Hormone Replacement Therapy for Men?

[Tim Hodgson]

One of the great things about conversing with a group of people who share an avocation such as the love of sport, like skiing, is that we all come from many different vocations. True diversity in knowledge and experience. For example, I learn things from you guys and gals which I otherwise likely never would have learned.

So, as I get older and as my body naturally wears down, I am wondering what I can to do promote its health and longevity? This has lead me to drop from 206 lbs. to 191.5 over the last three weeks by ruling out all processed foods and limiting my intake to meat and vegetables. Now that I am on my way to a healthy weight, I want to build strength.

I have heard that both testosterone (which I understand is the healing hormone) and progesterone are both used but don't know anymore than what is found in this article below:

Men's Health

Find information on men's health issues, fitness, and lifestyle at the Men's Health Center.

www.webmd.com

So, if you don't mind me asking, do any of you have knowledge or experience with the risks and benefits of hormone replacement therapy for men?

 

[Rod9301]

Instead of asking this on a internet forum, you should measure your testosterone and free testosterone to see if you have enough.

If you lift weights, do you get stronger?
If yes, you have enough testosterone, and it will improve anyway by lifting.

 

[geepers]

This has lead me to drop from 206 lbs. to 191.5 over the last three weeks by ruling out all processed foods

 

[Corgski]

A topic one will encounter quite frequently if you hang out on the strength training areas of the internet. Sometimes see suggestions that all older guys should do this, but it is probably best to follow the general medical advice of only pursuing treatment if you actually have symptoms. I have teenage sons I am competing with so it is easy to be tempted but I would not pursue it without more justification.

IF you need it, the effects low Testosterone are serious and you should pursue treatment, just as high levels can cause heart issues, so can low levels. Just be aware that the medical community goes through phases on their tolerance to this and right now seem to be discouraging it (there are claims that research has shown it may not help older men, this is not true). Possible you would need to hunt around for a doctor who would treat you properly.

 

[Dakine]

Unless you have a medically identifiable medical condition, you mess with your endocrine system at your own risk.
That said, I took 7 keto DHEA all through my weightlifting years and got so I could double rep bench 265 while weighing 165.
I quit when I turned 70 to reduce the chances of cancer.
You have to accept the aging process eventually and find a whole new fitness approach suitable for geezers.
That means low weights, lots of reps and no impact.
I'm deeply into calisthenics, swimming and walking with moderate biking to keep on keeping on.
The biggest mistake you can make is to deny what comes along with aging and try to write checks your body can't cash.
Healing takes forever when you over 3/4 century.
I'm going for 100 and it turns out my mom's advice was the best.
"Moderation in all things."
....most of the time.
Most of the Time

 

[Corgski]

Now that I am on my way to a healthy weight, I want to build strength.

Not that hard to do if you do the right stuff and are not struggling with accumulated injuries (me). Anyway I'll assume you have not done any serious strength training before, if you have (like @Dakine above) you can ignore what I am about to say.

Research shows first 3 months of training you can achieve gains of probably 20-35%. This rate of gain declines as one progresses but for someone who has not strength trained before, maybe two years (less?) to double strength without overdoing it. If you are not able to get anywhere close to this, chances are you are doing it wrong. Note that this is not age dependent, while absolute gains are affected by age, relative gains are not (can provide references when I get time).

Also, when it comes to strength, traditional barbell work is pretty much the only game in town as you get older, partly for safety reasons. It is possible to start off with as little as a 10lb technique bar (you would start with the standard 20kg bar) and work your way up to pretty much anything in half pound increments (fractional plates are essential). It is the ability to micromanage the increments that help support sustained progress without injury. A lot of exercise routines fail as they are not able to maintain a sustained progression with small increments indefinitely. Also dumbbells work fine for upper body but the problem is whatever your upper body can handle, your lower body needs about twice that to be trained effectively. So either barbell or start with one legged stuff which has questionable safety if you are not already well trained. Certainly should not attempt a one legged squat if you cannot squat maybe 250lb with a barbell.

Once you know the basics of safety, really not that expensive to get a reasonable setup for ones home, cheaper than most of the other stuff on the market.

Writing the above makes me sound way stronger than what I am, currently mainly been doing barbell work to get through old injuries.

 

[Spam16v]

Get your bloodwork checked, get a TRT/HRT Dr and see where you’re at. Sub 200 @40, living in the gym since my 20’s meal prep every week, marathons and century rides in the past, 4 plates for working weight on squats/Deads and my labs looked awful. High insulin, ratios off, headed for type 2 & cholesterol meds bad. 3 months in and it looks like I’m in my 20’s. 1/2cc weekly cruise and supplemental OTC vitamin regiment to control estrogen with labs ever quarter. My Dr is local, but I kept such good logs of food, diet, activity, etc I do everything remote. Lab work transmitted, scripts, zoom for consults. Any questions PM me, I won’t lie, I’ll tell you I don’t know if I don’t.

there’s so much trash in our food that is nearly impossible to avoid, it’s killing us and our Test levels. 1% drop annually on top of low vitamin D levels. The steroid stigma started for everyone in middle school, how every gym will have a pusher just like everyone is giving free joints out at parties. Have yet to experience either. I won’t go too deep into the conspiracies but they want the herd weak and subjugated, starts with food additives and a healthy dose of soy. Eat your impossible burger, meat is murder etc.

If you think all that is BS, if your grandfather died around the 2000’s, he probably had test levels in the 1000+ when he was in his mid 60’s. I have friends in the 20’s with lower levels than mine. They’re trying to kill us.

After that, get screened for sleep apnea, or look up the “I love to take naps” thread and continue your decline.

 

[Rod9301]

Unless you have a medically identifiable medical condition, you mess with your endocrine system at your own risk.
That said, I took 7 keto DHEA all through my weightlifting years and got so I could double rep bench 265 while weighing 165.
I quit when I turned 70 to reduce the chances of cancer.
You have to accept the aging process eventually and find a whole new fitness approach suitable for geezers.
That means low weights, lots of reps and no impact.
I'm deeply into calisthenics, swimming and walking with moderate biking to keep on keeping on.
The biggest mistake you can make is to deny what comes along with aging and try to write checks your body can't cash.
Healing takes forever when you over 3/4 century.
I'm going for 100 and it turns out my mom's advice was the best.
"Moderation in all things."
....most of the time.
Most of the Time

Not sure why you're advocating low weights and lots of reps. This is a recipe for tendon and ligament damage they repetitive use.

 

[Dakine]

Not sure why you're advocating low weights and lots of reps. This is a recipe for tendon and ligament damage they repetitive use.

Because it is stupid for old folks to try and lift real weight.
Really bad things happen.
Old school calisthenics have a lot to offer for elders in these Covid times.
To me, excessive reps is endurance stuff like biking or running long distances.
Warren Miller thought it was best to always avoid any exercise but skiing.
Your joints will wear out but why not do it on skis?

 

[dan ross]

Warren Miller thought it was best to always avoid any exercise but skiing.
Your joints will wear out but why not do it on skis?

I can attest to joints wearing out - two of mine have one replaced the other in the works. That said, I had a blast putting on that mileage and am grateful I live in a time when they can be repaired. Strength without flexibility or mobility is of little use.

 

[pete]

I recall the first few times I flew on a plane and seeing the Dr Life's ads in the mags in the seat pockets.

Today I hear several men's medical clinics advertising on the radio for Testosterone treatment. I haven't checked into the validity but find it more interesting that they note that treatments may be covered by insurance.

While I can believe there is truth in many claims, I equally get turned off when a sale is aimed at being "covered by your insurance"

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Thank you all for your input please keep it up. I am doing my research now. Will report back when I have questions or an idea to share. I have been taking DHEA 100mg and Bulgarian Tribulus for five years, and it has been at least three years since I had my blood work done. This morning was down to 190.5 lbs. My goal was 190, but since there are still love handle remnants, it may be 185. So, dropped from 206 to 190.5 lbs in 4 weeks by eating only beef, chicken or fish and vegetables. I tripled my DHEA and Tribulus and was suggested that I take Progesterone at night which I will do. I definitely feel the difference between 100mg per day and 300mg per day. But I don't want to fly blind. I want blood work. I noticed that there are mail in labs out there. Yesterday, I spoke with a Physician's Assistant and will have my H&P and Blood Work done for a baseline. But any input you guys have would be appreciated.

I started whitewater kayaking at 18. I am 67 now. Both my upper bicep tendons are gone from paddling. One of the three muscles in my right shoulder is gone and retracted. When I told the third Ortho that I didn't expect surgery to give me a new shoulder but just wanted it to be as good as my left shoulder, he said, and this is a quote" "Your left shoulder is all fucked up too!" He didn't recommend surgery so I haven't done it. My ACL was replaced from a ligament from my shin in 1995 from skiing off a rock onto a too flat landing the third time that day. My knees are bone on bone.

I have always maintained or built muscle by sport not by gym. I have the name of a PT at Kaiser-Permanente to consult about safe exercises so I don't rupture anymore tendons.

Jet skiing today, I was happy I could drop low (squat) into a carved turn to avoid falling inside the turn. There was one motor yacht which had great big and deep but not too sharp waves for carving down dropping in and turning up or turn on top and dropping back down.

Everything seems much easier with less weight.

I don't think I will ever eat processed food again.

Dakine is that you doing those pull ups?

Spam16v I am sure that I am not the only person who agrees with allot of what you say but is afraid to say so publicly...

 

[oldschoolskier]

Personally, self proscribing this type of treat is risky, do this medically supervised, otherwise……Any advise even that well meaning is a risk. Medically sound (advice/guidance) is only real honest answer.

 

[SpikeDog]

It's fairly commonplace to be able to get testosterone checked by local labs. Any health fair usually has a complete male panel test available. You need to see where you're at first. My local labs will do testosterone alone for $25, a complete male panel for $200.

 

[eok]

Endocrine issues can sneak up on you. So easy to blame "aging" on issues you may not be aware of. Case in point: me. I had been dealing with escalating weight, BP issues, low heart rate, persistent heart rhythm issues (benign PVCs) and periods of crushing fatigue the last several months. Ramping up exercise and improving diet didn't help a bit and just seemed to amplify some of the symptoms. None of my typical anti-aging and fitness regime had any effect. Very frustrating and eventually alarming.

Saw the doc. Initial blood work was OK. We talked about options and decided to do a thyroid blood test. Bingo! Borderline numbers and high antibodies (Hasimoto's indicator, ie: hypothyroid). I see the endocrinologist next week.

Looking back over recent years I probably started developing some indications of hypothyroid around 2018. For some, it can go undected for many years. I guess it's easy to miss or mistake for something else if you don't specifically get a full thyroid blood workup.

So glad I got this checked out. If I hadn't I likely would still be trying (in vain) to overcome the symptoms with exercise, diet and supplements.

 

[Dakine]

Dakine is that you doing those pull ups?

Showing off a bit, the best way to get hurt.
Not many 76 year olds can do 10 legitimate wide grip pullups.
Part of the strength came from da gym but a lot from 40 years of windsurfing.
Sadly, I'm phasing out of that beloved sport.
I don't find enjoyment in light wind and the real waves I love could kill me.
"A mans got to know his limits."

 

[oldschoolskier]

Showing off a bit, the best way to get hurt.
Not many 76 year olds can do 10 legitimate wide grip pullups.
Part of the strength came from da gym but a lot from 40 years of windsurfing.
Sadly, I'm phasing out of that beloved sport.
I don't find enjoyment in light wind and the real waves I love could kill me.
"A mans got to know his limits."

You are finally maturing young man and realizing your limits. You are now ready for adulthood.

 

[Dakine]

You are finally maturing young man and realizing your limits. You are now ready for adulthood.

The glass half full viewpoint...

 

[Spam16v]

Longevity comes from bone density, bone density comes from loading the skeleton, loading the skeleton comes from resistance to stimulus, muscles react to the stimulus and connect to the skeleton through connective tissue. It takes longer to build connective tissue than muscle that’s where consistency comes in.

Loading a sedimentary geriatric individual right away will lead to disaster. That’s where light work comes in and keeping the heart loaded Start young and lift often. Motion is lotion. If you’re here and you ski, you’re already ahead of the curve. Keep an eye on your labs & stay active.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

189.5 lbs. *

Spam16v this is something that I did not know: "It takes longer to build connective tissue than muscle that’s where consistency comes in." But it is something which I have experienced with each tendon I have ruptured.

Maybe this is why I intuitively have stayed away from the gym and have always built or maintained muscled by sport. I always thought it was a moral failure on my part because gym is boring compared to sport, but maybe it was my intuition telling me something about my body.

Longevity comes from bone density, bone density comes from loading the skeleton, loading the skeleton comes from resistance to stimulus, muscles react to the stimulus and connect to the skeleton through connective tissue. It takes longer to build connective tissue than muscle that’s where consistency comes in.

Loading a sedimentary geriatric individual right away will lead to disaster. That’s where light work comes in and keeping the heart loaded Start young and lift often. Motion is lotion. If you’re here and you ski, you’re already ahead of the curve. Keep an eye on your labs & stay active.

* It is amazing how little nonprocessed food I actually have to eat to survive, be active and grow muscle . . .

My wife towed me back at the end of our 26 year old 2-stroke standup jet ski river sesson yesterday. Carb filter is likely clogged. I don't have a rebuild kit for it on hand, but assuming that I can get my ski up and running today, will be out there building muscle again this afternoon.

BTW, my wife makes all the boys cry including me with her mad skills. [i.e., 1991 World's Finals Warm Up, 1st Place Slalom]