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How's the edge tuning quality by Razor tune?

James

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Thanks, all! That gives me an idea. Off to read up on sidewall cutter options.

With the right sidewall material and planer, sidewall cutting is very satisfying. Long twisty colored ribbons. Often end up in far away places as they cling to clothing.

Most/all of your skis will have easy planing sidewalls. Caps get weird and smell very strange, like burnt hair bad but different.

Just get Aman’s planer.
 

TheArchitect

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TheArchitect

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I think I read up-thread that you need to file at the tips and tails to blend in what the Razor-Tune can't get to. Maybe @James said it? Anyway, I don't have a panzer file or 7* bevel (83* equivalent?). Can anyone recommend a good file and bevel?
 

James

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I think I read up-thread that you need to file at the tips and tails to blend in what the Razor-Tune can't get to. Maybe @James said it? Anyway, I don't have a panzer file or 7* bevel (83* equivalent?). Can anyone recommend a good file and bevel?
You just need the edge guide, 2 or 3 degrees, whatever your using for your side edge.
 

KingGrump

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I think I read up-thread that you need to file at the tips and tails to blend in what the Razor-Tune can't get to. Maybe @James said it? Anyway, I don't have a panzer file or 7* bevel (83* equivalent?). Can anyone recommend a good file and bevel?

I always finish my skis with blending in the tips and tails by hand. Both the side edge and the base edge bevel (if the shop doesn't do it.) I like my skis sharp tip to tail.
That was one of the details I discussed with Alain at Taos before dropping them off for a full tune. I have only done base grinds with him previous. He assured me that is the same way he does his skis. He was ex French National team and teched for Tamara McKinney. Hell of a salesman too. :ogbiggrin:

Beast makes a 7° side wall guide. It is pretty crappy. The finish on that piece was atrocious out of the package. Took me about 15 minute of tweaking before I can let it near my skis. The guide is very small too. difficult to get a good grip on it. Threw it in the tuning package for my son when he moved to CA.

For my own use. I put a 3° SVST shim on a SVST 3° side edge file guide. That setup gives me 6°. Close enough. When I need more, I'll roll the guide over a bit more and I am good.
An 100 mm Panzer file should be good.

A work around for the 6°/7° guide is to put a tongue depressor under the panzer file on a 3° guide. That will get you there.

The panzer/guide combo is really nice and necessary when beveling the titanal plates at the tip and tail. It's great for cleaning up the ragged top sheet edges also.
 

sparty

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ff you trust your ability to hold a tool precisely enough, you can also use a sanding drum on a Dremel (or another, similar, power tool) for shaping the tips and tails.
 

Brian Finch

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KingGrump

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The panzer is much faster than a Dremel.

Since we drifted to working on the sidewall.

 

Rich_Ease_3051

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If I like a detuned tip and tail, I just sharpen normally by starting and ending the sharpening (resting the wheels) at the apex of the tip and tail?
 

KingGrump

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If I like a detuned tip and tail, I just sharpen normally by starting and ending the sharpening (resting the wheels) at the apex of the tip and tail?

You can just leave it as is from the machine. Blending in the the tip and tail portion to where the machine starts and stop will yield a smoother transition.
Don't have to sharpen the tip & tail all the way to the end. Just blend in the transition.
 

Dave Marshak

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ff you trust your ability to hold a tool precisely enough, you can also use a sanding drum on a Dremel (or another, similar, power tool) for shaping the tips and tails.
I love me my power tools but I’m not spooling another one up for a job I can more easily do by hand. YMMV

dm
 

Dave Marshak

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Anyone who is serious about keeping their skis sharp should have cut resistant gloves in their toolbox. That is all.

dm
 

Dave Marshak

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I always thought that a little bit of blood from tuning makes the bases run faster :)
That's what I thought until I cut my finger to the bone a couple of years ago.

dm
 

TheArchitect

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You just need the edge guide, 2 or 3 degrees, whatever your using for your side edge.

I always finish my skis with blending in the tips and tails by hand. Both the side edge and the base edge bevel (if the shop doesn't do it.) I like my skis sharp tip to tail.
That was one of the details I discussed with Alain at Taos before dropping them off for a full tune. I have only done base grinds with him previous. He assured me that is the same way he does his skis. He was ex French National team and teched for Tamara McKinney. Hell of a salesman too. :ogbiggrin:

Beast makes a 7° side wall guide. It is pretty crappy. The finish on that piece was atrocious out of the package. Took me about 15 minute of tweaking before I can let it near my skis. The guide is very small too. difficult to get a good grip on it. Threw it in the tuning package for my son when he moved to CA.

For my own use. I put a 3° SVST shim on a SVST 3° side edge file guide. That setup gives me 6°. Close enough. When I need more, I'll roll the guide over a bit more and I am good.
An 100 mm Panzer file should be good.

A work around for the 6°/7° guide is to put a tongue depressor under the panzer file on a 3° guide. That will get you there.

The panzer/guide combo is really nice and necessary when beveling the titanal plates at the tip and tail. It's great for cleaning up the ragged top sheet edges also.

Okay, so am I reading these as saying two different opposing things or am I being obtuse? Or maybe @James is saying 3* for the sharpening and @KingGrump is saying 6* for sidewall planing? I can't imaging 6* for the sharpening of the steel edge.

Sorry for taking us off the topic but it's part of my Razor Tune purchase so at least it's related ogsmile
 

James

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I’m just talking edge.
The razor tune can’t do the ends well, so you blend the metal edge where it can’t go by hand.

I rarely use the 7 deg guide to hold a panar to plane sidewall. (Pansar because regular files don’t cut plastic well)
I use the blade type. For years I had the cheap $20 one (they charge $40 now), but it takes much more finagling/technique to use those.

The whole point is you want to get the sidewall slightly below the metal edge. How you do this doesn’t matter that much. People used to use the end of a file, (usually sheared off at the factory so it’s sharp), and scrape or chisel it down. That has obvious dangers.
People get lost in the personal techniques of others. They’re working methods.
Many ways to make scrambled eggs.

Btw, a long, 10-12 inch pansar is nice to cut the top sheet/sidewall edge down. (Though power tools are easier.) But most people freak at doing that to brand new skis.

I’m still annoyed at Seth Masia for his stupid book years ago, “Tip to Tail”, where everything is done in that direction. Try filing one side of a ski that way. Eventually I realized this is stupid, it’s just removing metal and bring two planes to a point from one side. No different than any other metal.

As someone I used to work for would say, “There’s many ways to skin a cat, but not that many ways to avoid getting blood on the walls.”
 

KingGrump

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6/7° for side wall. 2/3° for side edge bevel.

The idea is to remove just enough of the sidewall so the grinding wheel/file doesn't get fouled up with the softer sidewall material.

The panzer is the key in the final trimming of the sidewall. The teeth are large enough to cut the soft side material without clogging. Even a bastard (first cut) file will get gummed up with the sidewall material.

If you don't have a 6/7° guide and you have decent hands. You can clamp the panzer on a 2/3° guide, roll the file/guide set up over a bit and semi free hand the sidewall. I do that often at the tip and tail to clean up the titanal sheets. Works really well with cleaning up the top sheet edge. Just flare out the panzer from the guide a bit.

When the files get loaded, the best way to clean out a file is use a small brass brush from Home Depot.

The Razortune will required cleaning on occasions.
The angled guide pad will often get loaded with splotches of steel dust and wax. I get rid of that with some wax cleaner and a small piece of white Scotchbrite. Followed by paper towel.
The grinding housing will get caked with steel dust. The grinding wheel has a lip on the inside of the grinding media that will collect ton of that steel dust also. A narrow piece of plastic and a flux brush will clean it up quick.
Every so often, wet lapping of the grinding wheel by hand on a 600 grit silicone carbide paper over a glass plate will keep the wheel clean and cutting well.
 

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