Hybrid setup

[cwe6279]

I "accidentally" bought two pairs of skis - Salomon stance 96 and Elan Ripstick Black edition 96. The Salomon are geared 100% toward resort skiing West and East Coast (50/50) and it makes for a solid all mountain ski anywhere...

Since I have this extra pair of Ripsticks I was hoping to set them up as a hybrid 60/40 (resort downhill/backcountry) given they are a good bit lighter and I don't intend to do more than a couple of days a year doing backcountry stuff - the rest of the time I'd be using the Ripsticks in resort alpine mode for trees, bowls and mogul type stuff as an alternate ski to the Salomon.

I was eyeing the Marker Duke PT 16s (for some reason the 12s seem to get crappier reviews about breakage) as a possible binding for both modes on this Ripstick black 96 but wondering if I'm asking too much from a setup in doing something like this. Any input on ideal setup and whether this is even a good idea is welcome!

thanks

 

[BMC]

Sounds good.

I have no idea of your size so I can’t “weigh in” on the appropriateness of the Duke 16 PT but it’s a heavy AT binding - the heaviest except CAST and plate AT bindings - so you’d be losing some of the weight “savings” from the Elan by going in that direction. Do you really need a 16 DIN? How serious are these criticisms of the lighter 12’s durability? They’re almost exactly the same design so I find it hard to believe there’s a material difference in durability.

If it was me in your shoes (and it’s not - it’s you in your shoes!) I’d go with a Shift or Kingpin on the Elan. A bit lighter in weight, but at least with the Shift all the benefits of DIN release in a lighter package, that can stand up to resort skiing. The Kingpin would be another step toward more AT emphasis, a touch lighter again, no DIN toe release, but Alpine heel power and performance.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

We went with frame bindings to our with our alpine boots with the intention of switching to a full AT binding should we end up doing it a lot. We've several friends who use frame bindings with their alpine boots and are very happy.

 

[Ken_R]

I "accidentally" bought two pairs of skis - Salomon stance 96 and Elan Ripstick Black edition 96. The Salomon are geared 100% toward resort skiing West and East Coast (50/50) and it makes for a solid all mountain ski anywhere...

Since I have this extra pair of Ripsticks I was hoping to set them up as a hybrid 60/40 (resort downhill/backcountry) given they are a good bit lighter and I don't intend to do more than a couple of days a year doing backcountry stuff - the rest of the time I'd be using the Ripsticks in resort alpine mode for trees, bowls and mogul type stuff as an alternate ski to the Salomon.

I was eyeing the Marker Duke PT 16s (for some reason the 12s seem to get crappier reviews about breakage) as a possible binding for both modes on this Ripstick black 96 but wondering if I'm asking too much from a setup in doing something like this. Any input on ideal setup and whether this is even a good idea is welcome!

thanks

Which boots do you have? I would definitely do a pin binding on the Elans to have much more differentiation between the 2 setups. Also pin bindings are MUCH simpler and easier to tour in. There are some really good options available nowadays.

 

[cwe6279]

Sounds good.

I have no idea of your size so I can’t “weigh in” on the appropriateness of the Duke 16 PT but it’s a heavy AT binding - the heaviest except CAST and plate AT bindings - so you’d be losing some of the weight “savings” from the Elan by going in that direction. Do you really need a 16 DIN? How serious are these criticisms of the lighter 12’s durability? They’re almost exactly the same design so I find it hard to believe there’s a material difference in durability.

If it was me in your shoes (and it’s not - it’s you in your shoes!) I’d go with a Shift or Kingpin on the Elan. A bit lighter in weight, but at least with the Shift all the benefits of DIN release in a lighter package, that can stand up to resort skiing. The Kingpin would be another step toward more AT emphasis, a touch lighter again, no DIN toe release, but Alpine heel power and performance.

5'9" 165 lbs... PT 12s would definitely be fine for me based on the DIN specs I've seen. It was more a quality concern + erring heavily on the aggressive downhill side, but totally open to more experienced opinions. The other thing attractive about the Marker Duke PT is that they appear to work with alpine toes in addition to tech toes? I am not 100% sure if that is the case with other suggestions like the Shift and Kingpin (hard to tell from some of the online info)? At the moment only have Fischer alpine boots, but also learning you really need pins; however for now the alpine toe option is a 'nice to have' because I have a teen who also uses both pair and he only has alpine and no interest in backcountry at the moment.

As for frame bindings I'm not opposed to anything. I was just hoping to retain some of the light weight the Elans offer and frames generally are bulkier I believe? Any suggestions on brands/models to check out?

 

[EricG]

@cwe6279 - you can ski the Shifts or PT’s ‘inbounds’ with alpine boots and when you get a boot with tech fittings you can use them with the toe pins side country. Frame bindings are so high, heavy & clunky, especially after you use newer options. I’ve got 3 sets of Shift 13’s with no issues (once adjusted properly).

 

[BMC]

5'9" 165 lbs... PT 12s would definitely be fine for me based on the DIN specs I've seen. It was more a quality concern + erring heavily on the aggressive downhill side, but totally open to more experienced opinions. The other thing attractive about the Marker Duke PT is that they appear to work with alpine toes in addition to tech toes? I am not 100% sure if that is the case with other suggestions like the Shift and Kingpin (hard to tell from some of the online info)? At the moment only have Fischer alpine boots, but also learning you really need pins; however for now the alpine toe option is a 'nice to have' because I have a teen who also uses both pair and he only has alpine and no interest in backcountry at the moment.

As for frame bindings I'm not opposed to anything. I was just hoping to retain some of the light weight the Elans offer and frames generally are bulkier I believe? Any suggestions on brands/models to check out?

Ok as above you can ski the Shifts without a Pin toe (ie normal alpine boots) In downhill mode.

However, unless you plan to buy boots with a pin toe, you won’t be able to use the touring capability on the Shift or Marker Duke PT. Yes you could use them as normal alpine bindings with normal alpine boots, but whats the point? If you want to buy those bindings you should buy ski boots with pins in the toes.

If you plan to stick with your alpine boots just get some frame AT bindings. The best combination of light weight and reliability is probably the Marker Tour 10. There are other options, some heavier and some lighter but that would seem to be the seeet spot.

 

[Idris]

I would go with a Marker FT10. If you end up doing a lot of touring then something simple but effective like a GE Icon 10/12. I have seen plenty of broken Shift/Kingpin et al but no FT's or Icons while bashing laps on the Aiguille du Midi.

 

[cwe6279]

thanks all- super helpful input to consider!

 

[ELDoane]

I tour on the Shifts and ski them inbounds plenty. I have skied the Duke PT as well on half a dozen runs.

First off, if you don't buy tech boots, these bindings are worthless. Less elastic travel, more expensive, and more prone to breakage than a regular alpine binding. Unless you are getting a hybrid boot or a touring specific one, don't bother buying these bindings.

Now, that said, I've skied the Shift in all kinds of inbounds, high consequence terrain with no issues. The pins are only engaged on the way up, it's a regular alpine toe on the way down. They are certainly lighter weight and thinner metal so if you're hard on your gear, you will eventually break them. They are also much more finicky than a regular binding. You must be vigilant on keeping the AFD adjusted right and I ski mine with a smidge more forward pressure than necessary to try to prevent prerelease. They are also sensitive to snow buildup when you step in, so get those boots clear. If you are worried about your son hammering on these with just regular alpine boots, the downhill performance will be fine, but it's an expensive, more fragile option for such a pursuit.

The Duke strikes me as far more durable and alpine oriented. But it weighs a ton and that removable toe piece is a pain in the ass. If I needed the security of the Duke, I'd just go all in and ski a Cast binding instead. Finally, frame bindings are the devil. I still have nightmares about my Fritschi Freerides.

Bottom line, if you're going to tour, it's like all things in skiing. Buy the right boots first and worry about the rest later.

 

[Bruno Schull]

I would go Shifts for sure.

Check out the discussion about release function on the last two pages (14-15) of this thread.

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/alpine-touring-hybrid-setup.19758/page-15

 

[slow-line-fast]

Sorry if I misunderstand, but touring with alpine boots is a recipe for not liking touring. I’d suggest that the accidental ski purchase cause intentional purchases of a freeride oriented touring boot, and a freeride oriented pin binding.

 

[cwe6279]

thanks and yes turned my attention to boots first based on the feedback above- at the moment I'm a bit late in the season anyway so have some time to work out a boot and then go back to the bindings discussion