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Hips - Knees - Ankles

Gina D

Getting off the lift
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Played with this today and liked it a lot. Definitely different from the "start with the feet" mantra that I hear so much, not that a focus on the feet isn't always key, but the movements as he describes them start with the core/hips. Thoughts?

 

geepers

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Played with this today and liked it a lot. Definitely different from the "start with the feet" mantra that I hear so much, not that a focus on the feet isn't always key, but the movements as he describes them start with the core/hips. Thoughts?


Skied a season and a half at Big White when Josh was ski school director there. He was a well known character at the resort. He was trainer for a 2 day workshop when I was doing my CSIA L2. Good skier and instructor. Had a way of simplifying things to suit our abilities and understanding. Eight students in that workshop and everyone got individual attention (feedback/focuses/adjustments) throughout, the pace moved along nicely and it was a fun, informative 2 days. Role model of a how to conduct a ski lesson. He was in the CSIA Demo team 2019.

It's an interesting ski tip. MHO there's always some salient point in Josh's vid tips. It's not the material he covered in his L2 workshop - which definitely started at snow level - but if it adds something to our skiing why not see where it takes us. Would probably ask: how do the hips get going to cross the skis (which is discussed elsewhere) and what happens if the feet tip before the knees.
 

Fuller

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I'm also a big Josh Foster fan, I've watched every video he's ever made I'm sure. However I think this a great tip for people who already ski competently from the feet up - not so much for a terminal intermediate relying on upper body movement to power the turn. But if you insist on focusing on hip movement remember you still need speed and edge angles to go with that hip position.

For me, taking up ball room dancing this summer would have a more profound effect on my hips and skiing.
 

Zirbl

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Played with this today and liked it a lot. Definitely different from the "start with the feet" mantra that I hear so much, not that a focus on the feet isn't always key, but the movements as he describes them start with the core/hips. Thoughts?
Probably controversial in the US but have received similar coaching from someone with serious WC credentials. Not that a good record makes them right, but it doesn't put you in bad company either.
 
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Gina D

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I can still focus on my feet while moving my hips, so it's still a foot focus. I think the ankles being last in the sequence is more about closing them and moving them forward then it is about tipping the feet. The tipping seems to come with the hip movement to me.
 

James

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Probably controversial in the US but have received similar coaching from someone with serious WC credentials. Not that a good record makes them right, but it doesn't put you in bad company either.
Lots of racers seem to free ski with tons of initial inclination. They are way into the turn, then hook up. It’s a lot of trust and experience when it gets firm with pitch.
 

Mike B

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Nice easy mantras can help, to a point. Im a foot up skier to a fault. Im always searching for that perfect feel, perfect set-up. But, I have days when I find balance the best by not over-using my foot. Then I think back on one of the five PSIA fundamentals about edge angle being created by inclination and angulation and say "Hmm, they may be on to something." However, does moving your hips laterally equate to inclination or angulation? Simple is good to a point, but at times becomes another myth or gets taken out of context for the sake of simplicity.
 

Scruffy

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The hips are powerful and a very important component of skiing well. It's almost impossible to move the hips without moving the ankles and visa versa, they are connected via the lower Kinetic chain. Also note Josh's statement in the above video that the movement sequence hip-knees-ankle is "all at the same time-somewhat simultaneous", so he's moving his ankles as soon as he moves his hips via the kinetic chain, and then as a mental focus he's also telling you to move the whole chain simultaneously. There's a lot of range of motion in the hips and a lot of fine tuning that one can access in skiing at a high level. Putting a focus on the hips is not a bad learning modality. Feet/ankles first is just the mirror focus-do both.
 

François Pugh

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Future hip position is a direct result of current motion and net forces. The forces we have control over are at the skis, so foot up. However, thinking about where your hips need to be to apply those forces certainly helps. Sometime eliminating the details of how you get your hips there (from the thought process) helps.
 

Jilly

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I think this is more about hip "placement" than anything else. I was looking through the photo thread when I spotted a skier, basically standing upright. No hip at all. So in my opinion, Josh is emphasizing the hip motion. Watch the next time your out skiing. How many skier have their hips in motion? Not many I'll suspect are even close to getting their hip to the snow.
 

dan ross

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The hips are powerful and a very important component of skiing well. It's almost impossible to move the hips without moving the ankles and visa versa, they are connected via the lower Kinetic chain. Also note Josh's statement in the above video that the movement sequence hip-knees-ankle is "all at the same time-somewhat simultaneous", so he's moving his ankles as soon as he moves his hips via the kinetic chain,…

That’s it right there:thumb:. The kinetic chain cannot be fooled, it’s all part of the anatomical system. You can emphasize a joint or motion but not without activating the other parts of the chain. I’d suggest that anyone really interested in what your body is doing in a closed ( feet on the snow) chain movement download Bio Digital which is a 3D interactive anatomical visualization app to see what is actually going on with your muscles and ligaments. My PT’s use a more sophisticated app which has been illuminating in my understanding of what’s going on and what to concentrate on in my recovery .
 

locknload

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Great video. But pitchers don't get "power" from their shoulder....they get it from their lower half, glutes and core. No matter...I got his point. The larger point is that leverage and torque in all sports are generated from the ground up.
 

JESinstr

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The hips are powerful and a very important component of skiing well. It's almost impossible to move the hips without moving the ankles and visa versa, they are connected via the lower Kinetic chain. Also note Josh's statement in the above video that the movement sequence hip-knees-ankle is "all at the same time-somewhat simultaneous", so he's moving his ankles as soon as he moves his hips via the kinetic chain, and then as a mental focus he's also telling you to move the whole chain simultaneously. There's a lot of range of motion in the hips and a lot of fine tuning that one can access in skiing at a high level. Putting a focus on the hips is not a bad learning modality. Feet/ankles first is just the mirror focus-do both.
Well said.

When I talk the lower Kinetic chain (Flex complex), I say that the ankles are most important, and the hips are most critical. Clearly, it is easier to "Feel" the mass of the pelvic girdle moving inside off the hip joints than the ankles. But remember, ankle and its Dorsiflexion function is a crucial component in fore and aft management, and it all begins by being in balance.

When doing medium and higher radius turns, my initial transitional focus is on retraction and getting the skis under, out and away to create initial inclination. Lateral pelvic movement as part of the progressive angulation follows as the turn develops IMO.
 
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Gina D

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I wish I could "like" a "like." :) @LiquidFeet

Screen Shot 2023-03-02 at 1.08.10 PM.jpg
 
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Rod9301

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Well said.

When I talk the lower Kinetic chain (Flex complex), I say that the ankles are most important, and the hips are most critical. Clearly, it is easier to "Feel" the mass of the pelvic girdle moving inside off the hip joints than the ankles. But remember, ankle and its Dorsiflexion function is a crucial component in fore and aft management, and it all begins by being in balance.

When doing medium and higher radius turns, my initial transitional focus is on retraction and getting the skis under, out and away to create initial inclination. Lateral pelvic movement as part of the progressive angulation follows as the turn develops IMO.
You don't get the skis under and away. The skis stay in the snow, it's your body that's moving in relation to the skis.
 

LiquidFeet

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You don't get the skis under and away. The skis stay in the snow, it's your body that's moving in relation to the skis.
This does not match my experience. It's a frame of reference thing.
I've realized that thinking of the feet as stable while the CoM moves is more common than its opposite.

I'm not sure either one is more "accurate" than the other. But maybe each conceptualization has a different influence on how one moves to switch sides.
 

JESinstr

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You don't get the skis under and away. The skis stay in the snow, it's your body that's moving in relation to the skis.
In this excellent video, Shiffrin is making 2 kinds of transitions.

In the first transition (0:14 to 0:24 ) she is using what I call an ILE (inside leg extension). with ILE, there in not that much of a float but the feet still move under, out and away.
In the second transition (0:33 to 0:43) she develops a monster float using a retraction transition and you can see how far the feet travel out and away. It is also important to note that this type of transition induces initiation via inclination followed by angulation and is what is being promoted by the likes of Gillie, JF, Lorenz et al in our free skiing.

 

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