior or Masters FIS GS ski like the Atomic 187/26m, Augment/Van Deer 183/25m, Dynastar Rossi 185/27m, Head 186/25m, Nordica 188/25m, Stockli 184/25.5 or a true 30m FIS GS ski.
 
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crgildart

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I put a lot of laps on some GSRs. Good all around carver..
 

trailtrimmer

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If you can demo a Deacon 72 or the Volkl racetigers in a 19-21 meter, it may be a solid choice. They have a little tip rocker to speed initiation and deal with chopped up or inconsistent snow a little better than full on race skis, yet still have lots of grip and can hit some pretty insane speeds before they get noisy.

I love 25 meter skis for racing on hard prepared surfaces, but they are a little less fun on variable snow compared to the advanced frontside skis that simply stay a little more connected in chop and afternoon junk.
 

Peakviper

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I have had fun on my 2018 Volkl Racetiger GSR 178cm/23m/65mm “tweeners” for carving fast GS turns on empty weekday groomers. Compared to my old Volkl P60 race room (2004 (190/>21m, actual 26m) the 178s are much easier to initiate turns and to get early edge angle and I can link GS turns at 30-35 mph speed on groomed blue to black runs with fewer stivots needed for speed control. The P60s have greater ultimate edge hold but in comparison they feel like SuperG skis and I spend too much time throwing them sideways on steep groomers.
Shortcoming of the 178s: they feel a bit noodley for my 6’2” 210 lb, and after 60 days on them in fairly aggressive “recreational GS” mode, the right ski (my dominant side) has gained some tip rocker. (Or maybe I bent it when I released in an icy hole?) They are still skiable and fun—I only notice the right tip fluttering a bit on flats. But I couldn’t resist adding a pair of 2019 Racetiger GSR in 183/25m to my quiver this year. They are stiffer (and thicker) than the 178s so I hope to have found the sweet spot. I will report on them after Bogus opens.
 

François Pugh

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I have found, as a general rule that a 19 m turn radius is about the limit for precise, well-controlled high speed turns. It's not that SOME OF the shorter radius skis can't be skied at ludicrous speeds, it's that they don't respond properly to tipping inputs.
 
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cloudymind

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For fun sport carving on-piste, I've had success with the Head Rebel e.Speed Pro 185/19m, Stockli Laser GS 185/19.4m, and Nordica GSR RB FDT 185/20.5m.

The wider (68-71mm), longer radius "GS" skis like the Atomic 183/24m, Augment/Van Deer 185/25m, Dynastar Rossi 183/21m, Head 183/25m are all OK, but a bit disappointing, as they are not quite as fun and maneuverable when zooming resort on-piste runs as the 18-20m sport carving skis nor are they as capable in the course, at speed, or on hard snow as a 65mm wide Junior or Masters FIS GS ski like the Atomic 187/26m, Augment/Van Deer 183/25m, Dynastar Rossi 185/27m, Head 186/25m, Nordica 188/25m, Stockli 184/25.5 or a true 30m FIS GS ski.
in recent years natural snow here in europe is a bit lacking. i often skied on very hard-iced slopes alternated with melting snow and moguls. i find longer radius skis more adaptable. head e speed are more nimble than the gs rd but i tested both the same day and i preferred and bought the gs. i never tested the nordica but i rented blizzard, was told should be similar. they seemed stiffer than the head 25m and i found them less nimble than the heads.
i also have 27m head gs 70mm but i prefer the 25m 65mm don't know it because of width or flex.
should probably test again the dynastar/rossi 19m everyone bragging how compliant they are.
also interesting what i read about volkl racetigers in 21-23 meters, here i only see the 17-18 meter. i expected longer to be more racing-oriented
 

markojp

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That's my experience of such skis in recent years, That said, the Jam Session and Enjoyski coaches seem to get on just fine with Head's yellow 18-ish and Nordica's 17-ish skis, so it might be harsh to pan the whole category outright.
I can't really work who they're aimed at though.

Fwiw, the Rebels eSpeed/iSpeed is apparently Franz Klammer's favorite ski. I have a pair of iSpeed Pros, have owned a Blizzard WRC in the past, and agree with you. I've never found the grip lacking on either. Always thought the Hero Master mentioned was fun. The tip shape never bothered me one way or the other. If I were racing, I'd probably go the the 25m eGS.
 

markojp

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I have found, as a general rule that a 19 m turn radius is about the limit for precise, well-controlled high speed turns. It's not that SOME OF the shorter radius skis can't be skied at ludicrous speeds, it's that they don't respond properly to tipping inputs.

You should take an eRace Pro or Blizzard HRC out.
 

oldschoolskier

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I am going to suggest you look up all of @ScotsSkier reviews and comments on skis. They are likely the most neutral reviews that you every read. If the review sounds like this is what will work for you it very likely will. They will give you the direction you are looking for and also questions you should be asking. @Primoz is another that comments on skis that are worth while looking at.

@Philpug (site owner) is another good general resource for information.

You will stumble upon a few others that have similar knowledge to comment on how different models and years perform in those threads.

The reason for this is these members have access to the top stuff and in most cases inside knowledge beyond the marketing hype we see.
 
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cloudymind

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Also wide enough to be playful if it snows a bit overnight.


Not what you've been asking for but have you played with a FIS SL?
i don't think. i skied some consumer SL rented from shops or friends, some were obviously quite good but don't think proper fis. i had results. i don't like to spend the day doing short turns and i sometimes like a bit of speed on ice.
some SL are capable of mid-radium turns or can be drifted, others instead were too specialized.
also i don't like them in fresh snow.
 

oldschoolskier

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I have found, as a general rule that a 19 m turn radius is about the limit for precise, well-controlled high speed turns. It's not that SOME OF the shorter radius skis can't be skied at ludicrous speeds, it's that they don't respond properly to tipping inputs.
This!

Unless you are a World Cup top racer, short radius skis (even those set up perfectly) can hook and catch at high speed unexpectedly with extremely negative results for the skier.
 

oldschoolskier

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i don't think. i skied some consumer SL rented from shops or friends, some were obviously quite good but don't think proper fis. i had results. i don't like to spend the day doing short turns and i sometimes like a bit of speed on ice.
some SL are capable of mid-radium turns or can be drifted, others instead were too specialized.
also i don't like them in fresh snow.
I try an ski SL's equally to my GS skis in all conditions. Reason is simple the speed at which GS (even consumer level skis) perform they mask mistakes. With SL's you can ski them at SL speeds (a blast) or ski them ultra slow but with GS technique, any errors or mistakes will bring you to a stop (no speed and momentum to hid behind) without the risk of injury. People see you doing this will not understand how you do this.
 

markojp

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This!

Unless you are a World Cup top racer, short radius skis (even those set up perfectly) can hook and catch at high speed unexpectedly with extremely negative results for the skier.

You should take an eRace Pro or Blizzard HRC out. (15m in a 175 and 174 respectively)
 

slow-line-fast

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i don't think. i skied some consumer SL rented from shops or friends, some were obviously quite good but don't think proper fis. i had results. i don't like to spend the day doing short turns and i sometimes like a bit of speed on ice.
some SL are capable of mid-radium turns or can be drifted, others instead were too specialized.
also i don't like them in fresh snow.

Correct. What you dislike about the SL skis you have tried, for your longer radius goals, would all be worse with a FIS SL.
 

Tony Storaro

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i also have 27m head gs 70mm but i prefer the 25m 65mm don't know it because of width or flex.
should probably test again the dynastar/rossi 19m everyone bragging how compliant they are.

The Hero Master are to me easier to ski than the Heads. Guess that's to be expected as my Heros are 179/19 and the Head Rd Pro 189/27. However the Heads are smoother and more planted. My only regret is that I didn't go for 191/28 m as I only use these in days when I really like to go 100+ km/h. :ogbiggrin: :ogbiggrin:
 

James

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Fwiw, the Rebels eSpeed/iSpeed is apparently Franz Klammer's favorite ski. I have a pair of iSpeed Pros, have owned a Blizzard WRC in the past, and agree with you. I've never found the grip lacking on either. Always thought the Hero Master mentioned was fun. The tip shape never bothered me one way or the other. If I were racing, I'd probably go the the 25m eGS.
Which one is this that Franz is on?
9A864145-D12F-48A8-B0A8-5A1F9AAEC562.jpeg


 
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