How does riser height impact slalom ski performance?

[breck]

@breck are you making tele turns, or parallel turns in these races? Either way, great job fighting the good fight. I assume you're skiing the Meidjos with leashes instead of brakes, since tele brakes tend to cause early boot-out since they can't retract. Please post some pics when you get your risers sorted!

Dropping a knee every turn. I have tried parallel but couldn't get it working really. But I do lots of parallel drills however in training.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Related question, but independent of bindings: how much does ski thickness vary from ski model to ski model in the mounting area/under the boot?

 

[Brian Finch]

Related question, but independent of bindings: how much does ski thickness vary from ski model to ski model in the mounting area/under the boot?

Usually a couple mm from civilian to WC skis.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Usually a couple mm from civilian to WC skis.

Assuming the FIS/WC skis are thicker, is there a uniform thickness across all brands? It just seems strange that, after stipulating how thick your sole and foot bed can be, that there's no mention of ski thickness.

 

[dbostedo]

Assuming the FIS/WC skis are thicker, is there a uniform thickness across all brands? It just seems strange that, after stipulating how thick your sole and foot bed can be, that there's no mention of ski thickness.

That's encompassed by stand height, which is base of the ski to bottom of the boot.... thicker ski means you need a lower binding/thinner plate. Thinner ski means you can use a taller binding/thicker plate.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Whoa - I had assumed that stand height was from the top of the ski to the bottom of the boot sole. Suddenly, I'm illegal at 60 mm stand height using a stock riser ....... are. you sure about that?
I'm still under the total height limit of 93 mm, as I don't have much more than 30 mm boot height in the ball/toe boot area, which brings up even more confusing questions for me: in my boots (the most common boot observed in free heeling FIS competition), the boot height (sole to foot bed top) varies significantly from front to back, and just exactly how in the heck do you measure that dimension anyway?

 

[dbostedo]

are. you sure about that?

No, I'm not 100% ... that's how I read it when they say "ski/plate/binding"; that it would be the sum of all of those to calculate the stand height. (But wouldn't go to the top of the binding - only to boot sole when in the binding. That's an assumption on my part.)

It makes intuitive sense the way it's written and I'm interpreting. They only give 2 measurements: Stand Height and Boot Height. And combined, Stand Height + Boot Height, gives you the distance from the snow to your foot if I read it correctly.

But maybe someone more familiar with the regs and how they're implemented can comment.

 

[S.H.]

Whoa - I had assumed that stand height was from the top of the ski to the bottom of the boot sole. Suddenly, I'm illegal at 60 mm stand height using a stock riser ....... are. you sure about that?
I'm still under the total height limit of 93 mm, as I don't have much more than 30 mm boot height in the ball/toe boot area, which brings up even more confusing questions for me: in my boots (the most common boot observed in free heeling FIS competition), the boot height (sole to foot bed top) varies significantly from front to back, and just exactly how in the heck do you measure that dimension anyway?

The FIS rule is 50 mm from the running surface to the ski boot-binding interface:

Note: in FIS-world, this is the "bearing surface height", in USSS-world, it's "stand height".

 

[Paul Lutes]

That certainly settles it then, thanks!
Seems like Rottefella has some 'spraining to do regarding it's Freeride binding plus stock riser plus typical ski height then.
..... or maybe nobody cares because it's free heeling.

 

[S.H.]

Yeah to be clear, those are the *alpine* rules; I have no idea what the rules are for tele.

A quick google seems to indicate next-to-no equipment rules for FIS tele ...

https://assets.fis-ski.com/image/upload/v1603368535/fis-prod/assets/ICR_Telemark_Rules_2020_Only_TM.pdf

 

[Paul Lutes]

Yeah to be clear, those are the *alpine* rules; I have no idea what the rules are for tele.

A quick google seems to indicate next-to-no equipment rules for FIS tele ...

https://assets.fis-ski.com/image/upload/v1603368535/fis-prod/assets/ICR_Telemark_Rules_2020_Only_TM.pdf

Indeed! Finally took the time to track it down for FIS telemark/free-heel, and low and behold ..... NO height limitation for both stand height and boot height! Makes sense, being ugly step children and all.

 

[slow-line-fast]

Indeed! Finally took the time to track it down for FIS telemark/free-heel, and low and behold ..... NO height limitation for both stand height and boot height! Makes sense, being ugly step children and all.

I’ve seen some crazy tele towers underfoot on presumably worldcup athletes, in summer training areas, back when these were in the Northern Hemisphere. Higher stack than Alpine. More than that, I do not know.

 

[Atomicman]

Whoa - I had assumed that stand height was from the top of the ski to the bottom of the boot sole. Suddenly, I'm illegal at 60 mm stand height using a stock riser ....... are. you sure about that?
I'm still under the total height limit of 93 mm, as I don't have much more than 30 mm boot height in the ball/toe boot area, which brings up even more confusing questions for me: in my boots (the most common boot observed in free heeling FIS competition), the boot height (sole to foot bed top) varies significantly from front to back, and just exactly how in the heck do you measure that dimension anyway?

Ski, plate and binding must = 50MM or less. Boot from bottom of sole to top of foot bed at the middle of the heel, as I remember. It's not at the toe. My boys got measured at the finish in a couple of races back in the day. They had a special tool to measure the boot/footbed height that went down in the boot. they measured the overall height to a specified point and then stuck this tool down in the boot at the center of the heel and measured to the same spot and subtracted the 2 to get the difference.

(From USSA site)Boot Height (from sole to top of foot bed) all events 43 mm max.

 

[Paul Lutes]

S
Thanks, A-Man. Fortunately, free-heelers don't have to deal with such nonsense ...... the sky's the limit!

 

[breck]

Indeed! Finally took the time to track it down for FIS telemark/free-heel, and low and behold ..... NO height limitation for both stand height and boot height! Makes sense, being ugly step children and all.

For what it is worth I remember Kieth, US tele team coach, saying he matched the alpine FIS rules height for the team. Not sure why he wanted to do that now that we see the rules, I had thought there was a similar rule for tele. This was back in 2019.