gs skis but not for racing, what's on the market? and what would you buy?

markojp

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Well, if you're trying to prove I'm wrong, you win. Honestly, I really don't care. I'm only going by what a friend who had skied with him said he answered when she asked. Hopefully everyone will be skiing soon.
 

DocGKR

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"Fwiw, the Rebels eSpeed/iSpeed is apparently Franz Klammer's favorite ski."

Yup, the Head Rebel i/e.Speed is what Klammer typically skis, as several folks who have recently skied with Klammer have confirmed.
 

Zirbl

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Correct. What you dislike about the SL skis you have tried, for your longer radius goals, would all be worse with a FIS SL.
Wasn't suggesting FIS SLs or trying to ski long turns on them. Was asking if he'd been on them in the conditions described.
 

Cheizz

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i finally tested a pair of head gs rd and i liked them alot, i traded my elans and got 2 pairs of the gs-rd: 25 meter and 27 meters. i especially like the former ones, the latter are a bit harder for my level.
What exactly did you like about those Head GS RD, @cloudymind ? There are two huge differences between the Elans you have and these Heads: the fact that the Heads have a much heavier construction (denser wood core, thicker metal, etc.), and then of course there is the bigger radius too. Combined with the more serious, stiffer build, that's quite a leap. So which aspect of the Heads did you like so much? Or both?

especially i still don't know if i really want a jack of all trade because i tested a fischer ct and head e race that are 15m and i don't like them, so i'm a bit skeptical about modern 18 meters skis.
Same question here, really: what was it about the Fischers and the Head e-Race that you didn't like? was it just that smaller radius (compared to both the Elans and the Head RDs)? Or was it the overall feel as well? I find both the Fischer CT and the Head e-Race to be very stable, damp, and powerful in feel, much like some RD-style skis that I have tried.

I think a bit more explanation of 'why' you like specific skis (or don't like) may help us find the perfect blend of build, stiffness and radius that you might enjoy.
 

markojp

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FWIW, I own and ski both the iRace Pro and the iSpeed Pro. The iRace is shot and being replaced with an eRace Pro. They are very different skis. I would describe the iSpeed Pro as a 'stronger' ski with even better edge grip. They feel like they ski stiffer. They take more energy to ski shorter radius turns that the eRace Pro skis with aplomb. Both are excellent, fun skis. The eRace Pro is a great, versatile 'work' ski. I can demo or coach anything on them easily. The iSpeed Pro is perhaps a bit more serious, but still also fun to just go skiing on. It really depends where you ski when picking one or the other. Bigger area, bigger turns, i/eSpeed. Fun, precise versatility, i/e Race Pro.
 
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oldschoolskier

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You should take an eRace Pro or Blizzard HRC out. (15m in a 175 and 174 respectively)
I've skied my son's ski (I picked them) that fall into that advance intermediate/advance ski range, and was pleasantly surprised at how stable this range of skis have become (even when pushed up to the "should you be going this fast speeds"). So I would suspect I would like them.

My point on is SL FIS (on the softer side) are just so predicable and good up to the mid 40mph range (skier dependent if course, higher if you are a true racer). At slow speed well, they are a ultra slow speed GS ski with out the worries for someone looking for skill. Soft SL FIS are a dream for anything from budding intermediate and up, the performance they provide is only dictated by the input of the individual, just don't over ski them for your ability speed wise.

GS FIS personally love them as I'm willing to work them to avoid the punishment they can dish out. Do I recommend them for most skiers, hell no! These are skis that that are meant to be skied, period, don't ski them and they ski you (and if they can try and kill you). This just results, at best an unpleasant experience, at worst injury. If some one wants to go this route, truely understand what you are getting into.

I'm with @markojp that there are great non GS FIS cheater skis (among other GS/SL hybrids) out there that for most will do anything most skiers desire without hitting the limit of the ski myself included. So for me, I want that final performance along with the risk that goes with it (is it smart well that's another discussion).
 
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DocGKR

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markojp--perfect descriptions of the Rebel i/e.Race Pro vs. Rebel i/e.Speed Pro that completely matches my experiences on them!

If we are training gates on FIS GS or SG in the morning, for a change of pace I'll often jump on an e.Race (or the similar WRT ST) in the afternoon for drills and free skiing; likewise if the morning is on FIS SL's for gates, the e.Speed's (or Laser GS) may come out to play to stretch my legs for afternoon free skiing.

For more recreational pursuits, then a nice 88-90mm All Mountain ski (Stance 90, Monster 88, AM88c, MX88, etc...) typically gets the nod for fun skiing.

 

slow-line-fast

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FWIW, I own and ski both the iRace Pro and the iSpeed Pro. The iRace is shot and being replaced with an eRace Pro. They are very different skis. I would describe the iSpeed Pro as a 'stronger' ski with even better edge grip. They feel like they ski stiffer. They take more energy to ski shorter radius turns that the eRace Pro skis with aplomb. Both are excellent, fun skis. The eRace Pro is a great, versatile 'work' ski. I can demo or coach anything on them easily. The iSpeed Pro is perhaps a bit more serious, but still also fun to just go skiing on. It really depends where you ski when picking one or the other. Bigger area, bigger turns, i/eSpeed. Fun, precise versatility, i/e Race Pro.

Thanks for this decoder. I am not skiing Head, but when shopping occasionally take a look and get confused by i, e, race, speed and their permutations.
 
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cloudymind

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I try an ski SL's equally to my GS skis in all conditions. Reason is simple the speed at which GS (even consumer level skis) perform they mask mistakes. With SL's you can ski them at SL speeds (a blast) or ski them ultra slow but with GS technique, any errors or mistakes will bring you to a stop (no speed and momentum to hid behind) without the risk of injury. People see you doing this will not understand how you do this.
interesting, i didn't think SL s to be useful as learning machines. infact what i did not like was the constant attention needed for using the tails and the grip of the edges. on 1st run i fell after 5 meters. will rent a pair but still not my everyday skis.
What exactly did you like about those Head GS RD, @cloudymind ? There are two huge differences between the Elans you have and these Heads: the fact that the Heads have a much heavier construction (denser wood core, thicker metal, etc.), and then of course there is the bigger radius too. Combined with the more serious, stiffer build, that's quite a leap. So which aspect of the Heads did you like so much? Or both?


Same question here, really: what was it about the Fischers and the Head e-Race that you didn't like? was it just that smaller radius (compared to both the Elans and the Head RDs)? Or was it the overall feel as well? I find both the Fischer CT and the Head e-Race to be very stable, damp, and powerful in feel, much like some RD-style skis that I have tried.

I think a bit more explanation of 'why' you like specific skis (or don't like) may help us find the perfect blend of build, stiffness and radius that you might enjoy.
yes my elans are not structurally as heavy as GS or cheater GS etc.. but that's not my main concern, infact i'm not a speed-adicted and i choose the NON-PRO verion of the heads. elans were the 1st "modern skis" i bought. the day i took them on the runs i was thrilled because i almost felt like i had become a better skier overnight. problem is that the elans are a bit "disconnected": they do turn no matter how you put pressure on the outside ski vs the internal, if you are late or if you are using too much edge or not enough of it. so they are great to spend a day on the slopes but you should be really careful to feel and correct your errors. you start to notice some problems trying to raise speeds or when you get surprised by ice or moguls, not because of the ski itself but because they were masking your errors. at least this is why i wanted to test different models.
still i have a pair of very old 195cm GS skis from the '80s with 55mm waist and to me they felt more natural than the elans on ice and higer speeds.
it was some kind of head event, i tested a pair of supershape but felt quite similar to my elans so they guy gave me the GSRD because all the speeds were out. i immediately loved the GS because they felt sensible to weight transfer and it was really rewarding to make them turn on the edges at relatively low speeds, also they were so precise at higher speeds. the guy allowed me to do another session, then finally a pair of head speed was available for testing.
they felt easier on short turns but the other features i liked about the gs felt a bit muted expecially a turn that i took on an iced wall. during years i rented many times, usually mid-level models like supershape so the speed would still be better if i hadn't tested the GS.

i rented the race in a different location and i found them great for carving in shorter turns but a bit "out of confidence" doing longer turns. fischer CT is more stable at speeds, they also seem very powerful compared to head race, great fun on short turns ad easy on longer ones, i enjoyed them the day i rented. but i tried some longer radius turn on a steeper run that was iced with moguls and i simply did not find the same stability and grip of my heads. also i was not able to drift them properly.
 

oldschoolskier

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interesting, i didn't think SL s to be useful as learning machines. infact what i did not like was the constant attention needed for using the tails and the grip of the edges. on 1st run i fell after 5 meters. will rent a pair but still not my everyday skis.

yes my elans are not structurally as heavy as GS or cheater GS etc.. but that's not my main concern, infact i'm not a speed-adicted and i choose the NON-PRO verion of the heads. elans were the 1st "modern skis" i bought. the day i took them on the runs i was thrilled because i almost felt like i had become a better skier overnight. problem is that the elans are a bit "disconnected": they do turn no matter how you put pressure on the outside ski vs the internal, if you are late or if you are using too much edge or not enough of it. so they are great to spend a day on the slopes but you should be really careful to feel and correct your errors. you start to notice some problems trying to raise speeds or when you get surprised by ice or moguls, not because of the ski itself but because they were masking your errors. at least this is why i wanted to test different models.
still i have a pair of very old 195cm GS skis from the '80s with 55mm waist and to me they felt more natural than the elans on ice and higer speeds.
it was some kind of head event, i tested a pair of supershape but felt quite similar to my elans so they guy gave me the GSRD because all the speeds were out. i immediately loved the GS because they felt sensible to weight transfer and it was really rewarding to make them turn on the edges at relatively low speeds, also they were so precise at higher speeds. the guy allowed me to do another session, then finally a pair of head speed was available for testing.
they felt easier on short turns but the other features i liked about the gs felt a bit muted expecially a turn that i took on an iced wall. during years i rented many times, usually mid-level models like supershape so the speed would still be better if i hadn't tested the GS.

i rented the race in a different location and i found them great for carving in shorter turns but a bit "out of confidence" doing longer turns. fischer CT is more stable at speeds, they also seem very powerful compared to head race, great fun on short turns ad easy on longer ones, i enjoyed them the day i rented. but i tried some longer radius turn on a steeper run that was iced with moguls and i simply did not find the same stability and grip of my heads. also i was not able to drift them properly.
Please note me name...I switch from old straight race GS skis to modern GS skis and went thru a learning curve of timing and concepts of what you should and shouldn't do.

Based on your comments GS skis can be skied old school and will behave the same as old school skis. When you ski them properly you will see the difference (and scary it will be). As to SL problems sorry to say I've leant my race tuned (aggressive 0.5/4 set up, no burrs) to high level beginners and above and none experienced the issue you noted. I'm going to suggest the ones you tired where not tuned well. Don't worry about tips or tails, just balance and balance, roll onto your edges, the rest comes later. BTW most that ski them really want to keep them as they make skiing easy.

Perfect tune aside from great boot fit makes a huge difference.
 
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cloudymind

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i also learned with old skis.
later switched to modern race carve and took lessons on them.
i have good memories of the old gs and i plan to put a modern binding on them to use again, but i find modern ones to be more capable and fun overall and faster.
i really don't know how SL are tuned, i thought 88 or 87 would be the standard for everything and almost sure it's the standard for rental place
don't get me wrong i used them in different occasions and also took on proper solpes used for racing on the alps. i learned to avoid soft snow with them and to be constantly careful if i wanted to ski them.
just didn't like to to take them out of their confort zone, and much more demanding than GS. so for occasional renting i would choose something more versatile like the fischer ct4.
 

DocGKR

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Reality check time.

I have a pair of my old 210cm GS skis likely left over from the 1983-84 college race season. There is absolutely no comparison between the old-school straight GS skis (which have about a 50m turn radius using the FIS calculator) and modern shaped FIS GS skis with a nominal 30m radius. The modern skis are much easier to initiate and hold a carved turn, have greater edge grip, a higher speed limit while turning, and are more stable in the course.

A modern SG or women's DH ski is closer in feel to an old school GS ski than a modern 30m FIS GS ski, but even then, the modern SG/DH skis turn better and have a higher speed limit than the old-school straight GS skis.

Old and new GS Skis.png
 

Zirbl

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i thought 88 or 87 would be the standard for everything and almost sure it's the standard for rental place
Depends how specialised/bothered the rental is. You might get an 88, unless they have a lot of race-oriented customers and offer 87/0.5 as standard. But I know a place - in a place where you ski in conditions like you've described - where they were putting out 18m racecarvers with 89/1.
 

James

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Well, if you're trying to prove I'm wrong, you win. Honestly, I really don't care. I'm only going by what a friend who had skied with him said he answered when she asked. Hopefully everyone will be skiing soon.
I guess that was from the Klammer pic I posted? It was a direct question, I don’t know wth Heads look like.
Geez dude, maybe take some happy pills.
 
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cloudymind

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Reality check time.

I have a pair of my old 210cm GS skis likely left over from the 1983-84 college race season. There is absolutely no comparison between the old-school straight GS skis (which have about a 50m turn radius using the FIS calculator) and modern shaped FIS GS skis with a nominal 30m radius. The modern skis are much
yes i like the new heads much more than my old SG, i'll try to measure them because i think mine are less than 50 meters. but are also much lighter than the modern gs we are talking.
also if remember correctly back in the day the edges were tuned to standard 90°. infact ski lab refused to tune my old skis because of some problems with they modern machine.
 

François Pugh

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yes i like the new heads much more than my old SG, i'll try to measure them because i think mine are less than 50 meters. but are also much lighter than the modern gs we are talking.
also if remember correctly back in the day the edges were tuned to standard 90°. infact ski lab refused to tune my old skis because of some problems with they modern machine.
My old SGs (first generation Kastle SG 208) were one of the first skis to come with a factory 0.5 base bevel. I still ski them occasionally, and yes, every modern ski is easier to ski. BTW, mine were not light. They had three layers of steel in them, along with wood and rubber (later years went to SG "light" :P with some kind of magnesium alloy).
 

DocGKR

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Rebel E-Speed (white ski) and Rebel e-Speed Pro (yellow ski) are more similar than different--hard to tell them apart when skiing, although the Pro's are perhaps a touch more responsive.

Both the 19m Atomic G9 and 19m Head e.Pro are relatively similar, however I like the power, responsiveness, and energy of the Heads a bit more than the Atomic for free-skiing.

Interestingly, the reverse is true when racing; I much prefer the FIS 30m Atomics over the FIS 30m Heads in gates.
 
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