Help me dress for XC skiing

[Jerez]

A fried gave me cross country skis and boots a year ago. Finally had a chance to use them couple of times and had a blast.

Realized pretty quickly that I was not dressed properly. Ended up skiing in my long underwear with my poofy around my waist. The usual places I would go to for ski apparel don't really offer specific advice or products for nordic.

I would use these items for classic XC and maybe ask some to do double duty for uphill resort touring.

Educate me on what to buy. Money is definitely a consideration, but I also don't want cheap and poor performing

Mods: Please move to nordic forum if you think that is more appropriate.

 

[neonorchid]

Essentially the same clothing you'd wear for running and cycling. Doesn't have to be marketed sport-specific for nordic skiing, there are a lot of crossover-use garments.
Priorities: highly breathable, moisture-wicking, wind-resistant, water-repellent, quick-drying, elastic for freedom of movement.
Often comes down to trial and error, helps to have a lightweight "trail running" backpack to stow a warming jacket or fleece, extra layers, gloves/glove liners.

 

[jt10000]

Essentially the same clothing you'd wear for running and cycling. Doesn't have to be marketed sport-specific for nordic skiing, there are a lot of crossover-use garments.
Priorities: highly breathable, moisture-wicking, wind-resistant, water-repellent, quick-drying, elastic for freedom of movement.
Often comes down to trial and error, helps to have a lightweight "trail running" backpack to stow a warming jacket or fleece, extra layers, gloves/glove liners.

All this. And how much you wear depends on both the weather and how vigorously you're skiing. You should generally be somewhere between what you'd wear running and riding at any particular temperature and level of effort.

The one thing I'd watch out for is cycling jackets for really cold riding - they tend to not be breathable enough or flexible enough around the shoulders (whereas regular jerseys typically are).

Just as an example, for me starting out (I had cycling stuff) when doing vigorous skiing at 20F on groomed trails it'd be a longsleeve base layer, on overlayer like a regular long-sleeve cycling jersey or long-sleeve running top, and a thin running or cycling vest with a mesh back. On the bottom a thin base layer and regular (not-wind-proof) cycling tights or thin running pants (though I know many people that would skip the baselayers on the legs at that temperature). A buff and a thin hat. Thin winter cycling gloves, with XC gloves being the first XC-specific things I got. Oh and windbriefs - that's important particularly if you don't wear wind-resistant stuff on the legs.

So see what you have. You have the baselayers already from lift-served skiing. Do you have a very thin fleece jacket for up top? And running tights or thin synthetic sweat pants? Then you're set to start.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Try different combinations of clothing you already own. If it’s not too cold out you can use regular or insulated jogging pants. For colder weather snow pants help. I go in the early am when it is usually around 0 or 10, and still get sweaty with a base layer and mid weight jacket. I just change into a fresh shirt before I go alpine.

 

[Crank]

I have a paif of EMS TEchwick pants I use for outer layer. At 20f or above I'm probably not wearing a base layer under that. On top I use a light windbreaker that I have from cycling. I usually start a bit overdressed (down puffy). I almost always carry a small backpack to stuff layers in. The maxim to start out cold is true. Problem is I don't want to start out cold and I like to warm up gradually so I start out dressed warm and delayer as I warm up.

 

[Tony S]

Other posters have all been on the money. Anything I add is not meant to contradict, but to enhance.

As jt1000 said, cycling tops - both jerseys and jackets - are generally not cut right for skiing. The bottoms can be fine, obviously excepting anything with a built in chamois.

Cycling eyewear is often perfect for xc - vents better than goggles, is much lighter, but still offers real wind protection.

If you are not starting and ending at your house, bring a complete change of clothes in your car; you are going to sweat.

Gloves are one thing you may find yourself buying on a single purpose basis - maybe even a lighter pair and a heavier pair. Most alpine gloves are way too bulky and warm. Cycling gloves can have a variety of unsuitable characteristics. Basically you need something that is going to interface nicely with the grip and strap, not wear out in three uses due to the abrasion from same, and be washable (becuase ... see above about sweating).

Also nice to have is a drink belt with enough of a pocket for keys, wallet, snack. I actually use a lumbar pack with bottle holder, that's big enough also to hold a spare pair of gloves and to take a compact layer when I get too hot.

Ended up skiing in my long underwear with my poofy around my waist.

Yeah, down is generally not a good material for xc. Did I mention sweat?

The usual places I would go to for ski apparel don't really offer specific advice or products for nordic.

I'm sure that you will find the right places if you look. You are correct that they are not usually places that do alpine. More often they are cycle-and-ski type places. If you want to look online, these are a couple of good sources:

Boulder Nordic & Cycle Sport

Cross-country ski and bike experts

www.bouldernordic.com

Pioneer Midwest

Pioneer Midwest is your local cross country ski shop specializing in everything xc ski related. Classic skis, skate skis, skin skis, touring skis, ski equipment, wax, ski servicing, apparel and more; we do it all!

www.pioneermidwest.com

I also happen to have a pair of side zip pants - seen here - that I've gotten too fat for with the Covid 15. Yours for postage if you want them. PM me.

 

[LuliTheYounger]

If you want to go XC-specific for anything, Swix, Bjorn Daehlie, Craft, and Salomon are a couple that are worth poking around at.

 

[cantunamunch]

^You've gotten reasonably good advo above, I will merely make some fine point observations.


As stated above, cycling tops are cut to flex around a body that's holding handlebars. Using them for a highly arm-and-shoulder dynamic sport is not good. One particular problem with men is nipple chafe - cycling tops can be sandpaper when used in a shoulder-active way. Obv. women will have a different, bra-related problem, but I couldn't possibly advise on that.

Windproof facings are your very good friend, especially on fast semi-downhill sections. Most especially in sub-20F conditions - as Remi Lindholm's ordeal proves. Most cycling stuff does not have XC-level windproof facings. In Remi Lindholm conditions it is a very good idea to back the outer layer up with wind briefs and wind-faced underlayers. This applies to women also, and relates to the bra issue. DO NOT IGNORE THIS. If you are going out in windy or super cold conditions, not having wind facings can result in a lot of things, from long muscle cramping to hypothermia to full Remi-level tissue freeze.

I'm pretty sure @Tony S has or had at least one pair of Nordic goggles - they're really nice for people who face sweat along the nose bridge. The problem with Nordic goggles is that the flip-up feature doesn't really interface well with most helmets (assuming you're using one for low-angle touring anyway).

If you are not using a helmet for LAT and XCD (your call, no judgment here) we have had reasonable success with Poron XRD beanies like the ones from 2ndSkull. https://2ndskull.com/ , which interface nicely with Nordic goggles.

One cycling thing that is handy for LAT and XCD are e-bike helmets (Dutch standard NTA 8776) - a lot of them also come with visors.

 

[tch]

Google Sporthill. XC/running tops and bottoms.

 

[crosscountry]

Gloves are one thing you may find yourself buying on a single purpose basis - maybe even a lighter pair and a heavier pair. Most alpine gloves are way too bulky and warm. Cycling gloves can have a variety of unsuitable characteristics. Basically you need something that is going to interface nicely with the grip and strap, not wear out in three uses due to the abrasion from same, and be washable (becuase ... see above about sweating).

Spot on! I went through a rather torturous journey (literally) before arriving at "glove nirvana".

Tony has listed everything that alpine and cycling gloves are not good on, what makes Nordic gloves special besides abrasion resistance? Waterproof and windproof.

Unless you never fall, your gloves are likely to "interact" with snow, which once melt, becomes water. It can soak through the gloves and make your hand quite uncomfortable. Windproof is also nice. Even on really cold days, the palm of your hands are likely to be sweating because you're constantly opening and closing your hands/fingers during the poling process. But the back of the hand can still get cold from the wind.

By accident, I grabbed my kayak gloves by mistake on one of my early season xc skiing outing. I found out it work quite well! The palm is reinforced (well, for paddling). It's waterproof. It doesn't have much insulation but I never felt I need much insulation anyway. Just keeping the cold snow from getting into contact with my hands is all I needed.

Of course, everybody is different. You may end up with owning different gloves for different temperature days.

 

[crosscountry]

The maxim to start out cold is true. Problem is I don't want to start out cold and I like to warm up gradually so I start out dressed warm and delayer as I warm up.

As I got older, I too shiver at the thought of "starting cold". Something I never question in my younger days.

If I'm not going with a group, I now ski a short distance out and back with a warmer jacket, then put that back in the car.

But on longer outings that involves stopping for lunch on the outside, I do as you, have a small pack of some sort to keep some warm cloths.

 

[Crank]

I, for one, have never had any chafing problems wearing my Pearl Izumi windbreaker for xc.

 

[Crank]

As I got older, I too shiver at the thought of "starting cold". Something I never question in my younger days.

If I'm not going with a group, I now ski a short distance out and back with a warmer jacket, then put that back in the car.

But on longer outings that involves stopping for lunch on the outside, I do as you, have a small pack of some sort to keep some warm cloths.

Sometimes we pack lunch in the pack as well and are layering back up to sit and eat.

 

[cantunamunch]

I, for one, have never had any chafing problems wearing my Pearl Izumi windbreaker for xc.

It's one of those things where one doesn't have any problem - until one *really* has a problem.

 

[jt10000]

Tony has listed everything that alpine and cycling gloves are not good on, what makes Nordic gloves special besides abrasion resistance? Waterproof and windproof.

Unless you never fall, your gloves are likely to "interact" with snow, which once melt, becomes water. It can soak through the gloves and make your hand quite uncomfortable. Windproof is also nice. Even on really cold days, the palm of your hands are likely to be sweating because you're constantly opening and closing your hands/fingers during the poling process. But the back of the hand can still get cold from the wind.

I don't think waterproofness is important for XC gloves - at least when going out for a few hours on groomed trails. If you fall and get snow on your hands/hands, then just brush it off. I don't think any XC specific gloves (from Sinisalo, Toko/Yoko, Craft, Daehlie and maybe others) I have ever had have been waterproof. Perhaps the palms of some are, but I don't think so. Water resistance is nice, but waterproof is not needed.

Wind resistance or even windproof are helpful for colder conditions.

 

[crosscountry]

I don't think any XC specific gloves (from Sinisalo, Toko/Yoko, Craft, Daehlie and maybe others) I have ever had have been waterproof.

I have two pairs of xc gloves that have Gore-tex shells. One by Toko (recent purchase), the other one... it's been put away so can't remember.

 

[neonorchid]

Essentially the same clothing you'd wear for running and cycling. Doesn't have to be marketed sport-specific for nordic skiing, there are a lot of crossover-use garments.
Priorities: highly breathable, moisture-wicking, wind-resistant, water-repellent, quick-drying, elastic for freedom of movement.
Often comes down to trial and error, helps to have a lightweight "trail running" backpack to stow a warming jacket or fleece, extra layers, gloves/glove liners.

I, for one, have never had any chafing problems wearing my Pearl Izumi windbreaker for xc.

You're not alone, and I'm 100% sure we don't have the same Pearl Izumi pieces.

It's one of those things where one doesn't have any problem - until one *really* has a problem.

"trial and error" - not all cycling clothing are cut for a time trial stage in the tour and Strava racer wannabes.

Also, @cantunamunch's logic is just as true with all sport-specific clothing both for their intended sports as well as adapted sports.

Pre-Pandemic, I would do a quick walk thru's of various TJx/Marshals near the primary places I was going and have found (and accumulated) a good deal of high-end cycling/running clothing that have proven themselves perfect for XC skiing. Including Windstopper fabric faced cycling and running tights (sorry @cantunamunch, my Windstopper fabric experience has been contrary to yours, although that could also be why some of the stuff I found was at TJx in the first place, again the value of trial and error). I also check the off-season sale racks at REI. However, all of that has changed since Covid. Finding the good stuff at Tjx/Marshals, always a needle in a haystack is for now a thing of the past. I'm finding REI sales aren't what they used to be either. Never imagined how much all the retail therapy I did over the years would pay off!

 

[jt10000]

I have a purpose-build XC ski jacket that is ostensibly Castelli (but actually made by Craft) that is Gore Windstopper and a couple pairs of XC ski pants by Sportful that are Gore Windstopper. All are great. Windstopper is not the most flexible fabric, so the fit has to be right. But it's a great fabric for nordic skiing in cold conditions.

 

[Pequenita]

My xc ski gloves are the same pairs of gloves that I used for bc skinning which are my running gloves or a pair of lightweight BD gloves. They're not water or windproof, and that hasn't been a problem because I'm not xc skiing in the rain (or wet snow, for that matter). My hands actually get warm when xc skiing because (maybe) I'm gripping the poles too tightly?

 

[neonorchid]

I have a purpose-build XC ski jacket that is ostensibly Castelli (but actually made by Craft) that is Gore Windstopper and a couple pairs of XC ski pants by Sportful that are Gore Windstopper. All are great. Windstopper is not the most flexible fabric, so the fit has to be right. But it's a great fabric for nordic skiing in cold conditions.

The older Gore Windstopper stuff I have is like that, thick, not flexible, no stretch, warm fleece backing. That's not true of the newer windstopper face fabric running/biking pants I have, the newer windstopper (not all are Gore licensed), face fabrics are thinner, move like a traditional fabric, and also have a decent degree of stretch, and not just the "tights", same for some of my looser fitting "hiking" type stretchy activewear pants.

FWIW, Most of my Alpine ski Kit is not suitable for XC skiing.
Alpine ski snow pants are terrible, G-tex Shells, No, just No. Actually, I have one pair of more backcountry skiing-oriented Polartec neoshell pants that are thin fabric and breathable enough for XC ski slogs thru the woods, definitely not the first choice for a classic kick and glide at a good clip along the low lands or a snowcovered frozen river!
My TNF Ventrix and Pgucci Nano Air mid-layers are not bad. Actually, I find I use mine 99% more for XC skiing and trail running than as mids under the alpine G-tex shell. IMO, the hoodies are best, beats toting hats.
The Smartwool 250 baselayers I generally use for lift serve alpine are much too thick and not fast-drying enough. The 100, 150 weight smartwool icebreaker work, and I'll usually wear a Pgucci capeline 1 baselayer underneth next to the skin. The lighter-weight synthetic "Skiing" base layers work better in that regard. I mostly layer running shirts, it's easier to adjust + or - layers on the fly, love the types with thumb cutouts to cover more of the hand when need be.

Honestly, we are all getting awfully techy on her, remember, she's getting started, want's to have fun, she is not entering the American Brikebeiner!