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How do you know how tight your boots should be?

ppg677

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Ok, thanks for the feedback. Yes, I'm a clueless who skiies less than 4 times/year. I'm also a big DIYer and not committed to this sport. There's a lot of info on the internet that talks about "aggressive" boot fit versus casual. We don't have great ski shops here in Wisconsin. I visited one shop who gave me some advice but did *not* steer me away from 29.5 which I now realize would be WAY TOO HUGE. How's that for expertise?

Also reached out to a friend of mine who is an avid skiier in the Pacific Northwest. He also has an 11.5 shoe size and was fitted into a 28 boot by a professional boot fitter (including punching out part of it). After skiing for several years he says they "feel loose". But that he also says he probably would prefer that loose feeling when skiing all day. So much for professional boot fit??

You all are right if I remove the liner from my very-old 27/27.5 Nordica Syntech F6 boots, that the plastic shell has plenty of room. I had already removed/lost the foot liner...I'm talking about the liner that makes up half the boot. Maybe I'll just keep skiing with these boots for a bit and concentrate on skiing less upright on difficult terrain. Or maybe I'll just order some $170 (clearance) boots that are size 28 (or 28.5) and run with it for now....

Skiing on something smaller than 27 seems crazy to me, but I'll all believe you that it is possible with impeccable technique and great fitting that "punches out" portions of the shell.
 
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James

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After skiing for several years he says they "feel loose". But that he also says he probably would prefer that loose feeling when skiing all day. So much for professional boot fit??
Liners pack out.
This isn’t that complicated, but fitting to one’s foot and body can be very.

The basic shell fit has a certain amount of space between the heel. It varies by intent and use. Someone who only skis 4x per year will take 5 years to achieve the same pack out in a liner that one who skis 20 days/yr.

So, in general, people who only ski 4x/yr are fitted more generously than 20x/yr. If you fitted them the same, the 4x//yr person might spend much of that time in the shop.

That said, boots have changed and can be easier to achieve the balance of fit and comfort. It does rely on the boot person knowing the products.
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
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The new OP is only a recreational skier and doesn't know a proper boot fit. First get some lessons so you don't get back on your heels, second a 27.5 is not too small. Third a 28.5 is too big. I think you said that when you are forward in your 27.5's the toes don't touch, that alone should tell you it is at least the largest size you need. Because everyone has one foot that is larger than the other. You could need a little bit of a toe box modification but that might be on the foot that is larger. But don't get a 28.5 you will be wasting your money.
 

ppg677

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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I took a college class on downhill skiing. (Yes, it was awesome). It enabled me to ski the hardest (mostly groomed) stuff Wisconsin has to offer and go on "Advanced Terrain" on my once-a-year trip out West (which is only 1-2 days of skiing since it is a company trip). I'm back on my heels on ungroomed steep tree/mogul runs but that's about it. Maybe I shouldn't be skiing those runs :)

Got it on 28.5 being too big.

Wearing my 27/27.5 right now...Big toe still jammed when heavily leaning forward. No sense in punching out these ancient boots.

Would 28 be wasting my money? I dunno...if it seems me 3 days of rental fees then it is worth it. And like you said, I need to go more generous with my 4x frequency.

BTW-- rental outfits are clearly putting renters in loose-fitting boots even when "Type 3" is selected.
 
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no edge

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First, if you drive your knee forward (similar to leaning forward) your toes should pull away from the front of the boot - not crunch your toes. If your foot moves forward/back a lot or even a little, that would indicate a fit problem.

Second, most recreational shops fit the boot on the large side to avoid returns. Buy your boots from a shop with a qualified boot fitter. The point made about boots being to large from the rental shop is very common.
 

AtleB

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Dont get hung up on sizes. Go to a qualified bootfitter and describe your issues. He or she will get you sorted both sizewise and in other regards.
 

snwbrdr

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Notes I took from today:

- Rubbing sensation on inner heel (behind inside ankle); both left and right boot
- Lots of pressure when tightented down on top of left food; right food not as bad but still aches
- Bottom of left foot really sore immediately following run (front of arch, behind toes); right foot aches but not unbearable
- Toes okay (although big left toe is sore tonight), shins okay

Custom footbed. My bootfitter was StartHaus in Truckee (recommended from here).

The big issue is pain on my instep. Left boot is the worst but both are very noticeable if clamped down (see below, though).





This makes me feel better. Wondering if I'm just cranking my boots down too hard. Towards the end of the day I just buckled my top buckle. Left my bottom three (towards my toes) unbuckled. Felt fine then.

I think my biggest issue is being able to tell if my performance is "good enough" without buckling down my boots. Think that's what this thread is about. At least for me. How do I know if my boots are performing well enough for how tight they are? Realize that's an experience thing. Intermediate skiier here so that's tough to tell for me. Averaging 10+ days/season—which is a lot for me.
Those are questions to communicate to your bootfitter.

The internet analysis is hard because no one is at your feet with your boots on, knowing what boots you're wearing, etc.

The buckles do have some adjustment on the buckle as it threads into the latch. You can mess with that to loosen the fit a bit before you go to the next latch position... but talk to your bootfitter about that and the bootfitter can make the adjustments with your input right there. There are other things the bootfitter can do, but you need to see the bootfitter to talk to them, rather than relying on internet guesses, because there are variables that the internet (no offense to the people that provided feedback) don't know because as mentioned earlier, they are not there with you and the boots.
 

Tony Storaro

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boots that are size 28 (or 28.5)

Shell is the same. The difference between the two is the thickness of the liner. After 10 days of skiing these will also feel loose.
Please, do yourself a favour, find a proper boot fitter and ask them to fit you into your proper size which is 27.5.
And this will be a comfort/performance fit for you, for race fit you can go for 26,5.

As one who had skied for two years in boots one size too big (my feet are EXACTLY the same length as yours, exactly to the millimetre) and has broken a shoulder because of this, it pains me to see other people going the same way.
 

Henry

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And...boot label size isn't exact, especially when considering different makes of boots. Boot length is just one factor. Width is important as is volume. I have feet like carpenter's pencils--long, skinny, and flat. I need narrow low volume boots. A friend has feet like pancakes, wide & flat. He needs low volume boots able to be widened by the fitter. Your feet...???

Shell fit is a good starting point. Wearing thin ski socks, pull the liner out of the boot. Put your foot in and slide forward until your toes lightly touch. You want 5/8" to 3/4" of space behind your heel. Some call this a one-finger fit, but fingers vary. Something this diameter like a small flashlight or Sharpie pen is a good gauge. Pull the front boot flaps open and look for about 2-3 mm of space on each side of your foot.

A bootfitter can make boots a bit bigger but not smaller. Start with a shell that is as good a fit as you can find...length, width, height of your foot...and let the fitter make small adjustments. Expect adjustments as you break in the liners. Tight spots need to be loosened, and loose spots need to be tightened.
 

L&AirC

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Got it on 28.5 being too big.

Wearing my 27/27.5 right now...Big toe still jammed when heavily leaning forward. No sense in punching out these ancient boots.

Would 28 be wasting my money? I dunno...if it seems me 3 days of rental fees then it is worth it. And like you said, I need to go more generous with my 4x frequency.

BTW-- rental outfits are clearly putting renters in loose-fitting boots even when "Type 3" is selected.

I'm going to be honest. Though I spent the last decade working myself through the PSIA and USSA ranks, I started out in this sport in earnest at the tender young age of 45. I skied a few times in high school but it was the 70s so I don't remember much aside from what my friends tell me. I assure you, that when I say I made every "Jerry of the Day" mistake regarding skill and gear, it is an understatement.

However, because of my overwhelming desire to master this sport, and realization how important gear is to it, I have spent waaayy too much time and money figuring things out. I'm an avid DIYer and was raised believing that paying someone to do something was a last resort (result of having a Dad that had a company in the construction industry). This applies to boots, not taking lessons (first one ever was when I was at 48 y/o the season after I donated my ACL to the sport because I thought I could ski well), and gear. Even on tuning gear I refused to pay the ridiculous prices they charge and would instead go buy BBQ grill brushes from Home Depot. You should see my tuning shop now. You would think I make a living tuning skis.

Most of what I learned from the journey is that like many professions and industries, some things make perfect sense and are intuitive, while others seem like the Mad Hatter had a say in it. Skiing and associated gear is no different. As much as I know about skiing and gear, I drive three hours to see my boot fitter and sit back and enjoy the ride. Some folks here will remember my straying from that a couple seasons ago when after getting new boots fitted by him, something was off and a spent a season toying with them just to get them better, which I eventually did. I should have driven back to him and it would have been corrected in a few minutes. The upside is I learned a ton and do enjoy that, but I also ruined a couple days of skiing and was frustrated a good chunk of the season. The other lesson learned was I was as much as I'm learning and know, I'll never catch up to someone that does this for a living and has been for (my guess) around 20-30 years.

You can listen to all of our advice and opinions. I've been a member of this forum and its predecessors going back to 2008 and have learned an incredible amount, and started out asking things about boots and gear because like most, I was apply the common sense intuitive rules to the ski industry and disregarding the fact that the Mad Hatter had a say in things.

Learning via the internet is like learning a language from a book - you might have the correct grammar, sentence structure and words, but you're probably going to be mispronouncing a bit and when you finally use the language. Next thing you know you're at a pub in some far away land and order a round of beers for you and your friends you want to impress and end up with a bowl of strawberries instead.

There is also the math. Ski boots should last a season or two for avid skiers. I'm talking someone skiing 100 to 200 times a season. There is a point of diminishing returns because if you only ski 2 times a season, your boots aren't going to last 100 years. Probably not even 10 (because of environmental factors). But if we say it is a 5 year investment for someone skiing 4 times per year, and you add a happiness factor, it ends up being cheaper to buy fitted boots. I'll admit I'm not sure how much rentals cost and there are probably some better deals. Even if you cut the cost of rentals in half for the 5 year period, that would mean you spent and extra $400 across 5 years ($700 minus 1/2 of $600=$400) on fitted boots. That comes out to $80 dollars per season, or $20 per trip, to make your skiing experiences more enjoyable. Yes the initial investment sucks but you will be so happy you did by your second or 3 trip it won't matter and you still will have at least 18 more enjoyable ski trips to make.

1610111754834.png


Have fun,

Former Jerry of the Day
 

Henry

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Good stuff, "Jerry," but...I'm in the 7th year in my boots and they're still fine. I've replaced the liners about every 100 ski days--not by counting the days but when they get too roomy. I keep the soles in good condition by wearing sole protectors--Cat Tracks or something similar. (My theory is that soles abraded by walking on pavement get more snow stuck to the bottoms. At the extreme they won't fit the bindings correctly.)
 

L&AirC

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Good stuff, "Jerry," but...I'm in the 7th year in my boots and they're still fine. I've replaced the liners about every 100 ski days--not by counting the days but when they get too roomy. I keep the soles in good condition by wearing sole protectors--Cat Tracks or something similar. (My theory is that soles abraded by walking on pavement get more snow stuck to the bottoms. At the extreme they won't fit the bindings correctly.)

I've been thinking of doing this with my current boots to keep them alive longer. Prior to this pair, I always had something off, so I figured an upgrade was in order anyways.

You do have to pay attention to environmental stresses of the plastic. They go from too warm to too cold and are flexed a bit too. The plastic will eventually fail from the thermal stresses. I had an old borrowed pair when I first started skiing as an adult that I gave away. The recipient let me know that the entire boot sole sheared off while skiing. It stayed in the binding so the brake didn't release and the ski continued down the mountain without him. The boots were about 20 years old though.

Depending on the boots, you can replace the sole plates. When coaching, along with constantly having to go in and out of the building that has metal stairs, we also do a bit of boot skiing. Both of which I attribute to my previous pair of boots having the sole worn down in just over one season (about 50 days for me) to the point the shop wouldn't use them to test the bindings because they were worn too thin. The only surface those boots usually ever touched aside from bindings, was the floor of whatever lodge I was at, the metal stairs and snow of course. This is why I put some of the blame on boot skiing. Until this season, I never booted up in a parking lot.
 

Marker

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That's just the binding release settings. You can ask for tighter boots at the rental.
I started skiing 13 years ago at age 50. The first rental I was put in was 33.5. After a year or so I realized this was waaay too big and started downsizing, first to 32.5 and then 31.5 all while skiing Pocono daytrips. I "thought" I had it right and purchased my own boots and skis online so we could start taking trips to NE. Somewhere in that timeframe I discovered Epicski and the fact that I had done it all wrong. I sold the boots and skis are our local ski shop swap and used the credits to buy my current Lange RS 130 in 30.5. Based on my first day this year, at about day 100 for the boots, my liners are packed out, but I'll need to wait until I'm in VT to see about new liners, that is if it's even possible to get a good one in 30.5 this year!
 

cantunamunch

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You do have to pay attention to environmental stresses of the plastic. They go from too warm to too cold and are flexed a bit too. The plastic will eventually fail from the thermal stresses.

There is also long-term change that isn't necessarily failure - but does change the flex response both in the cuff and the clog. I've stretched boots to 13 seasons before - not something I would ever do again - and the boots I had at the end didn't flex anything like when new.
 

Uncle-A

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I've been thinking of doing this with my current boots to keep them alive longer. Prior to this pair, I always had something off, so I figured an upgrade was in order anyways.

You do have to pay attention to environmental stresses of the plastic. They go from too warm to too cold and are flexed a bit too. The plastic will eventually fail from the thermal stresses. I had an old borrowed pair when I first started skiing as an adult that I gave away. The recipient let me know that the entire boot sole sheared off while skiing. It stayed in the binding so the brake didn't release and the ski continued down the mountain without him. The boots were about 20 years old though.

Depending on the boots, you can replace the sole plates. When coaching, along with constantly having to go in and out of the building that has metal stairs, we also do a bit of boot skiing. Both of which I attribute to my previous pair of boots having the sole worn down in just over one season (about 50 days for me) to the point the shop wouldn't use them to test the bindings because they were worn too thin. The only surface those boots usually ever touched aside from bindings, was the floor of whatever lodge I was at, the metal stairs and snow of course. This is why I put some of the blame on boot skiing. Until this season, I never booted up in a parking lot.
One of the things I have found is if you plan on keeping your boots for a while, order a spare pair of sloe plates early because if you wait till you need them it may be harder to get them. It is not something that a lot of shops care to stock for very long if at all. I had a pair of sole plates fall apart on my wife's Nordica boots and the plates were just not to be found.
 

François Pugh

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One of the things I have found is if you plan on keeping your boots for a while, order a spare pair of sloe plates early because if you wait till you need them it may be harder to get them. It is not something that a lot of shops care to stock for very long if at all. I had a pair of sole plates fall apart on my wife's Nordica boots and the plates were just not to be found.
Quoted for truth.
P.S. Anyone have a set of heel pieces for Koflach 911s?
 

Ogg

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One of the things I have found is if you plan on keeping your boots for a while, order a spare pair of sloe plates early because if you wait till you need them it may be harder to get them. It is not something that a lot of shops care to stock for very long if at all. I had a pair of sole plates fall apart on my wife's Nordica boots and the plates were just not to be found.
Disintegrated heel plates is what made me buy my current boots. The replacements were only available in the UK and with shipping they were well over $100.
 

Uncle-A

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Disintegrated heel plates is what made me buy my current boots. The replacements were only available in the UK and with shipping they were well over $100.
That is why I said buy them early maybe the same year as your boots. I wonder what the manufacturer was charging for the same set of replacement sole plates?
 

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