• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

How to Capture Steepness?

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,612
Location
Maine
Hiking, cycling, skiing ... How do experienced outdoor photographers capture pitch? Where should I stand with respect to the athlete and the hill? What should I make sure to include in the frame? What should I crop out? How should I leverage portrait vs. landscape orientation?
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
Hiking, cycling, skiing ... How do experienced outdoor photographers capture pitch? Where should I stand with respect to the athlete and the hill? What should I make sure to include in the frame? What should I crop out? How should I leverage portrait vs. landscape orientation?
From the side, perspective helps, horizon and/or trees.

Original
IMG_5565.jpeg


Adjusted with horizon level and the lift tower straight.
IMG_5565.jpeg


Front views is really tough to get a good perspective.

@DoryBreaux to the SkiTalk Courtesy Phone
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,419
Vertical references help, but keep the horizon horizontal. Also, seems a low camera viewpoint can help.

B6F12595-73BC-4B4D-9A96-A263C5AFD9BB.jpeg


Here’s 3 from the same spot I think. Very close if not.
DF411BD8-D9EA-4BC3-A969-F33038938E61.jpeg


BF255EB5-7249-47E2-933A-4404A7B9CE46.jpeg


5EADA246-85EA-4A86-BB0F-CF7030EBE7E8.jpeg


The line of the chairlift really helps. The last low from down near the ski helps but prob could’ve used more chairlift. The rocks on the right help also.
 

Jim Kenney

Travel Correspondent
Team Gathermeister
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Posts
3,587
Location
VA
Good topic. I struggle with this too. What Phil says is accurate and you'll see the skier, slope, and horizon in a lot of my shots. Also, for me it sometimes just comes down to luck and volume, take a lot of shots and a few will capture steep.

On Larkspur beside the Zuma lift on backside of Arapahoe Basin:
This is a fairly steep blue square run, @Ken_R
pug cell ken zuma.jpg

but I made it look flat on the same day in May 2019 with @Tony S
TonyS A-Basin Zuma.jpg


One of my favorites of my "home" hill, Blue Knob, PA, Vernette skiing in 2010 on Extrovert trail. This was lucky. I just snapped the shot quickly looking back over my shoulder.
hot chocolate verna extrover blue knob 2010.jpg


Of course, shooting people in real steep terrain can help too :ogbiggrin:
Corbets at Jackson Hole 2015, older anonymous skier:
older guy dropping into corbets couloir 2015.jpeg


Delirium Dive at Sunshine Banff, 2018
sunshine delirium entrance.png


I post more later that maybe will offer further explanation.
 
Last edited:

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,419
No, that’s bubble, but does look like the same setup. Is that the Attelas bubble?
Yellow circled.

The other was Lac des Vaux 2, 2019 Verbier. Blue circle.

It’s not super steep, and not exposed, but while I was taking that photo, a young kid from the chairlift said, “Bonne chance monsieur!”

52BD3F34-68A0-4BDA-96ED-B13C2108E908.jpeg
 

jseeski

Skiing a little BC powder
Skier
Joined
Mar 16, 2018
Posts
191
Location
Salmo, British Columbia, Canada
From the side, perspective helps, horizon and/or trees.

I always have trouble conveying steepness, even when I do as Phil says.

Looking up the slope doesn't help, and it often does weird things to perspective. Looking up at a group of trees will make them lean in toward the middle. In the shot below, the trees on the right lean to the left and the trees on left lean to the right. There are some in the middle that are pretty straight, but the perspective is still confusing. To me, the shot doesn't make it look particularly steep, although most would find the terrain shown pretty intimidating in real life.

210325 P1110584 Sleeper.jpg


This does a little better. It's from the side and the trees are more or less straight up and down. Still, it doesn't look all that steep in the photo.

210325 P1110575 Sleeper.jpg


Verdict: Failure to adequately convey steepness!
 

Rod9301

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Posts
2,443
When somebody's skiing, photograph from above, this will show the steepness best.
If someone's climbing a steep couloir, from below.
 

geepers

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2018
Posts
4,256
Location
Wanaka, New Zealand
When somebody's skiing, photograph from above, this will show the steepness best.

Not so sure about that.

Issue is that in steep terrain it's hard to capture both the skier, the run and the horizon in the same frame. If the camera starts out level to show the horizon then the skier and the run and way below the photographer's feet and not in frame. Pan down to show the skier and there's no horizon to act as a reference. The terrain looks mild and sometimes can even provide the illusion of being uphill!

The side shot as per @Philpug seems to show it the best but in a narrow chute there may not be space or a good vertical reference.
 

Jim Kenney

Travel Correspondent
Team Gathermeister
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Posts
3,587
Location
VA
TonyS in Harmony Trees, Whistler 2017. Getting someone's face and also capturing steep at the same time is difficult.
tonys whistler harmony trees.JPG

@SpikeDog on North Chute at Snowbird, spring 2017. Love this photo, but it's such a close-up that you can't appreciate how steep this run is.
brian north chute.jpeg


Vince, Blackcomb Glacier 2017, cropping this photo added a little mystery about what's below.
vince blackcomb glacier.JPG

Vince on Lookout Below at Whiteface, 2014
Copy (3) of DSCN3183.JPG


Vince on High Rustler at Alta, January 2011
alta high rustler vince.jpg


Vince, K27 (or nearby) at Hunter Mtn, 2014
vince hunter 2014.JPG

Chute/Liftline at Mad River Glen
c92fe090_MRGextradays056.jpeg


January 2013 Main Chute in the Quail Face section of Homewood. The expression on my face was intended to help convey the steepness of this terrain if the photo didn't do it justice. Lake Tahoe is just to the right.
jim homewood (2).JPG
 

SSSdave

life is short precious ...don't waste it
Skier
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Posts
2,516
Location
Silicon Valley
Beyond what Phil related, a normal lens view will better capture actual lateral slope pitch versus a wide angle lens. That is also why smartphones may be mediocre choices. Also note, a lens will have more distortion if not held level horizontal that shows as bending elements at frame edges. Even if a camera is held horizontal, cheaper lenses may show edge bending though that can be improved in Photoshop.

Additionally having elements like vertical trees in an image helps perception of slope angle. And of course, capturing an image when lighting allows good snow slope detail and shading is important for any image. Thus a shot in flatter light or direct light or with too much shade are negatives.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,419
This is Mont Fort,
3092AABF-015F-467E-A351-52F5D8742F98.jpeg

An above shot from the stairs top of Mt Fort on a nice day. That narrow piste can be pretty hairy, when the wind is blowing, the trail is polished snow, and the double fall line, bleh. Just get me to the hard part, this easy part is too much. It amazes me that people who are frankly bad skiers and shouldn’t be up there, regularly go down it then freak at the mogul field. People to left of stairs are going off piste backside.

Those stairs are a palace compared to the old ones top of the Grands Montets in Chamonix. Yikes. I heard they replaced them though.
F88AB918-B9DA-4F6C-B7D0-1FA1DA852699.jpeg

Later down, left of piste.


EDD4900F-26BA-4702-AFC3-42D2C8BA2A7F.jpeg

@SBrown , great shot. I remember that “traverse” or whatever it is behind them when I went to Taos in 2000. Scary with the drop off, I had to question whether I really could do a wedge turn. Best prep for that is skiing the top of a half pipe where the outside falls off too. I get kids who are good skiers that refuse.

I think I agree that shooting from above with skiers can work.
01E7C355-8290-46F5-80F2-5DF884F0CC6E.jpeg

Vallée Blanche Chamonix

1911EBFA-5F4B-4704-B62E-65C43D9B828E.jpeg

This is prob better to show steepness. More space around subjects, taken from slightly higher.
 

DoryBreaux

Not the Pixar Character
Industry Insider
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
948
Location
Sleeping in a mop closet
The easiest way to show steepness is to shoot within a 90 degree zone of looking straight across the fall line and having either the horizon or a tree or lift tower in frame for reference. Note, don't use towers that aren't vertical.
Looking straight up or straight down is a lot harder to do when showing pitch. Completely doable, obviously, but best to be figured out after you get the feeling for it the way outlined above.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,419
but I made it look flat on the same day in May 2019 with @Tony S
C5100698-CD97-42AA-A0CE-547F25ECD567.jpeg

That’s a great shot. It’s pretty accurate for parts of that trail. Wasn’t a snowboarder removed from the background?

More importantly, @Tony S can use it to show those cantankerous bootfitters he has to deal with.
 

Seldomski

All words are made up
Skier
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Posts
3,051
Location
'mericuh
Looking at my own photos and these in the thread, the natural tendency for the photographer seems to be to lean into the hill slightly. This skews the horizon to make it look flatter than it really is. Even in videos, it seems the camera man tends to lean uphill a little bit. Couple this with the fact that most people feel the terrain they ski is steeper than it actually is, you get a lot of ski photos where things look flat.

Even the steep photo @SBrown took of the snowboarder is actually skewed a bit flatter than it really is based on the trees in the background. Wow that's a steep run.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top