How's the edge tuning quality by Razor tune?

[tube77]

I am about to purchase the Razor tune but before I pull the trigger I would like ensure that the Razor tune produces the shop quality edge sharpness and perfection.
Often time, I am not able to eliminate tiny nicks or nano roughness (not burr) along the diagonal direction by hand or it just takes way too long to make it sharp enough at a self-satisfaction level.
How's the end quality of the edge smoothness but sharp by the Razor Tune compared to the shop tuning or new skis?

 

[S.H.]

Depends on the shop/tuner you're using as a reference.

And, well ... the operator of the Razor Tune.

But in practiced hands, it's very good. Are you going to see the product on world cup? Probably not. Is it going to be better than what you can produce by hand? Very likely (or at least, it will be quicker).

 

[tube77]

Depends on the shop/tuner you're using as a reference.

And, well ... the operator of the Razor Tune.

But in practiced hands, it's very good. Are you going to see the product on world cup? Probably not. Is it going to be better than what you can produce by hand? Very likely (or at least, it will be quicker).

Thank you for your comment!
Absolutely I am not aiming to get the WC level tuning.
Besides the level of consistency and precision that can be offered by highly practiced operator, I will be satisfied if the Razor tune can offer smooth and sharp edges like factory tuned new skis or automated Montana machine tuned skis.

 

[S.H.]

Thank you for your comment!
Absolutely I am not aiming to get the WC level tuning.
Besides the level of consistency and precision that can be offered by highly practiced operator, I will be satisfied if the Razor tune can offer smooth and sharp edges like factory tuned new skis or automated Montana machine tuned skis.

I mean, a $200K Montana machine with a seasoned operator is going to give you a better outcome than a $400 Razor Tune that you're using for the 10th time.

But that same machine can give a very mediocre (or bad) tune if the operator isn't that good, that you can definitely do better with than a Razor Tune.

Also depends on the starting condition of the skis.

 

[bbbradley]

@Burton If you are out there, can you comment?

He's been a RT fan for a few years and has a fleet of skis to tune.

 

[Wade]

I’ve been really happy with mine.

I don’t claim to be an expert hand tuner and I’m sure there are plenty of tricks a pro might use that I don’t know, but I was always pretty happy with how my hand tuned edges came out - sharp and they always skied well.

I switched to a Razor Tune a couple of seasons ago and haven’t looked back. The edge quality and sharpness are equal to or better than my hand tunes, and it saves me a lot of time in taking care of the family’s skis.

For me, the primary benefits are in efficiency and consistency rather than a massive step up in the quality of the tune, but the tune quality is also very good.

 

[anders_nor]

I'm really really close to doing this... good reviews here and on site..


I dont think a 400k machine and good operator is the choice you can have on a daily bases, or I would have done it!

its up against myself with the most expensive swix jig, and some some diamond and ceramics.

my use is masters racing, and freeskiiing.

 

[mdf]

I have one of the other kinds of motorized edge tools. I am very happy with the result, as evidenced by edge hold on ice.

 

[KingGrump]

I will be satisfied if the Razor tune can offer smooth and sharp edges like factory tuned new skis or automated Montana machine tuned skis.

Lot to unpack in that one sentence. Lots of assumptions.

Smooth and sharp - Can be sharp but definitely won't be smooth. Want smooth, hit it with some diamond stones.
Factory tuned new skis - pretty low bar there. I can probably achieve that with a rock from the side of the road.
Automated Montana machine tuned skis - The good, the bad and the ugly. All from the same machine. A machine is only as good as the operator.

 

[hbear]

Tune can be great. Remember there is only what 2-3 companies that make the disk media. So effectively the stones used are the same (Snow Glide, Razr tune, Trione, etc.) Spin speed differs but that can be adjusted with speed of pass.

Has nothing to do with cost of machine, I've seen skis RUINED by operators with 500k machines, and absolute WC quality tunes (because WC tech) with Snowglides.

 

[Dwight]

I have the sidecut but haven't used it much this year. Even with the side cut, you need to file the edge first to the correct side angle. Does the Razor Tune file or sharpen the edge angle?

 

[mdf]

With the coarse wheel on the Toko unit you can change the angle. We did it to a pair of skis (1 to 2) in the garage of our Taos Airbnb. Then switch to the fine wheel for a pass.

Sidewall pull-back prep is still needed.

 

[KingGrump]

Does the Razor Tune file or sharpen the edge angle?

I will rip back the side wall prior to resetting edge angle with the Razortune. Don't want the side wall to gum up the grinding wheels.
I'll start with the coarse wheel for couple passes and inspect the edge for progress. I'll use the coarse wheel to complete the reset the side edge before switching to the medium wheel for the finishing cut. I do not use the fine wheel much.

The number of passes required to reset the edge angle will be dependent on the condition of the ski. Processed six new pairs of skis this early season. The three "premium" skis required at least 6 passes with the coarse stone to reset most of the ski. On one pair, the front of the ski (toe binding forward) required 12 passes with the coarse stone to get it done. The other two pairs needed additional passes for the front part of the ski for the reset. The edge finish on these skis were inconsistent to say the very least. I believe the word atrocious comes to mine.

The first edge reset on a pair of M5, 2 passes with the coarse stone gave a perfect edge. So I did the remaining edges with the medium stone only. The factory edge angle was spot on. The same story with a pair of Secret and a pair of Kenja.

 

[Dwight]

I will rip back the side wall prior to resetting edge angle with the Razortune. Don't want the side wall to gum up the grinding wheels.
I'll start with the coarse wheel for couple passes and inspect the edge for progress. I'll use the coarse wheel to complete the reset the side edge before switching to the medium wheel for the finishing cut. I do not use the fine wheel much.

The number of passes required to reset the edge angle will be dependent on the condition of the ski. Processed six new pairs of skis this early season. The three "premium" skis required at least 6 passes with the coarse stone to reset most of the ski. On one pair, the front of the ski (toe binding forward) required 12 passes with the coarse stone to get it done. The other two pairs needed additional passes for the front part of the ski for the reset. The edge finish on these skis were inconsistent to say the very least. I believe the word atrocious comes to mine.

The first edge reset on a pair of M5, 2 passes with the coarse stone gave a perfect edge. So I did the remaining edges with the medium stone only. The factory edge angle was spot on. The same story with a pair of Secret and a pair of Kenja.

Is the coarse wheel, coarser than 400 grit?

 

[tube77]

Lot to unpack in that one sentence. Lots of assumptions.

Smooth and sharp - Can be sharp but definitely won't be smooth. Want smooth, hit it with some diamond stones.
Factory tuned new skis - pretty low bar there. I can probably achieve that with a rock from the side of the road.
Automated Montana machine tuned skis - The good, the bad and the ugly. All from the same machine. A machine is only as good as the operator.

That's good to know. I didn't expect the operator dependent quality from the automated machines.
I thought what needs for the machine is nothing but pressing buttons for the desired settings.
Then the outcome would be consistent as long as the same buttons were pushed.
Isn't that the reason why the shops pay for the hefty price for machine?
I don't understand where in the machine operating steps the operator dependency comes into play.
Would you please enlighten me if you have knowledge?

 

[James]

I don't understand where in the machine operating steps the operator dependency comes into play.
Would you please enlighten me if you have knowledge?

The biggest issue is there is no feedback loop to tell the machine what is happening. So it’s really dependent on operator checking to get high quality results.
The automated machines are designed for high through put. The base will look nice, but may not be. Otherwise, it’s hard to justify the $250-$450k + cost.

 

[hbear]

And if not setup correctly, small fluxtuations in how the ski is put into the machine, pressure used, etc. will result in differing results. Bindings on/off, even plates, etc. will effect the end result.
You'd think it's set it and forget it...but it's not quite so simple. Operator skill is still very much required.

We are talking very small variances to effect massive change. E.g. 0.5* base to 0.7* base doesn't take much to mess up....and will result in wildly different ski performance.

 

[Burton]

@bbbradley you rang?

I've used the razortune for a few years and I really like it. Unlike some other moderately-priced disc grinders *cough EvO cough* it is easy to use without screwing up your skis if the tool slips. My 12 and 14 year old kids use it, and have used it for a couple of years, without big screw-ups.

I always get edge angles set with an initial shop tune from a shop that specializes in good race tunes, or for non-race skis I may set the side angles with a file, and then my routine is a few passes of the RT followed always by diamond or ceramic stones to remove any micro-serration. Assuming you get the edge angles set correctly from the get go and periodically pull some sidewall, in my opinion the RT + stones produces a better edge than you'll get from a shop machine. At this point, for ongoing ski maintenance, I only get base grinds from shops and handle the side edges myself. I also think I can get more life out of the ski tuning the side edge myself.

That all said, quality control has been an issue. My tool has worked flawlessly, but the power transformer died, as did the transformer on a buddy's RT. He got his replaced for the price of shipping or something. Also, some people I know have had issues with the balance of the grinding wheel, as their tools tend to be louder and feel rougher than mine. Keep in mind that RT is a tiny operation, maybe one guy? I think these issues may have been resolved. I've used mine to do hundreds of tunes and aside from the power brick, it's been very solid.

In my house, we end up tuning several pair of skis a week for racing, and if my RT dies and I haven't won the lottery to enable buying the snowglide, I'd get another RT right away.

Quick edit--I recently used a buddy's snow glide, and there's no doubt it's a better machine, but it's what, 3-4x the price? I think for most people the RT is the best value and produces excellent results.

 

[GB_Ski]

I watched the EVO tuner video. I have to ask. How do you screw that up? Especially if you have a vise that can be slanted at an angle.

 

[S.H.]

I watched the EVO tuner video. I have to ask. How do you screw that up? Especially if you have a vise that can be slanted at an angle.

pretty easy to have the tool slip off the edge