Help with Skis in the 10Something Range

[robertc3]

I need to replace my Soul 7s with something of the same general width as my everyday driver. I ski in the Washington Cascades 95% of the time, so snow is abundant but heavy. I know the Soul is much hated by serious skiers, but I had a ton of fun on that ski. It is miserable on hard snow or ice, but on soft snow it is very enjoyable. That said if someone offered me a replacement pair of Souls I would pass. I would like something with better edge hold on firm snow. This ski will be skied nearly every day of the season with my cheater GS skis only coming out on the truly hard snow days. That is maybe once or twice a season in the PNW. On moderately hard snow groomers I can make the Souls carve pretty well, though they are limited in their speed and a bit bouncy/chattery when going fast on firm snow. I would love for this new ski to improve on that performance, but I don't need a carving ski.

I am 6’-2” 180 lbs, 46 years old, I ski roughly 50 days per year, and like 70% of people am an expert. When I get to choose the run it is always double black off-piste. Pow, steeps, trees, chutes, bowls, bumps, drops, jumps, that is my jam. I like to ski very fast, generally much faster than most people skiing the terrain I like to ski. While I do love to ski fast and hard I do make mistakes and those mistakes need to be corrected or I may find myself hitting a tree. To make the corrections I need a ski that is quick to turn with a reasonably soft tail to smear around and dump speed. In the terrain I like to ski the Souls were a good get out of jail free card. On the terrain I have to ski to link the good stuff they were a problem.

The skis I have demoed so far are:
Rossi Sender and Sender TI
K2 Mindbender 108
Volkl Mantra 94 and 102.

Both the Sender and Sender TI felt good. They were like Soul 7s with the weaknesses improved (not fixed). I enjoyed them quite a bit and they felt great in the air, landings were solid.

The Mindbender was ok, but the tails didn’t allow me to unhook them and dump speed or whip a really fast turn when needed.

The Volkls may be fun for some people, but I couldn’t get them off my feet fast enough. I don’t hate many things, but I hated those skis.

Tomorrow I am planning to demo the Enforcer 104 Free. I am also very interested in the Enforcer 110 Free and the Black Crows Atris, but I can't find a place to demo them. I have two friends on the Atris and they both like them a lot. One is a guy who skis a lot like I do and we seem to have similar preferences in skis.

Any help from the ST folk would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Philpug]

What size are you skiing the Souls in and what size did you demo the other skis in? Also, what bindings are on your Souls and what demo bindings were on the other skis?

Both the Sender and Sender TI felt good. They were like Soul 7s with the weaknesses improved (not fixed). I enjoyed them quite a bit and they felt great in the air, landings were solid.

This raises my eyebrows....I found the only similarities between the Soul and the Sender Ti that they both have Rossignol written on them and not olny were the weaknesses not only improved, they were eliminated.

 

[dovski]

I need to replace my Soul 7s with something of the same general width as my everyday driver. I ski in the Washington Cascades 95% of the time, so snow is abundant but heavy. I know the Soul is much hated by serious skiers, but I had a ton of fun on that ski. It is miserable on hard snow or ice, but on soft snow it is very enjoyable. That said if someone offered me a replacement pair of Souls I would pass. I would like something with better edge hold on firm snow. This ski will be skied nearly every day of the season with my cheater GS skis only coming out on the truly hard snow days. That is maybe once or twice a season in the PNW. On moderately hard snow groomers I can make the Souls carve pretty well, though they are limited in their speed and a bit bouncy/chattery when going fast on firm snow. I would love for this new ski to improve on that performance, but I don't need a carving ski.

I am 6’-2” 180 lbs, 46 years old, I ski roughly 50 days per year, and like 70% of people am an expert. When I get to choose the run it is always double black off-piste. Pow, steeps, trees, chutes, bowls, bumps, drops, jumps, that is my jam. I like to ski very fast, generally much faster than most people skiing the terrain I like to ski. While I do love to ski fast and hard I do make mistakes and those mistakes need to be corrected or I may find myself hitting a tree. To make the corrections I need a ski that is quick to turn with a reasonably soft tail to smear around and dump speed. In the terrain I like to ski the Souls were a good get out of jail free card. On the terrain I have to ski to link the good stuff they were a problem.

The skis I have demoed so far are:
Rossi Sender and Sender TI
K2 Mindbender 108
Völkl Mantra 94 and 102.

Both the Sender and Sender TI felt good. They were like Soul 7s with the weaknesses improved (not fixed). I enjoyed them quite a bit and they felt great in the air, landings were solid.

The Mindbender was ok, but the tails didn’t allow me to unhook them and dump speed or whip a really fast turn when needed.

The Völkls may be fun for some people, but I couldn’t get them off my feet fast enough. I don’t hate many things, but I hated those skis.

Tomorrow I am planning to demo the Enforcer 104 Free. I am also very interested in the Enforcer 110 Free and the Black Crows Atris, but I can't find a place to demo them. I have two friends on the Atris and they both like them a lot. One is a guy who skis a lot like I do and we seem to have similar preferences in skis.

Any help from the ST folk would be appreciated. Thank you.

So I also ski in Washington and used to own a pair of Soul 7s. Bought them at a blowout price and could not sell them fast enough, was absolutely not the ski for me. I moved from them to the Enforcer 110, which is an amazing ski. It has the flex to do a nice job in moguls and bumps, edge hold for steeps and width for deeps. It is a great ski and a big big step up from the Soul 7 which I found far to soft and floppy. That said my daily driver is a Stockli SR95 which I love, cannot say enough good things about that ski which replaced my Enforcer 93.

Given where you ski and what you ski, my one question is why such a wide ski? I only use my Enforcer 110 on POW days, for everything else I find mid-90s width to be ideal in PNW. This time of year I actually miss my narrower carving skis given the conditions we ski. As you explore new skis you may want to try some more in that mid 90's range as I think you will find this really enhances your ski experience ... just my two cents

 

[robertc3]

What size are you skiing the Souls in and what size did you demo the other skis in? Also, what bindings are on your Souls and what demo bindings were on the other skis?

This raises my eyebrows....I found the only similarities between the Soul and the Sender Ti that they both have Rossignol written on them and not olny were the weaknesses not only improved, they were eliminated.

I am on 188 Souls with Look SPX 12. I tried the 186 Sender and the 180 Sender TI. They didn't have the TI in the 187 which would be the length I would need. I don't recall the exact model of demo binding, but it was a Look. Admittedly, the day I tried the skis we had 3 inches of dust on crust. Nothing felt great, but they felt very comfortable. I have a friend who skis the Sender TI and he warned me they would feel really different. I didn't notice as much difference as I was expecting. They were still a bit chattery, but the crust under the dust was nearly bulletproof melt crust, so really hard and bumpy. It wasn't the most pleasant of days, but I found pockets of softer here and there.

 

[robertc3]

Given where you ski and what you ski, my one question is why such a wide ski? I only use my Enforcer 110 on POW days, for everything else I find mid-90s width to be ideal in PNW. This time of year I actually miss my narrower carving skis given the conditions we ski. As you explore new skis you may want to try some more in that mid 90's range as I think you will find this really enhances your ski experience ... just my two cents

I will see what I can try in a smaller width, but I think the wider skis are what I will find most enjoyable. I think it has more to do with how I ski than the PNW geography and snow type. I like to send it down the hill and would describe my style as attacking and aggressive. The nice wide width of the Souls let me bounce off a bump, pound into a soft patch next to a tree, and know that the ski will support me. The way a ski lands in soft snow is critical to whether or not I will like it. That was the issue with the Mantra 102. I landed just slightly backseat and it shot out from under me and dumped me on my butt. On the Souls or the Senders that landing would have been no problem and I would have charged out of it.
I still have sufficient athleticism left hang it out there and enjoy doing that. As a younger man on skinnier skis I felt they didn't let me attack as these wider skis do. It isn't something to brag about by any means, but I didn't take my first tomahawk until a few years ago. I just wasn't skiing fast and hard enough on skinny skis to generate that kind of force. Now on something decently fat I can just let it rip with confidence, and the occasional blowup. I don't mean to say I am in any way reckless. I charge the hill but within my ability. It is extremely rare that I get out of balance for more than one turn and I just a handful of times a season. Any ski has to give me the confidence to keep skiing like this while I still can.

 

[dovski]

I will see what I can try in a smaller width, but I think the wider skis are what I will find most enjoyable. I think it has more to do with how I ski than the PNW geography and snow type. I like to send it down the hill and would describe my style as attacking and aggressive. The nice wide width of the Souls let me bounce off a bump, pound into a soft patch next to a tree, and know that the ski will support me. The way a ski lands in soft snow is critical to whether or not I will like it. That was the issue with the Mantra 102. I landed just slightly backseat and it shot out from under me and dumped me on my butt. On the Souls or the Senders that landing would have been no problem and I would have charged out of it.
I still have sufficient athleticism left hang it out there and enjoy doing that. As a younger man on skinnier skis I felt they didn't let me attack as these wider skis do. It isn't something to brag about by any means, but I didn't take my first tomahawk until a few years ago. I just wasn't skiing fast and hard enough on skinny skis to generate that kind of force. Now on something decently fat I can just let it rip with confidence, and the occasional blowup. I don't mean to say I am in any way reckless. I charge the hill but within my ability. It is extremely rare that I get out of balance for more than one turn and I just a handful of times a season. Any ski has to give me the confidence to keep skiing like this while I still can.

I hear you and personally do not like the mantra. That said I would hardly call the Soul 7 a stable ski for sending it given how soft it is. I think something like an Enforcer 94 or SR95 would give you much more stability and control especially at high speeds. Both skis have really nice flex profiles that do well in moguls bumps and crud. They also have metal in them which makes them a much more stable ski at high speeds and also helps them hold an edge much better than the soul 7s. That said the Soul 7 is a very forgiving ski and will not punish you as much for riding back seat ... etc. but the sacrifice there really is stability and control especially at higher speeds and on steeper terrain. I will say that I find a stiffer ski does promote better form as it gives you cues and real feedback that help with this.

One point you made was the need to make quicker turns and that is something a narrower and firmer ski will help you with. Much easier to go edge to edge on a narrower ski and much easier to get edge hold on a firmer ski. Whatever ski you consider try to demo it first as ultimately none of these recommendations matter if you do not enjoy skiing the ski

 

[David Chaus]

I will make a recommendation for skis that are designed with PNW skiers in mind, ON3P Woodman, either the 96 or 102. I have the 102 but for an everyday ski I would choose the 96, as I find the 102 a little more work to really rip groomers. Even with the 1/1 factory tune they can hold an edge really well, completely different animal from the Souls you've been on. Both handle deep snow far better than their widths would indicate, and they are amazingly stable in chop, crud and other variable conditions and pretty good in bumps.

 

[Philpug]

I am on 188 Souls with Look SPX 12. I tried the 186 Sender and the 180 Sender TI. They didn't have the TI in the 187 which would be the length I would need. I don't recall the exact model of demo binding, but it was a Look. Admittedly, the day I tried the skis we had 3 inches of dust on crust. Nothing felt great, but they felt very comfortable. I have a friend who skis the Sender TI and he warned me they would feel really different. I didn't notice as much difference as I was expecting. They were still a bit chattery, but the crust under the dust was nearly bulletproof melt crust, so really hard and bumpy. It wasn't the most pleasant of days, but I found pockets of softer here and there.

Before demoing a ski again read THIS. I think you were victim of the first three things. Very well they had the Look Konect on them, way too high for that ski. Bad choice in the regular Sender and yes the Ti in the 187 would be the better option. I have the 180 here (mounted with a Look Pivot 15) and do not find any of the short comings you found with the ski.

 

[robertc3]

I will make a recommendation for skis that are designed with PNW skiers in mind, ON3P Woodman, either the 96 or 102. I have the 102 but for an everyday ski I would choose the 96, as I find the 102 a little more work to really rip groomers. Even with the 1/1 factory tune they can hold an edge really well, completely different animal from the Souls you've been on. Both handle deep snow far better than their widths would indicate, and they are amazingly stable in chop, crud and other variable conditions and pretty good in bumps.

I will checkout the ON3P. I love that they are designed and made in the PNW. The guys at ON3P were awesome in answering some questions I had previously, so I will give them a call.

 

[robertc3]

Point #1 was certainly a problem, but not something over which I have much control. I hadn't planned to replace my skis this season, but I ripped out a 3" chunk of edge two weeks ago, so the Souls are done unexpectedly early. I was thinking of finding new skis next season, but now I can't wait. I was at least able to ski all five skis the same day. Tomorrow on the Enforcers will be a totally different day. No new snow at all and not even the same hill.

Point #2 I don't think was as much of an issue. They all had decent tunes on them. Not race tunes, but these aren't race skis. My kids both race, so I know what really sharp skis feel like, what decent feels like, and what dull feels like. I was actually surprised at how well all of the skis I tried bit into the firm snow underneath.

Point #3 was not on my radar. This the kind of thing that many Pugs obsess about, but not something I have investigated much. It is worth paying more attention to it. Thank you.

 

[Mike Rogers]

I second @David Chaus 's ON3P Woodsman recommendation. My partner Liz has the Woodsman 108 and she really likes them. They're especially fun in heavier, coastal style snow. They seem to punch above their weight (or width) for float and they are more forgiving and better in the air than the Mantra 102 (which she also owns). The Mantra has better edge grip, but it's a more traditional, less playful design.

 

[GregK]

Salomon QST 106 would be another great contender in this width. Forgiving like the Soul 7 but has a backbone and very stable for it’s weight. Flatter tail than the Enforcer 104 if you don’t like it’s surfy nature in the tails. Enforcer 104 another great option of course that’s easy to ski as well but still solid in variable conditions. Dynastar MFree 108 is very surfy and easy to ski if you like to ski in tight spots in the 182cm length but still good on soft groomers.

Prefer all the above to the Atris that I don’t find very quick edge to edge, stable in tracked out snow/crud or very damp.

 

[markojp]

I am on 188 Souls with Look SPX 12. I tried the 186 Sender and the 180 Sender TI. They didn't have the TI in the 187 which would be the length I would need. I don't recall the exact model of demo binding, but it was a Look. Admittedly, the day I tried the skis we had 3 inches of dust on crust. Nothing felt great, but they felt very comfortable. I have a friend who skis the Sender TI and he warned me they would feel really different. I didn't notice as much difference as I was expecting. They were still a bit chattery, but the crust under the dust was nearly bulletproof melt crust, so really hard and bumpy. It wasn't the most pleasant of days, but I found pockets of softer here and there.

Don't be afraid to move the bindings to the -2 position on the Sender, and ski it one length longer. If you do ski the short length, go to -3. The Sender Ti bears (thankfully) no resemblance to the Soul 7. I could own the 187 Sender Ti mounted with a pivot at -3. Best wider ski Rossi's made in a long long time.

 

[Quandary]

Here is a 3rd for the ON3P Woodsman. I'd go 108. The ON3P is a vastly different ski than the Soul 7. That said it is a vastly better ski.....

If you do go ON3P I would get them mounted at shop that has a Wintersteiger or Montana CNC tune machine. Have the bases closely inspected for a bad factory tune. You may need a base restructure. While they are at it have the edge bevel changed from 1:1 to 1:2 or more side bevel if that is what you prefer. That will be better for your intended use as a DD. All ON3P come with 1:1 edge angels. There has been a number of funky tunes coming out of their shop. My 2019 Billy Goats were a mess, but my 2019 Woodsman 118s were fine. So you never know.

Curious what length 108TI you demo'd. Getting the tails to release on mine has never been a issue I have experienced in any conditions.

 

[ski otter 2]

I need to replace my Soul 7s with something of the same general width as my everyday driver. I ski in the Washington Cascades 95% of the time, so snow is abundant but heavy. I know the Soul is much hated by serious skiers, but I had a ton of fun on that ski. It is miserable on hard snow or ice, but on soft snow it is very enjoyable. That said if someone offered me a replacement pair of Souls I would pass. I would like something with better edge hold on firm snow. This ski will be skied nearly every day of the season with my cheater GS skis only coming out on the truly hard snow days. That is maybe once or twice a season in the PNW. On moderately hard snow groomers I can make the Souls carve pretty well, though they are limited in their speed and a bit bouncy/chattery when going fast on firm snow. I would love for this new ski to improve on that performance, but I don't need a carving ski.

I am 6’-2” 180 lbs, 46 years old, I ski roughly 50 days per year, and like 70% of people am an expert. When I get to choose the run it is always double black off-piste. Pow, steeps, trees, chutes, bowls, bumps, drops, jumps, that is my jam. I like to ski very fast, generally much faster than most people skiing the terrain I like to ski. While I do love to ski fast and hard I do make mistakes and those mistakes need to be corrected or I may find myself hitting a tree. To make the corrections I need a ski that is quick to turn with a reasonably soft tail to smear around and dump speed. In the terrain I like to ski the Souls were a good get out of jail free card. On the terrain I have to ski to link the good stuff they were a problem.

The skis I have demoed so far are:
Rossi Sender and Sender TI
K2 Mindbender 108
Völkl Mantra 94 and 102.

Both the Sender and Sender TI felt good. They were like Soul 7s with the weaknesses improved (not fixed). I enjoyed them quite a bit and they felt great in the air, landings were solid.

The Mindbender was ok, but the tails didn’t allow me to unhook them and dump speed or whip a really fast turn when needed.

The Völkls may be fun for some people, but I couldn’t get them off my feet fast enough. I don’t hate many things, but I hated those skis.

Tomorrow I am planning to demo the Enforcer 104 Free. I am also very interested in the Enforcer 110 Free and the Black Crows Atris, but I can't find a place to demo them. I have two friends on the Atris and they both like them a lot. One is a guy who skis a lot like I do and we seem to have similar preferences in skis.

Any help from the ST folk would be appreciated. Thank you.

A word of encouragement.
I was skiing today in 3" to 5" of powder, depending. (Front Range, Colorado, not PNW.) Saw some guys on that ski that were skiing the way you describe. They have always been there , but today and lately I've noticed a number of mostly young, very good, quick, fast off piste skiers who charge the Soul 7 in conditions - and maybe in a way - it seemingly was not made for: highly variable, bumps, steeps, rough edges of runs, trees, crud. They compensate for how soft flexing that ski is by very quick, athletic turning and responses, including getting some mild air between bumps. Some of them very good skiers. But they are not relying much on the type of stable, damp carving qualities I usually depend on, and that most folks on this website may rely on also. They use that soft flex carve of the Soul 7 to just keep it moving well, very fast, responsive. And it really works. If this describes you, well, hats off.

If so, don't get deflected. Get the ski that works for you, and that style that somehow works for a lot of guys, on that ski - if you feel like it.

 

[ski otter 2]

P.S. If your skiing style is like the ones I've noticed, then your reactions to those particular skis you've demoed make a lot of sense, really fit. For instance, I like the MB 108, but it does not easily have a quick flexing tail or rapid response in the way the Soul 7 does (took me a lot of tuning tricks to get it to be a bit more quick turning responsive). The Mantra 102 lends itself to a carving-centered style - charge the stable carve, not a rapid response style.
I didn't like the Sender Ti, for about the same reason as you found it slightly wanting, though you liked it: to me it has a mild dampness problem still, and wasn't a particularly great carver - to me again. It was just a blah ski for me, not outstanding in any one area, comparatively, even though a lot of skiers like it, and for them it is outstanding. Other Rossis were/are swell for me, though - both those fun Soul 7s (softer flexing) and others that are way stiffer. But not in the width category you are looking at. My current favorite fat powder/crud ski, for instance, is the Rossi Black Ops 118 (now Black Ops Gamer 118).

Fortunately, they make a lot of skis for every type of skier!

 

[Ron]

Moment Wildcat 108 in 190.

ALL new skis need a full tune including having the bases checked and leveled.

 

[GregK]

Just re-read the original post as I was quickly reading it on the chairlift and didn’t see all the “high speed skiing” comments and only saw the “skiing on Soul 7s” currently ones.

Agree with Ron with the 190cm Wildcat 108 as well as adding the MFree 108 in the 192cm(much more stable and serious than the 182cm) and if you’re not afraid to go wider, the 2021 Faction CT 3.0 which is mind blowing good for it’s width. The 184cm 3.0 rips carves at 50-60mph in it’s sleep let alone the 190cm version but not too hard to handle off piste or in bumps.

 

[Ecimmortal]

Here is a 3rd for the ON3P Woodsman. I'd go 108. The ON3P is a vastly different ski than the Soul 7. That said it is a vastly better ski.....

If you do go ON3P I would get them mounted at shop that has a Wintersteiger or Montana CNC tune machine. Have the bases closely inspected for a bad factory tune. You may need a base restructure. While they are at it have the edge bevel changed from 1:1 to 1:2 or more side bevel if that is what you prefer. That will be better for your intended use as a DD. All ON3P come with 1:1 edge angels. There has been a number of funky tunes coming out of their shop. My 2019 Billy Goats were a mess, but my 2019 Woodsman 118s were fine. So you never know.

Curious what length 108TI you demo'd. Getting the tails to release on mine has never been a issue I have experienced in any conditions.

FWIW They had a Reichmann DTSU that was acting funky and has been pulled out of the production line. I personally have not had a bad pair, but they have obviously happened. I think the numbers are pretty small and they have offered to pay for shipping back to them to fix the issue.

Just re-read the original post as I was quickly reading it on the chairlift and didn’t see all the “high speed skiing” comments and only saw the “skiing on Soul 7s” currently ones.

Agree with Ron with the 190cm Wildcat 108 as well as adding the MFree 108 in the 192cm(much more stable and serious than the 182cm) and if you’re not afraid to go wider, the 2021 Faction CT 3.0 which is mind blowing good for it’s width. The 184cm 3.0 rips carves at 50-60mph in it’s sleep let alone the 190cm version but not too hard to handle off piste or in bumps.

If we are going to mention Wildcat then the ON3P Jeffery should be in the discussion. But I feel as if both may be more twinned than what the OP is looking for. That being said I'm a Jeffery 108 lover that would probably be on the Wildcat if ON3P or the Jeffery went away.

Also a PNW skier here.

 

[GregK]

If we are going to mention Wildcat then the ON3P Jeffery should be in the discussion. But I feel as if both may be more twinned than what the OP is looking for.

I’d probably go with the Woodsman over the Jeffrey as the mounting point is a bit more traditional and it’s tail isn’t as loose as the Jeffrey. Wildcats are much stronger carvers vs either but still easy to pivot in tight spots. All are great skis though!