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Help me narrow my research/demo list for a new all-mountain Tahoe ski

Mike Thomas

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Your quiver is odd.

The 116 Star 7 throws everything off. How often do you ski it per year? I think it is making you look at skis a touch too wide to 'fill the gap', a narrower (10_) more versatile ski at the top end would allow a much better middle ski. Well, you can (and should) still buy a better middle ski anyway but the quiver looks even odder then. You want a lighter weight fun playful ski that doesn't get pushed around and has some dampness. Your knees aren't the best and can feel the weight of skis on chairlifts. You know how you get it all- lighter weight, more playful, damp and less knocked around by crud? You buy a slightly narrower ski. 88/90 not 100.

See? I just narrowed your list.
 

Lauren

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If you're missing something from the list I'd say try the Rossignol Stargazer
2022 Rossignol Black Ops Stargazer I'm honestly blown away by that and the MIndbender 98 Ti Alliance in this category.
@laine - This ^ was my exact thought when reading through your list of skis…although I would even entertain the 101-underfoot (at 163 length) Black Ops Rallybird Ti for a little extra stability. Technically outside of your width range you listed, but well worth looking at to replace the Santa Ana.
 

Philpug

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@laine - This ^ was my exact thought when reading through your list of skis…although I would even entertain the 101-underfoot (at 163 length) Black Ops Rallybird Ti for a little extra stability. Technically outside of your width range you listed, but well worth looking at to replace the Santa Ana.
These new Black Ops are sooo much NOT like the old 7's, they are good. ;) The Rallybird Ti or even non Ti depending on how that shorter length bends. I am apprehensive of the shortest ski in the collection, especially when the get down into and below the mid 150's. Because of the need for a binding plate that will accomidate a 340 BSL, yes many brands do not scale the plate down for a small boot, they can get very planky underfoot. You need to look how the skis bends, and not by just flexing the ski by the ends, but flex it at the contact points where it will touch the snow ... and not in the normal adult size but the size you are considering.

I agree with @Mike Thomas I don't think anyone your size needs a 116 .... mayyyybe a high One-Oh-Something and put a upper 80-90 ski in there.
 

Tricia

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I agree with @Mike Thomas I don't think anyone your size needs a 116 .... mayyyybe a high One-Oh-Something and put a upper 80-90 ski in there.
I agree with this.
I'm bigger than @laine and my widest ski is the Rossignol Rallybird Ti
 
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laine

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Well, I agree - the Star 7 is a bit of an anomaly. I got them used during that season in Tahoe where we got dumps every week - I think it was 2017/18? (@Tricia - IIRC, I bought them from a woman who worked at Start Haus.) I definitely used them that season. And I used them a few times in Utah. Last time I used them was in Japan in 2019. You are all correct in that I don't use them often. But they're there....and not sure we get enough powder to replace them....

My regular rotation skis are the Laser AX and the Santa Ana. And the Santa Ana is 100 - so I was lowering that range for replacement to the low/mid 90s. I just hadn't considered the 80s so much because the Laser AX is so versatile and will be my go-to if there is no fresh snow for a while.

On paper, I'm most intrigued by the Santa Ana 93 (which I know is on the slightly heavier side), the Sheeva 9 (which doesn't seem to get a lot of review love), the Mindbender 98Ti (widest of the bunch), the Nela 96 (mostly because I love my AX's), and the Secret 96 (though I am worried that the Volkl might be too stiff for me).

I have reading more on the Stargazer and am definitely curious - but feel like I might be between sizes (154 vs 162) given the tip/tail rise. I'm also curious how it does in the Tahoe crud without any metal in it. Hoping I can find it to demo - doesn't look like Palisades carries Rossi's.

@Philpug - Not sure how I can avoid going with the smallest size of a ski. For a few on the list, there is one smaller size. But I do get what you're saying. I have found that in some smaller skis - the flex isn't adjusted to the expected weight/size of the skier.

@Mike Thomas - If I consider 88/90 - that would prob include the Santa Ana 88, Black Pearl 88, Kore 91 W, Mindbender 88Ti, Nela 88. So I'm not sure that narrows my list at all. :D
 

Tricia

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On paper, I'm most intrigued by the Santa Ana 93 (which I know is on the slightly heavier side), the Sheeva 9 (which doesn't seem to get a lot of review love), the Mindbender 98Ti (widest of the bunch), the Nela 96 (mostly because I love my AX's), and the Secret 96 (though I am worried that the Volkl might be too stiff for me).
The new Secret 96 is not what I would consider too stiff. In fact the Mindbender 98 Ti is stiffer.
I really like the "Tailored" construction that Völkl is implementing. They sent me 2 pair 163 and 170 which I skied back to back and I can absolutely feel the benefit of Tailored construction.
 

Tricia

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Philpug

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@Philpug - Not sure how I can avoid going with the smallest size of a ski. For a few on the list, there is one smaller size. But I do get what you're saying. I have found that in some smaller skis - the flex isn't adjusted to the expected weight/size of the skier.
You can't but you can avoid ones that a disproportionate and to do that you have to look at each on their own merits.

and the Secret 96 (though I am worried that the Volkl might be too stiff for me).
*This again is where some people are working off of dated information. With Volkl's new 3D sidecut and Tailored Titinal Frame, Volkl did a great job is scaling the new M6 and Secret 96 for all sizes. (Tricia posted the same thing as I was typing), the same with the new Rossi Black Ops verses the old 7 series. It has never been more true that we can no longer say "X brand/series/model always/never worked for me".

*Again, I am not just answering you but other eyes that might have thougth the same thing and might be lurking
 
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laine

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@Tricia - maybe. I’m 155cm tall so just wondering if that would be a little long. I haven’t seen them in person, so don’t have a great sense of the tip/tail rise. But Palisades does demo them, so I should be able to check them out at the mtn. We ended up getting a rental in Tahoe Donner for Jan 1-Mar 31, so should get some time in up there. Will you be at Blue Zone? (Looking forward to see if they have the Rossi’s to demo once we have some snow.)
 

Viking9

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The middle ski of a three ski Tahoe quiver is a tough one.For starters you have to erase the 2010-2012 years, Kevin McHale and Larry Bird are not walking through that door.
Freezing and thawing will always be in play , I think you have to go hard snow bias in mid to high 80’s.
We all know SJ really likes those Swiss sticks !!
 
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laine

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Figured I'd give an update now that I've demoed some skis. I do want to acknowledge what @Philpug has called out before - demoing is so variable, since I have no control over the ski tune and binding. That said, here are my initial thoughts, doing a minimum of 3-4 runs per ski (some I skied longer), in the order that I skied them:

Demo Day 1
Volkl Secret 96 in 156
- Great ski. Skied the ungroomed and crud really well. Very damp, but easy to carve on the groomers. On the heavier side. I quite liked it, but wondered if it would be a tiring ski to ski all day. It wants to be worked.

K2 Mindbender 98Ti in 154 - Liked it. Checked all the boxes, and was happy with it...until I got on the Nela.

Stöckli Nela 88 in 152 - Per my note that I posted on Stockli thread: "Wow! Color me impressed! Cut through the crud and I took it on some bumps, and it performed way better than I had anticipated. I had no issue releasing the tails and they were nimble, but also went through the ungroomed stuff and the slush that had started to form (it was a bit warm today)." I just had a ton of fun on this ski. It put a smile on my face. Top of the list.

Armada Reliance 92 in 156 - Wasn't on my radar, but both the Santa Ana 93 and Nela 96 were out, so the demo shop guy recommended it. It skied well, but just didn't excite me.

Demo Day 2
Nordica Santa Ana 93 in 158
- Super fun ski. This is the shape I'm used to (coming off a 2017 Santa Ana 100), so it was comfortable and has the metal my current ski doesn't to give it a bit more dampness. No issues in the moguls and the crud, and also carved quite nicely. Top of the list.

Stöckli Nela 96 in 156 - This is where I wonder if the tune came into play. The skis definitely needed a proper wax. Not as nimble as the Nela 88 (obviously). And I caught my tails a couple times. It was still somewhat early in the day, so I don't think I was being lazy with my turns (in terms of not finishing them). Just easier to finish my turns on the 88 - maybe because it's a couple cm shorter? I mentioned it to the demo shop guy (as well as telling him the skis needed a wax), and he said that it's also possible the tails needed to be de-tuned. Regardless, I just liked the way 88s better. I dunno - just not as fun as the 88s and I didn't love them. (FYI @AmyPJ.)

Salomon Stance W 88 in 154 - Another one not on my radar. After the Nela 96, I wanted to get back on either the 88 or SA 93, but both were out. Not as "turny" as I tend to like, but overall, I liked the ski way better than the Nela 96 I had just gotten off. I looked up the specs afterwards and saw it has a larger turning radius than what I tend to gravitate to. Also saw multiple reviews complaining about the topsheet (unattractive/boring IMHO - but that was not the issue) chipping after only a fews days of skiing.

Yes, it's a lot, but given Palisades gives you the chance to just swap as much as you want, I went for it!

At this point, it's between the Santa Ana 93 and Nela 88. I found that I'm gravitating towards that 88-93-ish range. It's interesting because they are quite different in shape and weight. So just need to think on it a bit and might try to see if I can ski them back to back on the same day/same conditions.

If I were to rank based on topsheet - in order of best to worst (obviously quite subjective here):
Mindbender
Santa Ana
Nela 88
Nela 96
Secret
Reliance
Stance

But that's just my fun ranking.

Oh, and update to my current quiver:
  • All Mountain/less than 8 inches of snow: 2017 Santa Ana, 100 waist, size 161 - the version before they added metal to the skis - this is the ski I want to replace/update
  • Carving/no fresh snow: 2022 Stöckli Laser AX, 78 waist, size 154 - NEW!!!
  • Powder: 2014 Rossignol Star 7, 110 waist, size 162 (I had erroneously previously thought it was 116, but re-confirmed)
 

Philpug

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Do you remember what binding was on each ski?
 

AmyPJ

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Well, it seems we have similar taste in skis. I skied the Stance just this week and also did not love the longer turn radius.
Both of us coming off the Santa Ana 100 (which I still miss in untracked powder--they were just so easy in that stuff) but too light in other types of snow. I also gravitated to the Santa Ana 88 and now 98 because of that familiar shape that is so fun in soft snow and crud.

I'm still finding the sweet spot on my Nela 88s and the more I ski them, the more I'm finding that tail is way more fun on groomers at least than the SA 88s tail was. I'm also seeking out piles and more moguls, which is pretty remarkable for me. I was popping off them yesterday and my husband even commented, "did you just pop off that and catch some air?" :ogbiggrin: Hopefully I can try the 96s soon for comparison.
 
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laine

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Do you remember what binding was on each ski?
Dang. I wish I noted that. IIRC, the Nelas and Stances had Wardens. I think the Mindbender had Marker. I just don’t remember the others. I’ll check next time I’m up on two weeks. How much would that have impacted things?
 
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laine

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@Philpug - I checked on the top skis on my list and the bindings are:
Nela - Salomon Warden demo
Santa Ana - Marker Squire demo
Mindbender - Marker Squire demo

How would this impact a ski for my tiny BSL?

FYI, I have some Attack 13 GW bindings that I plan on mounting on my new skis. Bought them on sale 2 years ago when I thought I was going to get skis then. But Covid....
 

Philpug

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Nela - Salomon Warden demo
Santa Ana - Marker Squire demo
Mindbender - Marker Squire demo
The height of the three are bout the same, 26-27mm where the retail versions are much lower, aroud 20mm but the Markers are a negative delta where the Salomon is postive. That will give you a much different feel, especially with your short 265mm BSL. If you might have felt that you couldn't quite get forward or felt that you were in the back seat, it was the binding.
 

TahoeWarrior

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Following . . .

And related question and comment. Several of you have helped and commented elsewhere on my helping my wife with her new Ski selection. She was debated Santa Ana 88 vs Nela 80 or Nela 88. She tried them all now in the proper sizing after getting on the Nela 88 in 160...and it's a WINNER. Thank @AmyPJ and a few others for good feedback. Now we're hunting to find them this week...I think I have a few leads:)


Binding Q: I know Stockli usually pairs with Warden's (perhaps for commercial reasons). However, I was looking at the Squire 11 for my wife on the Nela 88 as it seems they might be more readily available. (she's light - DIN usually 5 - boot 278). To me the salomon warden 11 (or rebranded same) vs marker squire 11 seem pretty darn similar....am I missing anything on the binding choices?
 

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