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High End Recreational/Coach Boot Adjustments

Yo Momma

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I posted this on another thread and it led me to post it here as I try to understand the future of ski boot design parameters.

During my discussions over the years w/ my Master Boot Fitter, to get my boots "Flat" w/ my uniquely imperfect body mechanics and terrible alignment, I needed a boot w/

a) Instep buckle adjustment
b) boot cuff alignment adj
c) heel and toe Cant adjustment


These were all available on my Salomon Impact Pro's. Now I ski the Impact CS 120 version of that boot w/ all those same adj available. I'm attempting to understand how the new heated shells accomplish all this in light of the fact that it took an entire season of runs to micro adjust all the parameters to achieve maximum performance. For me, boot fitting is a living and breathing process that involves both my fitter and I educating each other about performance and both making micro adjustments and relaying the results back and forth to achieve a consistent goal, together. The process involved experimentation w/ what worked, as well as what did not. As my skiing progresses during the season, the musculature of my calves, feet and lower legs change. This requires micro adjustments during the season to maintain optimal performance.

It seems the trend of newer recreational heated shell boots is to do away w/ those micro-adjustments in favor of having to re-heat your shell to achieve optimal integration. How many times can you reheat modern shells to make adjustments? If a particular brand fits your feet perfectly and they eliminate those adjustments it can be truly frustrating for the consumer. If you have perfect anatomy then your task is easy, switch brands. For those w/ less than perfect anatomy, this process is frustrating.

Please chime in on this w/ more solid info as mine is only one guy's evidence based experience. Please understand that this is in reference to "Recreational" skiing and/or Coaching level boots that require that you be in boots all day long w/ comfort as a priority over top level "Race Stock" (purely unintentional shameless plug on that one!) performance which requires boots that are specialized and tuned way beyond mere mortal tolerances. :beercheer:
 
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KingGrump

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Here are couple thread on the Fischer Vacuum boots form a while back. Good background info.



I'll throw in my two cents a little later when I get a chance.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Yo Momma

Yo Momma

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I think that one of the understated areas of expertise a Master Boot Fitter is knowing shell shapes so well that they can look at your foot, as my boot fitter did, and immediately be able to discern which manufacturer's shell will best fit your particular feet. When he looked at my foot in 2008, w/o hesitation he stated that the boot for my foot was on the design table. During my assessment he mentioned that
he always fit's "the Shell" first. Then he'll move on from there. Fitting the liner, in my case, was secondary.

With Wifey, he did the same. We went to him one fall and he first figured out which shell best fit her foot. Then we proceeded to do a liner fit and it was easy peasy as her anatomy is less problematic than mine. W/ her Hotronics on, she doesn't even think about her boots anymore... and says next boots, no brainer..... we're going back to him. "Happy Wife...." you know the rest! Nah... Happy Wife, long ski days!

One of the areas of primary concern is that I broke my leg as a kid and my foot does not properly align w/ my tibia (shin). Thus the need for cuff angle adjustment, especially when I level up during the season and the musculature becomes more pronounced. There isn't enough liner adjustment to compensate. We had to default to the shell adjustment and as the liner and my leg change during the season, I can micro adjust.

I will say that it is initially expensive from a short term perspective. I pay my boot fitter more than double the price of the boots for his expertise and time..... if he's reading this... I still won't let you pinch my Pow lines!!!! LMAO but I love ya Man and beers are on me!!!!

Anyway, long term NO BOOT ISSUES at all including optional boot removal during lunch, until I went "off script" and tried an Intuition Liner. He told me to bail on that project and I proceeded anyway.... Yup..... as he predicted... Fail! Much too thick for the shell he had fit....
We were hiking in opposite directions on one of the local trails one summer and he told me, " Mark forget about the new liner! Just use the ones we set up bec we didn't leave any room in there for anything else!"

Like I said in another thread, no sub for a Master Level Boot Fitter. Value them as much or more than your Retirement Specialist..... my boot fitter is my "only fee only", fiduciary ski boot advisor! :beercheer:
 
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onenerdykid

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he always fit's "the Shell" first. Then he'll move on from there. Fitting the liner, in my case, was secondary.
Properly fitting boots most often arise from this course of action.

In regards to heat moldable shells vs. traditional stretching and grinding, both are valid but it just depends on the skier and his/her expectations of comfort & performance.

Here's when heat molding a shell can make a lot of sense: a skier is only skiing a few times a year (and thus does not have the time or patience to revisit the boot-fitter). Or if the skier really prioritizes comfort over performance. Or if the skier has lots of areas that need adjustment and spot stretching all of them is either too much work or can lead to some stretches shrinking during all of the re-heating that needs to happen.

Here's when traditional stretching & grinding make a lot of sense: the skier prioritizes performance over cushy-comfort and does not want to feel any excess movement while skiing. Or the skier has the time & patience to revisit the boot-fitter for multiple refits. Or all that is needed is a simple stretch here & a grind there.

No point in heat molding a shell if all that is needed is a 1st met stretch. And rarely does it make sense having a skier suffer through 20 hours of boot work if they only ski 10 hours a year. It's all dependent on the skier and their priorities.
 
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Yo Momma

Yo Momma

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Properly fitting boots most often arise from this course of action.

In regards to heat moldable shells vs. traditional stretching and grinding, both are valid but it just depends on the skier and his/her expectations of comfort & performance.

Here's when heat molding a shell can make a lot of sense: a skier is only skiing a few times a year (and thus does not have the time or patience to revisit the boot-fitter). Or if the skier really prioritizes comfort over performance. Or if the skier has lots of areas that need adjustment and spot stretching all of them is either too much work or can lead to some stretches shrinking during all of the re-heating that needs to happen.

Here's when traditional stretching & grinding make a lot of sense: the skier prioritizes performance over cushy-comfort and does not want to feel any excess movement while skiing. Or the skier has the time & patience to revisit the boot-fitter for multiple refits. Or all that is needed is a simple stretch here & a grind there.

No point in heat molding a shell if all that is needed is a 1st met stretch. And rarely does it make sense having a skier suffer through 20 hours of boot work if they only ski 10 hours a year. It's all dependent on the skier and their priorities.
That makes perfect sense and nicely summarizes the needs of different skiers... Tailor the project to the consumer's needs. I've had many bootfitters that had one shot based on my availability, and ended up placing me into a large comfortable boot w/ decent and acceptable performance parameters. They satisfied my need, at the time. Once I moved into ski country and was able to spend some dedicated time on snow, my needs and changed. My hope is to pass on what I have learned so that others can reap the benefits of a "relationship" w/ your boot fitter. If you go back to the same ski area every year, set it up. It's invaluable and will pay high long term dividends! :beercheer:
 

crosscountry

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Well, maybe more costly to have heat molded shells. But there's nothing to prevent a boot fitter to do the traditional punching and stretching on those shells. It may even reduce their work load as the shells are half way towards the ideal fit?

As for the on mountain adjustments, I agree it should still be there. My latest boot were heat moldable and also the on-the-spot adjustment I needed. Some boots don't have those. But perhaps those modals were targeting the casual skiers?
 

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