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Henrik Kristofferson Leaving Rossignol ... Joining Van Deer?

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Philpug

Philpug

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@bud heishman as a retailer stocked them yes they were on the wall, ReFreshe skis in Quebec did well with them as did Sturdevant (sp) in Sun Valley. Again 3 shops hardly make a success story but yes, there were a couple of dozen sold at retail and thats what I know off the top of my head.
 

David Chaus

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I’m also guessing that @Primoz ’s criteria for relevance is whether athletes are using the skis on FIS WC racing, whereas most people here are looking for recreational skis and Master’s skis, uses for which Augment and Blossom have been superb.
 

ScotsSkier

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So you purchased the entire run? Are they mounted up with Howell’s?
:roflmao::roflmao: Unfortunately not... (both to the entire run and to the Howells!).....but I do know of at least another 12 pairs in Far West here, both through Bud and direct from Augment NA. Also similar #s in Sun Valley where Sturtevants sold out their entire allocation within 10 days. Like Phil says definitely not the #s you would hope for, or enough to build a sustainable business on and which unfortunately reflects the lack of product availability.

Sounds from your observations though there has been little to no presence in New England which reflects the lack of retailers and product on the hill there. At least in Tahoe with me coaching 5-6 days a week I have been able to get Masters racers on my skis to test the product which has driven uptake.

I am sure as a former Blossom importer yourself you are familiar with the issues. Until recently the Blossoms I got through you were the only ones seen out here in the Far West.... ogsmile
 

Primoz

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Have you read the reviews, not only by our "consumer grade" testers but @ScotsSkier who has a pretty well earned reputation in our racing community? All have been pretty stellar and IMHO the obsession is well deserved.
No I haven't read any reviews, and I don't plan to. I have my own reasons, why I think reviews are waste of time to read in today's world when there's review, and next to it manufacturers add. It has a little bit to do with objectivity but that's my thing, so I'm cool with anyone thinking different. But I have actually ski with some of their GS skis from WC stock first year they were out, and then some 2 years later, and especially with those 2 years later, I was anything but impressed. Main reason, because contrary to most of other manufacturers, they didn't change much ;)
I’m also guessing that @Primoz ’s criteria for relevance is whether athletes are using the skis on FIS WC racing, whereas most people here are looking for recreational skis and Master’s skis, uses for which Augment and Blossom have been superb.
Thing is, all the testing and all the development is done by WC athletes, not by recreational skiers or master racers. There's maybe 3 guys on world between recreational skiers and master racers, that can help develop skis and test them properly, while with resources, technique, and personnel involved in WC skiing, you have slightly more chances to properly test and develop product. So manufacturers without proper WC team, simply have no chance to test, develop and produce better then average product. It can go for a few months, if you snatch head designer from different company, who brings all the data along, but it goes only as long as those old data are still current. As soon as things change, old data doesn't help much, and lack of testing doesn't help either. That's main relevance if manufacturer has proper racing team or not. It's not about photo on podium, but about all the testing and development behind this, which on the end sooner or later end in recreational and masters skis.
 

James

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From all accounts skiers in the US tried their level best to toss money at Augment. Yet, I can't name a singe person who was actually able to purchase a pair at retail.
Oh come on, if we double all the known pairs, we’re maybe up to 6 dozen in the US. So at least it’s “dozens”
I’m guessing they will not return after the absence.

Wasn’t the whole flex thing of Augment race skis just…a croc? Like it was based on testing the made skis, not on changing the construction?
 

David Chaus

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Wasn’t the whole flex thing of Augment race skis just…a croc? Like it was based on testing the made skis, not on changing the construction?
I see what you did there.

And yes, I think it was based on the flex variations of the skis already made vs custom-ordering the ski flex you desired (or guessed you wanted). I have no insider information, just passing along what more knowledgeable people have passed on to me.
 

Brian Finch

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Per Swix / Graham Lonetto, GS skis can vary by 4m of radius based upon how they set up out of the mold- that doesn’t mean anyone intended to make a 26m ski.
 

Brian Finch

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"As I was saying, I can’t name a single person of many, many who tried to purchase a pair. Several have speculated that Augments were simply phantom stock"

I purchased 3 pairs of Augments--very nice skis, quite real.....
How did you obtain these skis? Did you walk into a store & buy or did you have a ‘deal’?

Lets seem the merchant receipt if it’s the former. :)
 

Tricia

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How did you obtain these skis? Did you walk into a store & buy or did you have a ‘deal’?

Lets seem the merchant receipt if it’s the former. :)


While at Sun Valley, we saw a handful of Augments on the hill that were purchased at Sturdevants.
I'm not sure why you're pushing this, almost to the point of calling members liars.
 

Brian Finch

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^
I’m simply engaging at ski talk at a higher level. Either this is a ‘soft launch’ propaganda scheme (that we’ve seen so so many times prior in the industry) or their is a legit product that average folks can actually purchase.

We have multiple creditable members questioning this bizarre VD/Augment/Croc PR, I think it’s in everyone’s best interest if we get to the bottom of this.

I consult along the entire EC, I’ve seen exactly one pair of Augments in a storage locker at Burke- sure seems to be a CIA level scam to me.

* We have a town cross the border in NY that has taken to promoting Bigfoot sightings as a tourist attraction, doesn’t mean he’s real.
;)
 

Tricia

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^
I’m simply engaging at ski talk at a higher level. Either this is a ‘soft launch’ propaganda scheme (that we’ve seen so so many times prior in the industry) or their is a legit product that average folks can actually purchase.

We have multiple creditable members questioning this bizarre VD/Augment/Croc PR, I think it’s in everyone’s best interest if we get to the bottom of this.

;)
And you have multiple creditable members who have posted their experience and ownership of Augments.
Honestly asking someone to post a copy of a receipt is not "ski talk at a higher level". Its actually quite offensive.
I doubt you'd like it if somoene asked you to do the same.
 

Ivan

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And you have multiple creditable members who have posted their experience and ownership of Augments.
Honestly asking someone to post a copy of a receipt is not "ski talk at a higher level". Its actually quite offensive.
I doubt you'd like it if somoene asked you to do the same.
I am with @Tricia on this one. It's perfectly fine to question whether Van Deer/Augment is capable of making proper World Cup level skis. It is fine to think that the brand has largely failed to achieve success in the US, because the sales have remained low or availability of their products has been limited. However, I do not think it is acceptable to ask someone who has been on this forum for many years to post a proof of purchase or something like this.
 

Brian Finch

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And you have multiple creditable members who have posted their experience and ownership of Augments.
Honestly asking someone to post a copy of a receipt is not "ski talk at a higher level". Its actually quite offensive.
I doubt you'd like it if somoene asked you to do the same.

I’ve stopped accepting pro/bro deals bc their are always strings. I’m happy to post up my receipt from Northern Ski Works for my Kendos! I hope others value my transparency- adds to legitimacy!
 

James

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Well if you want one you can get it from Europe.
Augment is certainly guilty of misrepresenting their product for at least a year with the flex nonsense. Implying they make your flex. In reality it’s just like any other race ski that’s flex marked.

The fact that they bailed in NA is interesting at least. Certainly not confidence building.

0174D8F3-FDCA-4F94-9D6D-B9A57361D148.jpeg
 
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Philpug

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The fact that they bailed in NA is interesting at least. Certainly not confidence building.
No it's not but honestly it was the right thing to do. Simply, they had a distributor that dropped the ball (more than a few times) that didn't have enough funding in a pandemic and didn't come through. Instead of trying to get back into the NA market ill prepared and instead of quickly trying to get another distributor without time to vett this time, and not being sure they can get enough material they decided to pull back, circle the wagons and enter the market correctly next time, because you get usually one chance to make a first impression, you only get a few chances to make a second.

Maybe they come back here as Augment, maybe the let Van Deer come into the market? All TBD.
 

James

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If they come back as Van Deer they’ll make Bode look good.
They could’ve gone DTC for the year.
 
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Philpug

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They could’ve gone DTC for the year.
I am sure that was discussed. Like I said, they are not doing to do it half way until they decide what will be best for the long term. To be in dealers one year, DTC the next then back to dealers again? All when they are unsure of getting enough supplies/materials.
 

dj61

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no facts, just a bit throwing around numbers. Sure Hirscher was working on this for long time. But numbers currently spinning are way way out of Hirschers reach, even if he would invest every single cent he would ever earned in his life into this project
How could you possibly know? This is nothing more than gossip and a smear to Marcel's reputation and business instincts. 100% factless.
 

Primoz

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@dj61 I don't know what did I write to "smear to Marcel's reputation and business instincts". But I do have at least some approximate numbers how much proper racing service itself costs (ski production, design costs, marketing costs, ski federation pools contracts etc. are not included in this at all), and the way they were grabbing every available serviceman, plus specific racer, which is most likely not doing it for free, it's not really hard to calculate who can afford this and who can't. Even if it's 100% factless in your mind, and even if I have no real numbers from this specific case, I'm pretty sure numbers are not all that much different then numbers in rest of industry. With at least very approximate range of what Hirscher earned, it's pretty much safe to say, it's not his money behind this. If you consider this as "smearing Hirscher's reputation" then I can't help it, but it certainly wasn't meant to smear anyone's reputation.
 

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