Gwyneth Paltrow Deer Valley Collision and Trial

[fatbob]

TBH, probably not. However, I was aware of him, I was skiing in control and I was able to avoid a collision. He OTOH, had no clue I was there. I wasn't straight lining, I was linking short radius turns taking up only 10-15 feet of the hill. He was using up much more of the slope as if he were only one there.

Rick G

It's those sort of people that trigger a whole bunch of near accidents through their selfishness. Believing in your righteousness as a downhill skier doesn't excuse you from unwritten rule 0 "Don't be a dick". Hell on a busy slope I'll even shouldercheck before stopping because who knows if that guy behind me can stop as fast.

 

[Seldomski]

This happened to me at Copper last month. I was towards the bottom of a blue green groomer skiing a narrow predictable line at edge of slope next to tree line on skiers left. I see a guy in front on my right doing medium radius turns, with plenty of room for me to pass on left. All of a sudden he decides to do a big swoopy turn and cuts right in front of me to which I yelled, HEY! to get his attention and then moved as far left as I could. I was the uphill skier, and I was able to react correctly and avoided him. However it was clear that we was not keeping an eye uphill as he swooped across the slope. In the lift line, I mentioned to him that it would be nice if he were to look uphill before swooping across the hill. HIs reply was that I was the uphill skier and my responsibility. I agreed with him, telling him I did my responsibility and avoided him, but he also had a responsibility to pay attention to uphill skiers as he swooped across the hill. (My head is always on a swivel when on crowded slopes.) He was adamant that he did nothing wrong, only my responsibility. I asked him if while driving a car, does he look before changing lanes? Of course, he wouldn't answer, and I let it drop.

In the old days we all skied narrow lines down the fall line. The new techniques and equipment have changed the way folks ski a hill, especially newer skiers. Everyone wants to do big swoopy turns surfing down the mountain. That is fine, but you still have to look where you are going, and anticipate that there might be skiers skiing a narrower line that you are cutting in front of. Responsibility goes both ways.

Just my highly opinionated $0.02 worth!

Rick G

It's a good story and good that you were in control to avoid him. I don't think the downhill skier did anything wrong. Uphill skier needs to ski such that they can avoid any unplanned/planned maneuver. The swerving could be to avoid a death cookie, small child, moose, etc.

 

[rickg]

It's a good story and good that you were in control to avoid him. I don't think the downhill skier did anything wrong. Uphill skier needs to ski such that they can avoid any unplanned/planned maneuver. The swerving could be to avoid a death cookie, small child, moose, etc.

What I and others have been stressing is that we all have a responsibility to be aware of other skiers on the hill and adjust your line accordingly. I try to be aware of every skier in front of me, and if I am doing those big swoopy turns (they are fun) I keep an eye uphill as I cross the fall line and adjust as necessary. I give lower-level skiers more room and kids a wide berth. When I come upon lessons, I will slow down, give a wide berth and wave to class. We have to share the hills no matter what your ability level is. If we don't self police they will legislate rules and take away our fun.

Rick G

 

[tball]

I don’t disagree BUT it’s not always easy to swivel the head around and essentially throw yourself off balance to look back in a split second. Not to mention even with peripheral vision, you can’t see that much with a quick peak over the shoulder.

Looking back is a skill you can learn. A glance in the direction you are turning doesn't require moving your head much, and with practice, you can do so without throwing yourself off balance.

I've gotten pretty good at it skiing with our kiddos. I suspect seasoned ski instructors are masters at it.

 

[AmyPJ]

Looking back is a skill you can learn. A glance in the direction you are turning doesn't require moving your head much, and with practice, you can do so without throwing yourself off balance.

I've gotten pretty good at it skiing with our kiddos. I suspect seasoned ski instructors are masters at it.

I do all the time. Doesn’t mean I get a full picture of what’s going on behind me. It also takes your focus off of what’s going on ahead of you.

 

[tball]

I do all the time. Doesn’t mean I get a full picture of what’s going on behind me. It also takes your focus off of what’s going on ahead of you.

I don't think focusing on what's ahead of you is safe. Move your head, or you're dead!

Things You Should Learn About Road Safety from a Royal Air Force Pilot

John Sullivan is a Royal Air Force pilot with over 4000 flight hours, and an avid cyclist. This ‘simple fighter pilot’, as he refers to himself, was kind

www.welovecycling.com

 

[rickg]

I do all the time. Doesn’t mean I get a full picture of what’s going on behind me. It also takes your focus off of what’s going on ahead of you.

If you make a conscious effort to do it 100% of the time, it will be 2nd nature in no time.

Rick G

 

[dovski]

I do all the time. Doesn’t mean I get a full picture of what’s going on behind me. It also takes your focus off of what’s going on ahead of you.

I agree situational awareness is critical while skiing and be aware of what is coming at you is important. That said the responsibility does rest with the uphill skier. Simply put many skiers, especially little kids and beginners are going to make erratic turns and are likely not going to have the same control or awareness of a seasoned skier, so that puts the onus on the uphill skier, to ski responsibly, in control with the ability to make quick turns and adjustments to their line so as to avoid hitting downhill skiers regardless of what they are doing.

 

[ADKmel]

I have always taught and told others "Keep your owl head on" LOOK!!! before turning!
Just because you have the ROW doesn't mean others won't hit you..
I'm glad the guy lost- seems like he was just wanting to refill his bank account!

 

[dbostedo]

he also had a responsibility to pay attention to uphill skiers as he swooped across the hill.

That said the responsibility does rest with the uphill skier.

This is what I was thinking. Calling looking uphill a responsibility means someone can be blamed/at fault if they don't do it; or could let uphill skiers feel like they have some kind of right of way that they don't. Which is not right at all IMO.

I think it's a good practice and considerate, and good to teach people to look uphill. I do it all the time. But I'd never say someone has a responsibility to look uphill.

 

[no edge]

It seems like the Code has a serious problem. If someone is skiing back and forth in large turns and he is above the skier who is in a consistent corridor, then the skier coming down and towards the controlled skier should be accountable. If you are broadsided by a skier coming across the hill that skier should be looking where he or she is going. This is the skier with the view. Even if he goes ahead of the corridor skier last minute that should not place the blame on that skier.

The code should be changed. In my situation the up skier came across the trail and smashed into a controlled and predictable skier. I have seen too many crashes where skier is crossing the hill with a perfect view. An example like this happened to me. Skier was sking on the opposit side of the trail - controlled '25 arc turns. I was skiing quickly in the corridor. Suddenly he moved out of his line and skied across the trail. He was facing me and he kept coming. I assumed he was going to turn and he didn't. I yelled at him, real loud - still nothing! I cranked an aggressive stop and then into the woods a bit. I yelled at him but I was kind... "wtf is wrong with you" Then I added another comment that was none to king. He was clueless.

Field of vision matters.

 

[dbostedo]

It seems like the Code has a serious problem. If someone is skiing back and forth in large turns and he is above the skier who is in a consistent corridor, then the skier coming down and towards the controlled skier should be accountable. If you are broadsided by a skier coming across the hill that skier should be looking where he or she is going. This is the skier with the view. Even if he goes ahead of the corridor skier last minute that should not place the blame on that skier.

The code should be changed. In my situation the up skier came across the trail and smashed into a controlled and predictable skier. I have seen too many crashes where skier is crossing the hill with a perfect view. An example like this happened to me. Skier was sking on the opposit side of the trail - controlled '25 arc turns. I was skiing quickly in the corridor. Suddenly he moved out of his line and skied across the trail. He was facing me and he kept coming. I assumed he was going to turn and he didn't. I yelled at him, real loud - still nothing! I cranked an aggressive stop and then into the woods a bit. I yelled at him but I was kind... "wtf is wrong with you" Then I added another comment that was none to king. He was clueless.

Field of vision matters.

The code handles this by saying you're responsible for what's "ahead" of you, not just downhill. So if you are going straight across the hill and hit someone directly ahead of you, you can be at fault.

But of course there's no way to have a perfect system/rules. Many collisions are fuzzy as far as fault. The question in situations like you describe could often be fuzzy around whether or not one of the skiers was "passing" the other, and perhaps failed to safely pass. In general, big wide slopes make the rules more difficult. On narrower slopes things become more obvious.

 

[AmyPJ]

It's those sort of people that trigger a whole bunch of near accidents through their selfishness. Believing in your righteousness as a downhill skier doesn't excuse you from unwritten rule 0 "Don't be a dick". Hell on a busy slope I'll even shouldercheck before stopping because who knows if that guy behind me can stop as

If you make a conscious effort to do it 100% of the time, it will be 2nd nature in no time.

Rick G

I love it when people who have never skied with me assume I do or don't do something. Ask my husband how ridiculous I am about looking behind me and holding up for crowds to pass. It drives him NUTS. Still, people can be lurking "in the shadows" so to speak and suddenly appear before you have time to react.

Downhill skier has the right-of-way. That's it. Give space. The only time I get aggravated by someone ahead doing something unpredictable is when it's someone who has been standing still and starts moving without looking up (which as we know is part of The Code.) Otherwise, it's on ME to avoid someone downhill of me.

 

[no edge]

I think this is why “ahead” was added?

Yes but ahead could mean one second behind, and one second even, and then one second in front - this would indicate that crossing skier was out of control. They have the visual field and If someone comes across the hill out of visual range and then moves ahead by feet, I don't buy it, the original uphill skier is the reckless one even if he jumps a head of the other skier!

More experienced skiers need to be vigilant and be aware of potential situations that are developing. Many of the new skiers on the hill don't have the experience to execute the code. New skiers are often able to ski fast. Head on a swivel makes sense. If someone jumps out after taking a break on the trail it's their fault, but good skiers don't rely on predictability. It's called protect yourself at all times.

 

[Slasher]

leave it the Brits to encapsulate this most succinctly:

“Gwyneth Paltrow glides out of ‘ski-and-run’ trial with brand enhanced”​

Gwyneth Paltrow glides out of ‘ski-and-run’ trial with brand enhanced

The Hollywood star turned luxury wellness guru not only convinced the jury but won plaudits for her poise and look

www.theguardian.com

 

[Seldomski]

What I and others have been stressing is that we all have a responsibility to be aware of other skiers on the hill and adjust your line accordingly.

I agree with you, more people should be more aware and skiing would be safer. I can do this and practice this. But simply put, it's foolish to expect others to do this. I can only control what I do. I do not expect others to be looking over their shoulder when they ski - and so I ski accordingly. So guy downhill swerving across the run into your path - it's totally within the realm of what happens on the slopes.

Only people I see scanning in all directions are accomplished skiers who can manage to ski competently and do something else at the same time. Most skiers I see on the hill are just barely getting down whatever they are on and doing so with tunnel vision. When I ski, I assume everyone is in the latter category, unless I see obvious tells otherwise. And even then, I have seen good skiers swerve across the run knowing there are skiers uphill of them just to prove a point about right of way. I see instructors change lines to fill a run frequently, even when there is traffic.

 

[KevinF]

Even if somebody downhill is making controlled, rhythmic turns it doesn't mean that they're not going to slip, lose balance, etc. and suddenly break that rhythm. Yes, I try to look uphill (a quick glance is all it takes) before doing an intentional "lane change", but there have certainly been instances of "highly unintentional" lane changes as well.

Heck, the other day I was skiing a string of consistent radius turns and somebody passed me at something approaching Warp Six just after my ski tips had started the turn. If I had slipped, adjusted my radius by two inches, etc. I would have been clobbered.

If you can't pass somebody in a manner that there's virtually no chance of a collision, then you really, really need to rethink your tactics on the slope.

I always like @Bob Barnes ' take on this. If you hit somebody then you either weren't in control or you did it on purpose. Somebody above mentioned the scenario where another person exits the woods directly in front of you which I would take as the one caveat to this.

 

[cosmoliu]

My head is always on a swivel. ESPECIALLY AT DEER VALLEY. However, at 71, that swivel is quite a bit more limited than it was 10 years ago...

 

[wiread]

I always like @Bob Barnes ' take on this. If you hit somebody then you either weren't in control or you did it on purpose. Somebody above mentioned the scenario where another person exits the woods directly in front of you which I would take as the one caveat to this.

Even that, if the woods are that thick I can't see the trail coming out or people skiing in them, I stay far enough a way it's not an issue. If I see where people have trails coming out of woods, I make sure I'm making right hand turns if the woods are on the left or vice versa when nearing those. If someone does pop out unexpectedly, i'm already turning away.

I don't see many instances where I could hit someone downhill from me regardless of where they come from, and it's not my fault if I do. Even merging trails, I ease up, i slow down, I make sure I have room around to adjust and turn away from merge point , not towards. I don't care if someone doesn't look up hill when they merge, I already have it covered as I should, as the uphill skier.

Everything after uphill is responsible for what is downhill is redundancy to me or a fail safe for someone NOT being responsible for what is downhill. Too many people see it as a way to place blame on someone else IMO.

 

[James]

The number of people who don’t look where they should is large.
Lets take Sugarloaf. There’s gobs of intersections. A lot of these are crossing steep groomers. If it’s smooth and firm, people can easily be doing 40-50mph. And people just go through as if they couldn’t possibly be hit. Sure, they have right of way, just like people in a crosswalk have right of way, but most people don’t trust cars to stop.