How many wax coats should you put on a new ski

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dovski

dovski

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Wow who knew an 18 month old comment about IR waxing would cause such a controversy. Bottom line is what I have been told is that because of the way IR heat penetrates the base and the duration for which IR penetrates the base it is not great for skis. The ski tech who educated me on this made a point of telling me that most ski manufacturers do not use IR on their skis. He also told me not to use it on my Stöckli skis. These days I do a combination of hot waxing with a very good temperature controlled iron and liquid paraffin. In the past I have experimented with permanent waxing solutions, but ultimately came back to hot wax as my go to solution and now liquid paraffin too.
 

pchewn

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The ability of heat to penetrate Ptex is dependent on the Ptex thermal conductivity, not on the method of applying the heat to the surface of the Ptex. There is no such thing as "penetrating IR heat".

In fact, wouldn't you want the heat to fully penetrate the entire thickness of the Ptex, allowing the base to reach a uniform temperature? Like a hot box.

It seems to me that the lowest temperature, slowest methods would damage the ski the least because there would be the least temperature differential.
 
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dovski

dovski

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The ability of heat to penetrate Ptex is dependent on the Ptex thermal conductivity, not on the method of applying the heat to the surface of the Ptex. There is no such thing as "penetrating IR heat".

In fact, wouldn't you want the heat to fully penetrate the entire thickness of the Ptex, allowing the base to reach a uniform temperature? Like a hot box.

It seems to me that the lowest temperature, slowest methods would damage the ski the least because there would be the least temperature differential.
Now as you may have gathered I am not a scientist or a thermal expert ;) But I the key point I took away was that after 15-20 min under the thermal heater during an IR Wax all layers of the ski are warmed not just the Ptex and that is not a good thing for those layers. This could be completely incorrect information but at the time and the way it was explained to me, it seemed to make sense. Either way I am pretty happy with my current waxing regime and my skis slide well on the snow and quite frankly as long as your ski slide well .....:yahoo:
 

DanoT

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Now as you may have gathered I am not a scientist or a thermal expert ;) But I the key point I took away was that after 15-20 min under the thermal heater during an IR Wax all layers of the ski are warmed not just the Ptex and that is not a good thing for those layers. This could be completely incorrect information but at the time and the way it was explained to me, it seemed to make sense
Yes, it is completely incorrect information. Infrared waxing does not involve 15-20min under a thermal heater. Instead a Future Wax IR machine moves a infrared heat element along a track that travels at a fast speed usually making something like 3 complete tip to tail, tail to tip passes. Speed and number of passes are pre-set but can be varied. The process is faster than using an iron to wax skis.
 
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James

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Wow who knew an 18 month old comment about IR waxing would cause such a controversy. Bottom line is what I have been told is that because of the way IR heat penetrates the base and the duration for which IR penetrates the base it is not great for skis. The ski tech who educated me on this made a point of telling me that most ski manufacturers do not use IR on their skis. He also told me not to use it on my Stöckli skis. These days I do a combination of hot waxing with a very good temperature controlled iron and liquid paraffin. In the past I have experimented with permanent waxing solutions, but ultimately came back to hot wax as my go to solution and now liquid paraffin too.
Almost no skis are hot waxed by the manufacturer. Likely they’re fluff and buff.

So the tech’s statement is kind of absurd.
E.g., t’s also true that almost no manufacturer uses an iron to wax your skis. So don’t use an iron?
More ski maintenance voodoo nonsense. (There’s a fine history of it.)

It’s possible to ruin a ski with any heat source. It’s highly unlikely the Wintersteiger IR waxer is going to harm your skis unless the motor fails. It may have it’s own cutoff in that case. I highly suspect so.

I’ve seen one in operation. There’s no way the whole ski is subjected to 15-20min of infra red heating.

Here’s a vid. They’re waxing a pair of…. Stöckli’s. ogsmile
 

tromano

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I had read that after a grind the ptex base looses smoothness and that it gets hairy. Waxing and in particular lots of scraping smooths the base and trims off the hairs leading to better glide.

Likely waxing helps to seal up some of the pores that otherwise would catch on sharp ice crystals/absorb too much water, thus further reducing surface tension on the ski base.
 

GregK

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I had read that after a grind the ptex base looses smoothness and that it gets hairy
Correct, so after getting a base grind the ski will actually be slower and have less glide unless you do some prep.
I use a brass brush, then Scotch Brite pads to remove those “hairs”, hot wax scrape to clean the base and then start your normal wax routine.

Remember to reset the edge bevels after any stone grind before you do the base work.
 

Atomicman

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Dude, you’re getting old. ogsmile
I am like Benjamin Button...younger each year! :yahoo: Phantom works.....Good Enough! If the snow is one extreme or the other you can throw a coat over it! And surprisingly a stone grind improves it!
 

DanoT

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I didn't want to work indoors last season so I quit my P/T job at a demo centre and in so doing gave up access to a Wintersteiger Futre Wax IR machine. My ski chalet is a trailer and my shed is a sauna, so $600CAD incl. tax to have a shop do 3 pair of skis with the DPS Phantom waxless treatment was perfect for me.

Transitioning from dry to wet snow at the very bottom of the mountain was barely noticeable.
 
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