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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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How much to budget? Just plug your tire size into Costco and price up 4 Michelin Pilot Sport tires. The A/S 3+ is a good enough summer tire for most purposes (and may be the only one that fits your car - Costco folk are funny about installing tires that aren't in their "fitment charts"), but if you're a control freak, you may want to upgrade to one of the other Pilot Sport tires. Bonus - it's not a disaster if you get caught in a late or early snowstorm.

I don't belong to Costco - but point taken!
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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The amount you can save on a set of Pilots could pay for a year's membership (it does here).

I believe you. It's possible .. I may be able to do something similar with Sam's ... ?
 

neonorchid

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The amount you can save on a set of Pilots could pay for a year's membership (it does here).

I believe you. It's possible .. I may be able to do something similar with Sam's ... ?
IDK about Sam's Club. FWIW, I belong to Costco primarily for their tire deal. I find them to be competitive with tire rack dot com price wise. IMO better as the extended warranty covering road hazard damage is free, which over the years has saved me lots of money. Also, in as long as I've been driving I have never reached (usually not even close), the manufacture's given milage for tires and Costco has always been happy to prorate the old set. That I actually come in and have them rotate my tires on a regular basis (a free service with purchase) is enough proof of propper maintenance to honor the rated millage and prorate. Only downside I can think of would be few tire brands to choose from.
 

pete

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Simply put if you want a dollar amount just price some out now and save the mean plus a wee.

Quick look shows range of decently ranked tires between $140 and $180 without mounting.

Some sales prices, some not. Fancier Michelins at higher end

You have time to shop and ask other subie owners.

Side note, I've had a few friends who when buying a new car deal with the dealership to upgrade the tires few an adder but you get benefit of a better title for first 3 to 4 years if using winter's too.

Know a few others who up and sell the new oem tires just to swap to wanted ones

https://tires.costco.com/SearchResultsBySize?SearchID=225|||60|||18|||3|||en-us

www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?zip-code=46614&width=225/&ratio=60&diameter=18&rearWidth=255/&rearRatio=40&rearDiameter=17
 

oldschoolskier

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If you are in the Toronto area, there is a place called Tire World, generally (95% of the time) cheaper than Tirerack, Discount Tire or Costco and they are installed and mounted. The biggest drawback is they only have one shop.
 

nay

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Right, which gets back to my first question, of what is an appropriate price for good tires? Must I really buy in the highest price tier, or is there a sweet spot, as with computer technology and bicycle components, where you get 90% of the benefit at 75% of the price? That sort of thing.

I am so meh about summer tires in CO, because the season is so short, we only get thunderstorm rain, and then the winter tires go back on.

The only thing I did when I had a car (minivan) was use my winter tires over summer. At half tread for winter I would swap and get about 3 summers out of them, which is about what I got out of the winter side. Rinse and repeat. So my budget would be $0 except for a one time rim purchase off craigslist.

Having said that, I see ever increasing numbers of AWD crossovers on hybrid all weather tires. I saw a Ford Explorer on Dick Cepek rubber the other day at Alta, and I’m seeing lots of Subes and other similar cars on the BFG ko2 and other tires in this class.

They are so good in current breed that the time and effort to manage shoulder season tire swapping, especially slushy/soapy where these tires are better than winter tires, is pretty pointless. Plus, they brake and handle better in the long warm season we have where we drive up and back to winter. Most come in p-metric versions for the car sizes so you don’t have the light truck tire weight and construction, plus they are cheaper.

I don’t care what the conditions are, because my tires are good in everything. It’s hard to get over this winter tire thing until you do it, and then it’s really, really easy.

The “jack of all trades” saying actually has another part:

“Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one".

So it goes with tires. And skis.
 

nay

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But my whole question is about price! Because my need is to answer the question "How much should I carve out of my budget for tires?", rather than "I want to buy tires Right Now (or even in the next year)."

Unanswerable?

I think Phil said that my ballpark number is $600. Yes/no?

Yes. $125/tire and then the other costs, with a focus on addressing the shoulder season. Or take 20-30% off that, buy budget, and put the winter tires back on sooner.

It’s best to plan a tire lifespan of about 3-4 years, which means not focusing on high treadlife for low mileage season specific usage, but rather using the tire fully that lifespan.

The more concern you have around shoulder season performance, the more you are going to spend as you should be looking at an all weather (hybrid) tire and not an all season, but if you do that, then you are into my “why swap?” comments above.

The shoulder season is the most dangerous here as I’m sure we all know, because that’s when we get ice and really variable conditions, maximum road idiots, and other trendy conditions. Especially on the passes. The only way to play the summer/winter game there is the winter are on in Sept and off in late May, or you are taking risks that are inconsistent with any belief that only winter tires suffice for winter travel.

And then why anything but a budget tire with a good reputation for Jun/Jul/Aug/half of Sep? So make it $450-$500.
 

Corgski

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I am so meh about summer tires in CO, because the season is so short, we only get thunderstorm rain, and then the winter tires go back on.

The only thing I did when I had a car (minivan) was use my winter tires over summer. At half tread for winter I would swap and get about 3 summers out of them, which is about what I got out of the winter side. Rinse and repeat. So my budget would be $0 except for a one time rim purchase off craigslist.

Having said that, I see ever increasing numbers of AWD crossovers on hybrid all weather tires. I saw a Ford Explorer on Dick Cepek rubber the other day at Alta, and I’m seeing lots of Subes and other similar cars on the BFG ko2 and other tires in this class.

They are so good in current breed that the time and effort to manage shoulder season tire swapping, especially slushy/soapy where these tires are better than winter tires, is pretty pointless. Plus, they brake and handle better in the long warm season we have where we drive up and back to winter. Most come in p-metric versions for the car sizes so you don’t have the light truck tire weight and construction, plus they are cheaper.

I don’t care what the conditions are, because my tires are good in everything. It’s hard to get over this winter tire thing until you do it, and then it’s really, really easy.

The “jack of all trades” saying actually has another part:

“Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one".

So it goes with tires. And skis.
The all-weather tires are still technically winter tires in that they have the mountain/snowflake symbol. Planning on trying the Nokian version (WR G3) on my Outback this winter. If the winter performance is not adequate, I'll use them as all seasons and get more aggressive winter tires.
 

nay

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The all-weather tires are still technically winter tires in that they have the mountain/snowflake symbol.

Well, let’s keep in mind that the mountain snowflake rating only requires 10% better traction than an industry designated all season standard.

When it was introduced, the tire manufacturers seemed to have a gentleman’s agreement to only use it on winter specific tires, but that really went out the window with the Goodyear Duratrac.

Cooper introduced the AT3W and so obliterated the 10% winter standard with a non-winter dedicated tire that they were lobbying for changes to the standard. So we mostly have to rely on manufacturers not using the winter designation unless they want the tire marketed that way and it performs accordingly.

The good news of living in a time of relatively low oil prices again is the rise of the Brodozer market and virtually every tire manufacturer flooding that market with hybrid tires. Some of them make it down to crossover sizes, and some don’t.

Nokian of course is making car sizes. I ran the first version WR “four season” on a Legacy wagon back in ‘02/‘03 and thought that it was a great winter tire. I had fun driving that thing kinda fast in winter, because the tires would break predictably and progressively and then come right back on releasing the throttle. Made a vanilla car more fun, although at least it was a 5-speed manual.

Of course your traction control nanny won’t let you have such fun anymore, but I’ve never felt any reason for a winter tire unless my drivetrain was deficient (2WD) as I really, really don’t like getting stuck on hills. It took studs on 2wd to stop that from happening (mostly).
 

Wilhelmson

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But my whole question is about price! Because my need is to answer the question "How much should I carve out of my budget for tires?", rather than "I want to buy tires Right Now (or even in the next year)."

Unanswerable?

I think Phil said that my ballpark number is $600. Yes/no?

Yes around $600. Once you have chosen a tire find the best price online and print out the price including shipping. Most local tire shops will match the price plus shipping and add on the mounting cost. So $120 x 4 + $30 x 4 = $600.

I have had good perforance with Continental ExtremeContact DWS.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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the time and effort to manage shoulder season tire swapping

Wellll ... for me it's dropping off my car, riding my bike back to the house (mayyyyybe 10 minutes), and picking it up some time in the afternoon. I view moving the wheels/tires into the car as a light workout, so it doesn't bother me ;-)

It’s hard to get over this winter tire thing until you do it, and then it’s really, really easy.

I am hung up on the difference between my WRX with all-seasons vs my husband's BMW with winters ... I realize technology progresses, and now that I think about it, I had that WRX from 2004-2008 ... it's been a few years!

I don't necessarily agree with your comment about "winters at all costs," because it's a risk/reward calculation, and risk is some formula based on likelihood and degree of impact, and the likelihood of driving in really nasty conditions is lower in shoulder season than throughout the winter (partly because of my personal habits and likelihood of choosing to drive in known storm conditions mid-winter vs shoulder).
 

cantunamunch

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I don't necessarily agree with your comment about "winters at all costs," because it's a risk/reward calculation, and risk is some formula based on likelihood and degree of impact, and the likelihood of driving in really nasty conditions is lower in shoulder season than throughout the winter (partly because of my personal habits and likelihood of choosing to drive in known storm conditions mid-winter vs shoulder).

All true but I should point out that you're comparing different objects. You're evaluating the advantage of winters to all seasons (given your driving likelihoods, to your point) where @nay is evaluating winters to hybrids (given his driving likelihoods).

I tend to believe him when he says that there is less direct advantage to winters over hybrids for a general driver. That changes the scale of the multiplier even if all individual driver likelihoods stay the same.

But do they stay the same? It's debatable whether owning hybrids would also affect the owner's driving. If you had a tire that could do *stuff* it might change your likelihood of choosing to drive and your on-road actions.
 
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Thread Starter
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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All true but I should point out that you're comparing different objects. You're evaluating the advantage of winters to all seasons (given your driving likelihoods, to your point) where @nay is evaluating winters to hybrids (given his driving likelihoods).

I tend to believe him when he says that there is less direct advantage to winters over hybrids for a general driver. That changes the scale of the multiplier even if all individual driver likelihoods stay the same.

But do they stay the same? It's debatable whether owning hybrids would also affect the owner's driving. If you had a tire that could do *stuff* it might change your likelihood of choosing to drive and your on-road actions.

Could you or @nay elaborate on what "hybrid" tires are?
 

nay

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All true but I should point out that you're comparing different objects. You're evaluating the advantage of winters to all seasons (given your driving likelihoods, to your point) where @nay is evaluating winters to hybrids (given his driving likelihoods).

I tend to believe him when he says that there is less direct advantage to winters over hybrids for a general driver. That changes the scale of the multiplier even if all individual driver likelihoods stay the same.

But do they stay the same? It's debatable whether owning hybrids would also affect the owner's driving. If you had a tire that could do *stuff* it might change your likelihood of choosing to drive and your on-road actions.

It does change your habits. I would say there is less advantage to a specialist driver. A good experienced winter driver can access any condition on a hybrid that they can access on a dedicated winter tire, but there is a substantial increase in 3D capability with the hybrid. In return, there will be an increased awareness of acceptable speed limit for conditions (which paradoxically is safer).

But here’s the big controversy: at some point today’s all season will be better in winter than yesterday’s winter tire.

Today’s all mountain ski is vastly better than yesterday’s “frontside” ski.

And when that is true, at what point can you narrow your quiver and make the specialty budget = $0?

This is my current hybrid tire.

28D399D2-CD4C-4F68-85B9-33055D6552FF.png


Cooper sez it’s all weather ogwink.
 

fatbob

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I think the "hybrid" category tends to be applied more to truck and truck based SUV type tyres. Certainly in Europe the industry seems to be developing pretty good all season products for cars and referring to them as All-season (which includes being snowflake rated). There are plenty of tests (mainly coming from the German motoring press and organisations) available on this site - menu on the right to look at different tests. See how the Goodyear Vector and the Michelin Crossclimate perform across the board - pretty impressive.

They are pretty much a no brainer for most of Europe now if you are going to be doing occasional journeys in snow or live in a country where winter rated tyres are mandated in winter but still largely have to deal with lots of rain. If you live up an Alp maybe you want your Twingo or Panda shod with full winters still.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2017-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm
 

nay

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^^^Interesting test report where the Continental beat the reference winter tire in both handing and braking.

The days of the winter tire are numbered.
 

scott43

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^^^Interesting test report where the Continental beat the reference winter tire in both handing and braking.

The days of the winter tire are numbered.
I wouldn't say that..however, it will certainly dent the market..
 

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