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Help with Skis in the 10Something Range

sparty

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I've found my Bent Chet 100s to be pretty damn versatile in conditions not terribly different from what you described, but I'm not quite sure if the tails would be soft enough. I think they are smear-able, but I'm usually coming off race skis when I get on them, so it might be that at that point, anything is going to feel smear-able. I'd think it might be worth demoing if you could find a pair of the 188s to test.
 

anders_nor

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Bent Chetler 100 in 188cm is way to stiff tails vs shovels. Its better in other lengths, still not great. favours very light and not so powerfull chargy riding.

With that said it does carve fairly well when your not going fast, or anything is in front of it, also feels very light in the air (maybe because it is light :eek: )
 

PowHog

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The Dynastar M Free 108 currently gets lots of love over at TGR, some good review there. In particular the 192 is hyped as a substantial tool crushing everything in it's path but still playful and versatile enough.

Personally love the Rustler 11s but at 114 underfoot they might be a tad on the wide side despite holding an edge and carve decently too. How about a Cochise?
 
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robertc3

robertc3

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I had the chance to put my hands on a pair of Wildcat 108s at a shop in Bend, OR. They only had shorter lengths, so nothing that fit for me to purchase. I was a bit surprised by the amount of tail splay. It was pretty much a twin tip. The graphics were fantastic.

The Wildcat and the Woodsman both look really interesting. Blister's statement of "Who is it for" on the Wildcat sounds like me "High-intermediate to expert skiers who ski with more of an active style and who prioritize agility, playfulness, and strength in their mid-fat all-mountain ski." I chatted with someone from Moment and he talked up the strength and long effective edge on the Wildcats as to why they can carve and charge in spite of their rocker profile.

The Woodsman, according to Blister, maybe tends more towards the damp, charging end of the spectrum without as much playfulness. "The Woodsman 108 is quite stable, pretty playful, versatile across a lot of conditions and terrain, and accepts a wide variety of skiing styles. That’s a combo that we think a lot of skiers will like — especially if you value stability over a super light, super nimble feel."

Has anyone ween on both the Wildcat and Woodsman who could speak to the carving ability of the Wildcat as it compares to the Woodsman and the playfulness of the Woodsman compared to the Wildcat? Those two characteristics seem to be potentially the differentiators between the two skis.

I have been paying a lot of attention to my stance as it relates to terrain lately because so much of the performance of these skis is determined by how hard you push on the shovels. My issue is that when carving groomers I am hard on the front of my boots but off-piste in soft snow I am much more centered. Maybe that is an adaptation to the float of my Souls or maybe it is just how I ski. Off-piste I rarely think about I am skiing, I think about where I want to go and what the snow is like there. I wouldn't want a ski I had to drive really hard off-piste because that hard forward stance is not conducive to being balanced in the air, nor floating deeper snow on skis of this width.

I am still looking at a bunch of the other suggested options and there are so many good ones.
 

Ken_R

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I need to replace my Soul 7s with something of the same general width as my everyday driver. I ski in the Washington Cascades 95% of the time, so snow is abundant but heavy. I know the Soul is much hated by serious skiers, but I had a ton of fun on that ski. It is miserable on hard snow or ice, but on soft snow it is very enjoyable. That said if someone offered me a replacement pair of Souls I would pass. I would like something with better edge hold on firm snow. This ski will be skied nearly every day of the season with my cheater GS skis only coming out on the truly hard snow days. That is maybe once or twice a season in the PNW. On moderately hard snow groomers I can make the Souls carve pretty well, though they are limited in their speed and a bit bouncy/chattery when going fast on firm snow. I would love for this new ski to improve on that performance, but I don't need a carving ski.

I am 6’-2” 180 lbs, 46 years old, I ski roughly 50 days per year, and like 70% of people am an expert. When I get to choose the run it is always double black off-piste. Pow, steeps, trees, chutes, bowls, bumps, drops, jumps, that is my jam. I like to ski very fast, generally much faster than most people skiing the terrain I like to ski. While I do love to ski fast and hard I do make mistakes and those mistakes need to be corrected or I may find myself hitting a tree. To make the corrections I need a ski that is quick to turn with a reasonably soft tail to smear around and dump speed. In the terrain I like to ski the Souls were a good get out of jail free card. On the terrain I have to ski to link the good stuff they were a problem.

The skis I have demoed so far are:
Rossi Sender and Sender TI
K2 Mindbender 108
Völkl Mantra 94 and 102.

Both the Sender and Sender TI felt good. They were like Soul 7s with the weaknesses improved (not fixed). I enjoyed them quite a bit and they felt great in the air, landings were solid.

The Mindbender was ok, but the tails didn’t allow me to unhook them and dump speed or whip a really fast turn when needed.

The Völkls may be fun for some people, but I couldn’t get them off my feet fast enough. I don’t hate many things, but I hated those skis.

Tomorrow I am planning to demo the Enforcer 104 Free. I am also very interested in the Enforcer 110 Free and the Black Crows Atris, but I can't find a place to demo them. I have two friends on the Atris and they both like them a lot. One is a guy who skis a lot like I do and we seem to have similar preferences in skis.

Any help from the ST folk would be appreciated. Thank you.

We are very close in size weight and age.

I really liked the Soul 7's when they first came out as long as I kept them on soft snow and at slower speeds. They were awesome for navigating really tight and tricky treed terrain at slow speeds. On open slopes with harder snow they held an edge if I did my part and kept speeds in check. The Soul 7's actually have nice grip and support underfoot but that goes away VERY quickly towards the tips and tails which are very soft. They were not the best skis on heavier, wind affected powder. The Nordica Patron were very similar but vastly improved in all areas. Still, no charger in heavy snow.

I loved the Mantra M5 but did not like the 102's because in that width I expect a bit more forgiveness and suspension and the Mantra 102's just want to stick to the snow and provide lots of grip. They pretty much have to live on edge and at speed to be happy. I love that in narrower skis but on a 10something, not so much. It just gets tiring after a few runs that are bumped up. On smooth, windbuffed, wide open steep alpine faces they rule though.

All that said, skis I think you would like?

Salomon QST 106 188cm
Nordica Enforcer 104 Free 186cm (they are heavy though)
Moment Wildcat 108 184cm
Icelantic Nomad 105 191cm
Dynastar M Free 108 182cm
Blizzard Rustler 10 188cm
Black Crows Atris 184cm
Armada Tracer 108 188cm
 
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robertc3

robertc3

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All that said, skis I think you would like?

Salomon QST 106 188cm
Nordica Enforcer 104 Free 186cm (they are heavy though)
Moment Wildcat 108 184cm
Icelantic Nomad 105 191cm
Dynastar M Free 108 182cm
Blizzard Rustler 10 188cm
Black Crows Atris 184cm
Armada Tracer 108 188cm
I enjoyed the 104 Free. The weight and more directional mounting took some getting used to in the air. I didn't feel really balanced. The Wildcat, QST and M Free 108 are definitely on my list. The Nomad 105 is one that looks interesting, but I haven't read much on it. I liked Blister's comment that for a ski of its width it is one of the best carvers. Gotta study up on the Armada Tracers.

You seem to be a fan of Black Crows given your quiver. How would you compare the Atris to the Soul and the Wildcat? My friends on the Atris can't say enough good things about them, but many of the posters here were not big fans.
 

Ken_R

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I enjoyed the 104 Free. The weight and more directional mounting took some getting used to in the air. I didn't feel really balanced. The Wildcat, QST and M Free 108 are definitely on my list. The Nomad 105 is one that looks interesting, but I haven't read much on it. I liked Blister's comment that for a ski of its width it is one of the best carvers. Gotta study up on the Armada Tracers.

You seem to be a fan of Black Crows given your quiver. How would you compare the Atris to the Soul and the Wildcat? My friends on the Atris can't say enough good things about them, but many of the posters here were not big fans.

The Black Crows are stiffer skis than the Soul, The Wildcat is also softer than the Black Crows I have tried but have a nice smooth feel and offer MUCH better support than the Soul while not being super stiff. The Moment skis construction is quite dialed. They are designed to be different. I loved them as well. I think the Atris is the most playful ski of the Black Crows wide ski lineup but it is by no means a noodle and stiffer than the Soul for sure but still has a nice round accesible flex at your size. It is a MUCH better carver on firmer snow than the Soul but still playful and has a nice suspension. I think the Atris is happy skiing both centered and also more forward if needed. It should adapt great to varying conditions which is a thing most Black Crows do well. Even the Nocta is hella fun in not so deep conditions. They dont have a ton of tip splay so if you want fantastic deep powder performance better get the longest length.
 

Mike Rogers

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How would you compare the Atris to the Soul and the Wildcat?

Blister's deep dive for the Atris compares it to the Soul7 and Wildcat 108.


Paywall, but worth it. If you buy Moment, you can get 10% off...so the subscription pays for itself!
 
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robertc3

robertc3

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Finally about to pull the trigger on the Wildcat 108 in a 190. There are so many great options out there and the more I read on them (became a Blister Member) and re-read this thread the more it seems like there are a dozen skis that could work and what I really need is to just get of the dime. Plus, Moment put last year's skis on sale today! Thanks to everyone for all of their great contributions to this thread!
 
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robertc3

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I have been holding off on a follow-up because while I have 14 days on the Wildcat 108s, I am dealing with a herniated disk that is preventing me from skiing at full effort or intensity. Unfortunately, it is likely going to be a season-long problem, so I guess now is as good a time as any. On a good day, I can ski at maybe 90%, on a not-so-good day, more like 50 or 60%. That missing 10% is really where I have the most fun and where I can’t wait to see how the Wildcats perform. I am expecting some very good things. Fingers crossed the cortisone injection I have scheduled gets me back to full speed.

What I have found so far is that they are good to very good off-piste. They are stable and powerful without being locked into the snow. They are very well balanced in the limited air that I can get. They require not thought or adjustment from my Souls in this regard which is awesome. The 190cm is plenty quick for me when I am feeling well and skiing well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to go down to the 184. When by back is screaming at me and I limited and slow they are not easy to handle in the bumps. I have to be forward, driving the skis, and unweighting pretty aggressively to allow the tails to clear whatever is behind me. With a center-mounted 190cm ski, there is a lot of tail back there. In crud, soft chop, or pow that isn’t an issue. It is just in tighter bumps that I have found somewhat challenging. Mostly that is me, not the ski. I have not had a chance to ski them in deep pow yet. I am hopeful that we get some of that soon.

Where I was really hoping to see a big step forward from my Souls was on firm groomers and that has absolutely been the case. Fortunately, we haven’t had much in the way of ice this season, but the edge hold on firm snow is far, far better with the Wildcats. They won’t be locked into the carve like a true carving ski, but that is to be expected. They can however bite into firm groomers and they lay trenches in medium to soft corduroy. My only beef is that they don’t seem to return much energy in transition. No matter how much I load them up, the pop out of the turn is lackluster. A small issue. It did take quite a bit of time for me to find the ideal way to pressure them on groomers to get the best performance. They do like to be driven hard on piste and the tips really only stay engaged when you stay over them. The first few days on the factory 1*/1* tune were frustrating as they wouldn’t bite at all, but once I went to a 1*/2* they started skiing much better. As a 25m radius ski they are not into carving a dad ski speeds. The only time that is an issue is when the hill is crowded, which has been far too often at Stevens this season.

Overall, I am happy with the choice of the Wildcat 108s. I think once I am skiing at full speed they will be a ton of fun. They are definitely the best looking skis on the hill, for what that may be worth to you.
 

Frank Ricard

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OP, did you get another day in the Sender Ti's to better compare them to the Wildcat's... and everything else you skied? Just curious, as a I have a somewhat similar dilemma, although you are a better skier in these types of conditions than I am.
 

PupManS

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I realize a decision has been made but for future searches, the Jskis Hotshot might be just what the doctor ordered here. I owned the predecessor (Jskis The Metal) and found it was a ski that had the damping and stability of a charger but was overall less “planky” than something like a Bonafide, (or in this width) Cochise or a Mantra (formerly owned Mantras).

The Metal would haul with the best of them, but was friendlier to me in bumps than the “Austrian Metal” skis. Also very playful and poppy. I think it has to do with the metal construction in the ski; it’s not edge to edge, more of a strip down the center. In any case, the ski was stable at speed and in chop, was a lot of fun.

I later sold it because I didn’t get enough float out of it (or any one oh something) and traded down to the narrower version (The Masterblaster) as half of a two ski travel quiver (the wider one being the Rustler 11). Despite the different heritage the skis are rather similar, making allowances for the 20mm waist difference.

Note if you look at Jskis and are a traditionalist like me, worth evaluating mounting 1-2cm behind the line, if you want them to ski a bit more like the German/Austrian skis that make up the rest of my quiver.
 

Tony Storaro

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The first few days on the factory 1*/1* tune were frustrating as they wouldn’t bite at all, but once I went to a 1*/2* they started skiing much better.

Thank you for that!
I own same ski only mounted at -1.
Will change the factory tune even before I have tried them at 1/1 to 1/2.
Still haven't skied mine but judging by your review, they will be ideal for what I am keeping them for-soft spring snow.
 

GregK

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My wider 118mm 21 Wildcats were pretty flat but a light stone grind made them perfect and then eliminated any remaining high spots on the edges with a file. I reset the edges in the camber section at 1/2 as well and smoothed the tip and tail above the contact point as required for Moment skis.
Hoping it snows as much as forecast and get a chance to ski them today. Great skis!
 
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robertc3

robertc3

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OP, did you get another day in the Sender Ti's to better compare them to the Wildcat's... and everything else you skied? Just curious, as a I have a somewhat similar dilemma, although you are a better skier in these types of conditions than I am.
I bought the Wildcats over the summer. There were so many great sounding skis and I knew I wouldn't be able to get on all of them. Eventually, I just took a leap and it worked out. Skiburger.com had my skis at 20% off, so it was time. I could have spent the entire winter trying to find the perfect ski and who knows what I would have found. Now that I have something it is just time to start thinking about what to add to the quiver next.
 
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robertc3

robertc3

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Thank you for that!
I own same ski only mounted at -1.
Will change the factory tune even before I have tried them at 1/1 to 1/2.
Still haven't skied mine but judging by your review, they will be ideal for what I am keeping them for-soft spring snow.
Getting the 1/2 really changed the ski. I haven't had any work done on the base, so I am just trusting it is in decent shape. With my back the way it is I am not skiing well enough to notice small problems. The 1/1 was a big problem, but I wanted to give it a shot since that is what the factory thinks makes their ski work the best.

Also, this weekend at my local hill there were spring-like conditions and they busted piles quite well. You should enjoy them when you get the right conditions.
 
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robertc3

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...smoothed the tip and tail above the contact point as required for Moment skis.
Greg, are you saying you detuned beyond the contact points or are you talking about blending the 1/2 and 1/1? I think you are saying detune, probably to resolve a bit of hookiness I have experience. For me it is mostly an issue when I am not properly pressuring the skis, so I haven't thought of a tuning solution, just a technique correction. I am hopeful that once I am back to health it won't be a concern.
 

GregK

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Greg, are you saying you detuned beyond the contact points or are you talking about blending the 1/2 and 1/1? I think you are saying detune, probably to resolve a bit of hookiness I have experience. For me it is mostly an issue when I am not properly pressuring the skis, so I haven't thought of a tuning solution, just a technique correction. I am hopeful that once I am back to health it won't be a concern.
Moment, ON3P and Praxis are all detuned from the contact point up, not the up to widest taper point like most skis. Very hooky unless you do. Have mine sharp underfoot but SMOOTH above the contact point.

Forgot to mention that all the above 3 are at 1/1 with the contact point up detuned at the factory so I’m just changing the underfoot camber area to 1/2 and go over the tips/tails to ensure they are nick/burr free.
 
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