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Help me get out of the back seat: terrain selection

locknload

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Rounded as opposed to hollow back Ron LeMaster touches on it in Ultimate Skiing
I'll try to remember the source for implications of posture on femur function
He's certainly a great source...I just can't picture what a "hollow" back looks like. I'm sure just lost in the words for me. Do you have any visuals?
 
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Yepow

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freeskier1961

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He's certainly a great source...I just can't picture what a "hollow" back looks like. I'm sure just lost in the words for me. Do you have any visuals?
Theres a picture in his book ultimate skiing
For me with my lower back issues 2 surgeries the feeling of rounding my back seems to put less strain on it. Nuetral pelvic tilt?
 

Chris V.

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I just can't picture what a "hollow" back looks like.
Go to any bunny hill. You'll see plenty of intimidated beginners displaying an exaggerated version. Shoulder blades way back, belly button out, hip bones tilted forward, elbows pinned to the body. We call the look "dinosaur arms."
 

Kneale Brownson

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Rounded as opposed to hollow back Ron LeMaster touches on it in Ultimate Skiing
I'll try to remember the source for implications of posture on femur function
Best advice I ever received regarding rounding my back was a directive to feel the inside of my parka with my spine. I've used that sensation to help others for years.
 

Tin Pants

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I think you are making the classic mistake of leaning your upper body forward thinking that will get you forward, but what that does is move your pelvis back and puts you in the back seat also you maybe trying to stand too much on the balls of your feet if you do this, this will open the ankle and push the lower leg back and push the calf in to the back of the boot.
try standing taller relax your feet and ankle to feel shin contact with the front of the boot balance on the whole foot feel balance on the heel and forefoot
 

Slemers

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Best advice I ever received regarding rounding my back was a directive to feel the inside of my parka with my spine. I've used that sensation to help others for years.
I put this to the test after watching a short video a friend took of me skiing at Mt Hood Timberline. I didn't realize I had such an upright stance much of the time. Thanks for that insight :)
 

ss20

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Don't know if it's been mentioned... but something great I heard from a veteran instructor is- press your big toes into the top of your boot. You can try it statically when you're standing. Get in your athletic stance, try raising your big toes, you'll instantly feel your body get about another inch forward or so.

Or you can do what some other instructors did at the hill I started at- the ol' bottle cap trick. Get a bottle cap, tape it on your boot cuff, facing in towards your leg of course. "You'll know you're forward when the back of your leg isn't bleeding" :roflmao:
 

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Don't know if it's been mentioned... but something great I heard from a veteran instructor is- press your big toes into the top of your boot. You can try it statically when you're standing. Get in your athletic stance, try raising your big toes, you'll instantly feel your body get about another inch forward or so.

What do we do with the rest of the foot while pulling the big toe upward? The other little piggies don't get to play?


Or you can do what some other instructors did at the hill I started at- the ol' bottle cap trick. Get a bottle cap, tape it on your boot cuff, facing in towards your leg of course. "You'll know you're forward when the back of your leg isn't bleeding" :roflmao:

I certainly do not believe in the myth that the front part of the boot is good and the rear is bad. I hold the view that both front and rear of the cuff served completely different functions at different points during a ski turn.

The ski boot is basically the intermediary between the leg/foot and the ski. How does the power/energy/signal/communication/guidance get transmitted to the ski.

This is a interesting video.
 

markojp

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What do we do with the rest of the foot while pulling the big toe upward? The other little piggies don't get to play?




I certainly do not believe in the myth that the front part of the boot is good and the rear is bad. I hold the view that both front and rear of the cuff served completely different functions at different points during a ski turn.

The ski boot is basically the intermediary between the leg/foot and the ski. How does the power/energy/signal/communication/guidance get transmitted to the ski.

This is a interesting video.

Thank you! Talking about what feet do in ski boots is like speaking alien languages for a whole lot of skiers. Unfortunately ski instructors are often the worst at propagating vague 'junk information' about what they believe* is going on. It probably started out with a good explanation with a good clinician, but gets distorted by the lens of previous half understanding and disseminated into lessons.

* RE: Beliefs always need to be tested, reviewed, re-examined, reconsidered, etc.... before being repeated. If someone tells me that you need to roll up on the ball of the foot to get cuff pressure, I'll always ask why and where, and ask what they think is the mostly like ski/snow performance outcome is likely to be. Most can't feel their tails washing out because they've been at it so long.... without refection. That's my small r rant for the day.
 
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markojp

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So I've done some searching and reading of threads on getting out of the backseat for others... lots of "pull the feet back" and "flex the ankles". I, like many other intermediates [see skill naming thread] have headspace issues on getting that launch down the hill. When snow conditions are good and terrain is reasonably mellow, I can manage to stay committed and at least try, but overall I have a pretty bad backseat problem; I pull up the hill when it gets steeper, which leads to lack of bite and lack of commit, and then eventually get going faster and bail to quadricep braking and that's all she wrote, folks.

I've been working hard on easy terrain (my local little regional park mountain with nothing particularly steep, like a greenish-blue) to get the CoM forward; I think in general I'm still stuck with my CoM back, and within my BoS (eventually would like to get to that infinity where CoM ahead of BoS). Here's me on that easier terrain, and this is close to as good as I can ski. It gets much uglier.


View attachment 164291

Here's my question: I've got 5 days of skiing by myself on whatever timeline I want coming up next week. No kids, no need to do anything but enjoy skiing and try to break some bad habits where I get spooked on steeper terrain or non-hero snow and start doing dumb things.

What sort of terrain should I use to continue deprogramming myself of the fear of CoM forward of the BoS? Very comfortable terrain? Slightly uncomfortable terrain? The sort of terrain I can ski without much/any skidding? Steeper than that?

I think many, many of my problems stem from getting scared-ish when on uncomfortable terrain, leaning back, the vicious cycle of poor turns with little bite sapping confidence leading to leaning up the hill leading to... What's a good progression of terrain, or drills, or lesson? or what to work on this for the next week?

How forward is forward, and where is forward? The former, 2-3". The latter, down the hill.... and that isn't necessarily dependent on where the skis are pointing.
 

James

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I'll always ask why and where,
Good point. Almost nothing is a constant move, but that’s rarely mentioned.

If you really want to get into the front of your boots, toward the tips of your skis, don’t lift the toes. You’re going to need them. Plus, there’s no way that tiny TA muscle can pull your body this far.

872BD688-31A9-4101-B4C8-6683A9678418.gif


95DA2915-0008-4A14-8DD8-8AE5345B02BA.jpeg

But don’t forget the tail!

E674864B-28E3-4AEA-9243-79143999041D.jpeg


Helps to have a “playful” relatively soft, “progressive” mounted ski.
 
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Tony S

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Good point. Almost nothing is a constant move, but that’s rarely mentioned.

If you really want to get into the front of your boots, toward the tips of your skis, don’t lift the toes. You’re going to need them. Plus, there’s no way that tiny TA muscle can pull your body this far.

View attachment 171389

View attachment 171401
But don’t forget the tail!

View attachment 171390

Helps to have a “playful” relatively soft, “progressive” mounted ski.
Is it necessary to have a different jacket for tips vs. tails?
 

slow-line-fast

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Most can't feel their tails washing out because they've been at it so long.... without refection.
Such a crucial point for instruction. We may see a technical inefficiency, and have a different movement pattern we wish a skier to learn. But just saying that is not effective because for the skier, that inefficiency is skiing as they know it. So we need to focus drills on learning new movement patterns (in super easy terrain), and work to get their buy-in on the reprogramming process.
 

KingGrump

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But just saying that is not effective because for the skier, that inefficiency is skiing as they know it. So we need to focus drills on learning new movement patterns (in super easy terrain), and work to get their buy-in on the reprogramming process.

I see you are from the kinder and gentler generation.
At Taos, we just toss them down one of the runs off the West Basin Ridge. Instant enlightenment.
 

Crank

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I see you are from the kinder and gentler generation.
At Taos, we just toss them down one of the runs off the West Basin Ridge. Instant enlightenment.
Essentially what I was talking about in post 2 of this thread.

Full circle we have now come.
 

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