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Hips - Knees - Ankles

Sherman89

Booting up
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Interesting, we have 3 different viewers looking at the same picture but with 3 different versions of what they see.
 

James

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Guy on left is a very high level skier. Right, no.
I go with marko’s, except the typo- Green pants is back, taking a position. Left guy is skiing with power. Well, for him he’s probably just tooling around.
They entered the turn in very different ways.
 

KingGrump

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Interesting, we have 3 different viewers looking at the same picture but with 3 different versions of what they see.

Not really 3 different version. Marko specified the causes. The others are stating the symptoms and fixes.

Like James said, one is rolling through the turn and the other is just posing the turn. This should be lots more evident when viewed in a video or real life.
 

LiquidFeet

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Not really 3 different version. Marko specified the causes. The others are stating the symptoms and fixes.

Like James said, one is rolling through the turn and the other is just posing the turn. This should be lots more evident when viewed in a video or real life.
^^This. Technical talk can be off-putting at first because of the seeming conflict among those making the posts.

Sometimes there is a big food fight over things people believe in strongly, but such arguments don't happen that often here. The moderators shut them down before things get that bad. But people can argue over smallish differences and keep that going for pages.

For some of us that can be fun.
 

markojp

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Jjmd

Putting on skis
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Skier on the left has more dynamic inside arm movement, down and forward, and outside arm higher, thus resulting in more counter giving him a more slicing forward type of motion. It also gives him more vertical boot separation.
 

Bill R

aka NoCapes
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They look at different things: the one on the left is looking at the next turn, the one on the right is looking down the fault line.
We my skiing gets ragged I'm going to remind myself not to look down the "fault line" :)
 

abcd

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Angulation is happening at the lumbar, not top of femur..
Do you mind explaining this one a bit more? I think this might be the answer to the question that I tried to ask but couldn't formulate
 

geepers

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Do you mind explaining this one a bit more? I think this might be the answer to the question that I tried to ask but couldn't formulate

Angulation at the femurs means more of the angles are happening as the pelvis (and whole upper body) rotates laterally at the ball/socket joint at the femoral head. Shoulders and hips tilt approximately the same amount - like orange guy.

Angulation at the lumbar spine means the angles are happening more by bending of the lumbar region of the spine - the 5 vertebrae (L1->L5) that are just above the pelvis. Shoulders and hips tilt different amounts with the lumbar spine being bent laterally. That means side loading on the spine which it isn't so well equipped to handle - not such a good idea.
1678448353654.png




The original JAM vid (featuring the green guy at 2:27) - unfortunately no vid of green, just a static image. Can turn on english captions for wording.


TL;DW....
1678448746116.png

1678447382008.png
 

RoninSkier

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View attachment 194708

BOS "cross-under" COM vs. COM "crossover" BOS?
The simple pendulum = what we should do from the feet up to the hip sockets
Rolling in/bracing the feet/ankles, knee drive & hip angulation, in that order in micro seconds.
Arcing or brushing/steering, reaching out and balanced on our feet against the snow.
Start the swing out (with our feet & body inclination).....Reach max swing (braced against a lengthen outside leg, driving through our arch/heel) max extension, at the apex......Start to swing in (let the bent ski rebound, give in, increasing flexion, finish our turn into transition)

The metronome = what we should do from the hip sockets up
Initial, micro sec turn initiation by inclination followed by progressive angulation with upper body discipline.
The hips, the core really, acting as a foundation/anchor for our body's actions
Tick (inclinate).....Tock (angulate)..... Tick (de-angulate, de-inclinate, transition into neutral, ready to initiate/flip the next turn)

IMHO
 
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RoninSkier

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This is how all teaching/coaching session should be.

A master instructor with keen observational & analysis skills giving real time input, respectful but matter of fact, not over baked as Deb puts it. She is a model for all of us - how to teach.

A student who is ready, self-aware with no ego and receptive to trying, pushing beyond where he is at. Yeah Deb is an olypian and Scott has deep respect for her but the relationship is real. Scott is also a model for all of us - how to learn.... he still occasionally skis crunched, squatty as Deb puts it.... but he is aware.

This is how skiing should be taught, learned. One on one, interactive, respectful with no ego no hold back. Not the sugar coated 'great experience' crap but helping to bring awareness and revelation and most of all performance. Just a joy to watch.

Of course this is ideal can be costly and not practical in today's cookie cutter industry. Why I became a Ronin long time ago.
 
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RoninSkier

Getting off the lift
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Angulation at the femurs means more of the angles are happening as the pelvis (and whole upper body) rotates laterally at the ball/socket joint at the femoral head. Shoulders and hips tilt approximately the same amount - like orange guy.

Angulation at the lumbar spine means the angles are happening more by bending of the lumbar region of the spine - the 5 vertebrae (L1->L5) that are just above the pelvis. Shoulders and hips tilt different amounts with the lumbar spine being bent laterally. That means side loading on the spine which it isn't so well equipped to handle - not such a good idea.
View attachment 196056



The original JAM vid (featuring the green guy at 2:27) - unfortunately no vid of green, just a static image. Can turn on english captions for wording.


TL;DW....
View attachment 196057
View attachment 196054
The Italians have always been such beautiful skiers. This master instructor Valerio knows wtf he is talking about.

Thank you for posting the English captioned VDOs.
 

BTWilliams

BTWilliams
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California
Mikaela talks about feet and ankles coming first, but the reality is the motions are simultaneous. It is a complex compound movement.



This movement may not be apparent in elite skiers when they are loaded up, because their edge angles are so high. The overall high inclination hides it, but it is there. It also can provide that last little bit of vertical separation once you have stacked over the outside leg, and really shortened the inside leg. Once you get to that point, an extra 1/2" to 1" of vertical separation from hiking the inside hip is huge. Hip hiking seems to work like an amplifier for your foot and ankle tipping movements. They all happen at the same time. But if you concentrate on feeling your feet and ankles...then add some hip hike to the motion, it is shocking how much more easily everything happens. This is important. There is a reason Brandon Dyksterhouse (former USST coach) took the time to make a video showing this. There is a reason Mikaela practices exaggerating this movement.

I see a LOT of this in the Corso di sci - Check Point 04/2014 - Basta Bacino video (the skier in orange/white).



Instructions to the effect of "do this first" are instruction tricks to get our mind to focus more on something we are not doing enough of. It often does not really mean do that thing "first"

Also, any discussion about being "inside" or not should always be relative to and axis perpendicular to the top sheets of the skis.

 
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no edge

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It appears that green skier doesn't realize that the camera is rolling. He lacks adequate commitment to the outside ski. Red skier has solid weight on the outside ski and although it may seem subtle it makes a huge difference. Green skier, although I am sure he could be exceptional, is a slacker. He is not getting the job done. Red skier has the outside leg straighter and his hip is able to open. A solid platform allows skier to ski with confidences and much greater control.

I don't like to criticize "A-framing" out of respect for the past and the way I used to ski (and sometimes still do), but improved skiing helps address that problem.
 
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