Hybrids - The New Winter Tire

[cosmoliu]

@cosmoliu any update to your satisfaction with these tires? I'm debating between them and the Blizzaks. I love the idea of not having to swap out my tires and just keeping the CC2s on year round but just not sure. Would love some feedback.

Sorry, still no experience on snow with the CC2s. I did hear from a friend of mine that last week at Mammoth would have been a great test, but I was more focused on being jealous of the number of untracked runs she got in. Because of a number of issues, I will likely not get away to the slopes until late Feb. I can say that I am as happy with the CC2's performance in all other conditions as with any previous tire I have owned. In the meantime, @snwbrdr posted this impression in the 3PMSF thread and might care to chime in:

Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

Heh..our Quebec friends. :) To be fair, Montreal has some geography that we don't. Toronto is fairly flat..with a few exceptions. Montreal has a bit more topographical challenges. Aussi Ville de Quebec.. Here's a beauty day in Toronto..half these cars have all-season tires... I love red...

www.skitalk.com

 

[nay]

@cosmoliu any update to your satisfaction with these tires? I'm debating between them and the Blizzaks. I love the idea of not having to swap out my tires and just keeping the CC2s on year round but just not sure. Would love some feedback.

The Falken AT Trail for a crossover continues to kill it - we had snow blowing across the top of Monarch Pass and it was wet and soapy and there was some dude trying to pass me around those tight switchbacks at the top, so I dropped him whipping around those last bits at 45-50 mph.

ms. nay asks “how are the tires doing”.

I say: “killing it. Again”

she says: “I keep expecting to feel some slip, but there’s nothing”

me: “I know”

The rest of the time it’s this super quiet highway tire that’s increased fuel economy and yet also feels properly rugged on our crappy roads.

I took my daughter’s turbo Forrester out in the last storm where it got hard packed over icy spots. I stopped on a steep hill, spooled up the turbo until the tires finally spun, and then slammed on the brakes. Zero drama of any kind.


I’m not sure what else a tire is supposed to do.

 

[coskigirl]

The Falken AT Trail for a crossover continues to kill it - we had snow blowing across the top of Monarch Pass and it was wet and soapy and there was some dude trying to pass me around those tight switchbacks at the top, so I dropped him whipping around those last bits at 45-50 mph.

ms. nay asks “how are the tires doing”.

I say: “killing it. Again”

she says: “I keep expecting to feel some slip, but there’s nothing”

me: “I know”

The rest of the time it’s this super quiet highway tire that’s increased fuel economy and yet also feels properly rugged on our crappy roads.

I took my daughter’s turbo Forrester out in the last storm where it got hard packed over icy spots. I stopped on a steep hill, spooled up the turbo until the tires finally spun, and then slammed on the brakes. Zero drama of any kind.


I’m not sure what else a tire is supposed to do.

They don’t make it for my tire size. Maybe if I changed wheel/tire size but that’s beyond my understanding and not something I’m into figuring out right now.

 

[cantunamunch]

They don’t make it for my tire size. Maybe if I changed wheel/tire size but that’s beyond my understanding and not something I’m into figuring out right now.

Let your tire service do it.

I made a spreadsheet for the neighbor and the tire service she wound up using was one of the two that were able to duplicate the available options in 45 mins or less.

That's the easy part. Dealing with lowballers on your old rim set is harder.

 

[scott43]

That's the easy part. Dealing with lowballers on your old rim set is harder.

Kjiji-hell....

 

[James]

You could try the Toyo Open Country 3

Is there much difference between Falken A/T Trail an A/T 3W ?

 

[cosmoliu]

The Falken AT Trail for a crossover continues to kill it - we had snow blowing across the top of Monarch Pass and it was wet and soapy and there was some dude trying to pass me around those tight switchbacks at the top, so I dropped him whipping around those last bits at 45-50 mph.

ms. nay asks “how are the tires doing”.

I say: “killing it. Again”

she says: “I keep expecting to feel some slip, but there’s nothing”

me: “I know”

The rest of the time it’s this super quiet highway tire that’s increased fuel economy and yet also feels properly rugged on our crappy roads.

I took my daughter’s turbo Forrester out in the last storm where it got hard packed over icy spots. I stopped on a steep hill, spooled up the turbo until the tires finally spun, and then slammed on the brakes. Zero drama of any kind.


I’m not sure what else a tire is supposed to do.

So, I have a decision coming up soon. My CC2s are close enough to 5/32" that I will likely need to replace them before embarking on a CO and UT road trip this coming March. I have not had the CC2s in actual snow deep enough to differentiate their performance from any other tires I've driven. And nay's real world updates on the Falkens greatly exceed any input here on the CC2s. They both are available in the same size which is slightly (5%) alternate to my oem size, and same load rating. And they are virtually the same price. What to do? What to do?

 

[James]

So, I have a decision coming up soon. My CC2s are close enough to 5/32" that I will likely need to replace them before embarking on a CO and UT road trip this coming March. I have not had the CC2s in actual snow deep enough to differentiate their performance from any other tires I've driven. And nay's real world updates on the Falkens greatly exceed any input here on the CC2s. They both are available in the same size which is slightly (5%) alternate to my oem size, and they are virtually the same price. What to do? What to do?

How many miles? Didn’t you just get them last spring?

 

[cosmoliu]

Great memory, James. About 11K. My 125 mi. Monday morning/Friday evening commute is on a very curvy route, which has a big fun factor. So I've never gotten more than about 15-16K out of a set of tires, regardless of treadwear rating, in the last 30+ years. And where ski season falls matters in the calculus- I can very happily wear the tires down to the wear bars if that occurs in the summer (remember- CA sees no rain between May-October). But I can't pull that same trick going into winter. I have three choices for the commute, and one has gone from 2 lanes to 4 lanes over the years (Hwy 46, where James Dean met his demise). 46 is way less curvy, which would increase my miles/tire set considerably. I've been thinking about switching for that reason, and the relatively sedate ride better reflects my current age.

Edit: I'd be willing to drive the CC2s to Mammoth with 5/32" tread as I know what I'll encounter, even if there is a major dump. However, an extended road trip (thanks to COVID) to CO and UT, particularly up SR210 in LCC, demands more nuanced consideration.

 

[raytseng]

So, I have a decision coming up soon. My CC2s are close enough to 5/32" that I will likely need to replace them before embarking on a CO and UT road trip this coming March. I have not had the CC2s in actual snow deep enough to differentiate their performance from any other tires I've driven. And nay's real world updates on the Falkens greatly exceed any input here on the CC2s. They both are available in the same size which is slightly (5%) alternate to my oem size, and same load rating. And they are virtually the same price. What to do? What to do?

Ha, with your mileage, even if you try something new; you won't be stuck with it for too long.

I think if you know you're ONLY going to be on paved or at most smooth gravel; go cc2. If you know you may do some trails do the A/T w.
It seems you're doing heavy miles of spirited driving in summer road conditions on your curvy commute, I think this biases you towards CC2 over the A/T.

 

[tball]

The only thing an A/T tire will do better than the CC2 is go off-road.

What's the point of putting A/T tires on a car-based SUV other than looking cool?

 

[cosmoliu]

I went back over Tire Rack reviews of the two tires and came to the ^^^ same conclusion. A/T class vs Grand Touring class. Subaru vibe vs BMW/Audi vibe. Count me in the latter group.

 

[raytseng]

Indeed, the scenario of a regular unibody crossover "offroading" is going to mean forest or park roads that might be rutted or otherwise "ungroomed". Even then the definition of "performance" is less about traction; and more about puncture/damage protection. In this scenario, the A/T tire would give that extra piece of mind, however that extra protection is just dead unsprung weight on pavement.

 

[nay]

The only thing an A/T tire will do better than the CC2 is go off-road.

What's the point of putting A/T tires on a car-based SUV other than looking cool?

The Falken is designed specifically for crossovers and that’s the platform Falken used as they tested it through the design process. They are calling it “AT”, but it isn’t - the classic “5 bar” design of a highway tire is still largely intact here. It does have other design elements that make it a crossover tire.

There is more sturdiness to the sidewall and there is more heat dissipation technology that goes into the tread to shoulder area in this type of tire, in part because they are designed to be able to run aired down without blowing out due to heat generation, which is literally the reason we know have TPMS technology on all vehicles.

If I was wearing out tires in 15K on a somewhat heavier crossover, this is exactly what I would be looking for. Excess tire wear is going to occur at the shoulder area when the tire isn’t holding up like it should. Heat is the enemy, always.

So what you’ve already learned is the CC2 isn’t up to the task because it wore out severely prematurely.

 

[cosmoliu]

Heat is the enemy, always.

So what you’ve already learned is the CC2 isn’t up to the task because it wore out severely prematurely.

Many of my July/August Friday afternoon commutes start with air temps of 95-105 deg. Though I wouldn't say that the CC2s have fared any worse than other tires I've owned.

 

[nay]

Many of my July/August Friday afternoon commutes start with air temps of 95-105 deg. Though I wouldn't say that the CC2s have fared any worse than other tires I've owned.

Yea, that’s tough. The reasoning behind a tire that is designed for better shoulder block area heat dissipation could serve you well.

It‘s hard to say fully yet. I have 5K on my AT trail on the 4,600 lb Ascent and that tire has completely transformed that crossover from a boat to a vehicle that feels rugged without losing any refinement, and fuel economy went up.

It’s so much so that I just ordered the Eibach coil springs that Eibach designed to work with the stock dampers at about a 10% spring rate increase. This puts 1.9” of lift up front and 1.4” out back (leveling it) and reports from other owners are that handling is way improved. I’m not after any lift, but it does need more suspension firmness.

We’re getting tires that are made specifically for crossovers, which is really good given the popularity of this class. Continental is a car tire company. Falken (Sumitomo Rubber out of Japan) has demonstrated enormous success in their truck tire market balancing performance and longevity. Between the two, I’d be looking hard at Falken.

The AT Trail is a completely modern tire with a 65,000 treadlife warranty. I think you’d do really well there, so far it’s demonstrating enormous traction in winter driving and is exceptionally good on rough highways and in touring.

 

[DanoT]

Last winter I bought Falken Rubitrek tires for my truck camper, LT235/85/16, load range E, recommended by my mechanic shop that recently became a Falken dealer. These 3PMSF winter tires are less aggresive than the Falken Wildpeak and as such are a little more highway orintated than off road but they are AT that I leave on all year.

I paid $900CAD, mounted, balanced, installed; a very competitive price.

 

[Ogg]

Yea, that’s tough. The reasoning behind a tire that is designed for better shoulder block area heat dissipation could serve you well.

It‘s hard to say fully yet. I have 5K on my AT trail on the 4,600 lb Ascent and that tire has completely transformed that crossover from a boat to a vehicle that feels rugged without losing any refinement, and fuel economy went up.

It’s so much so that I just ordered the Eibach coil springs that Eibach designed to work with the stock dampers at about a 10% spring rate increase. This puts 1.9” of lift up front and 1.4” out back (leveling it) and reports from other owners are that handling is way improved. I’m not after any lift, but it does need more suspension firmness.

We’re getting tires that are made specifically for crossovers, which is really good given the popularity of this class. Continental is a car tire company. Falken (Sumitomo Rubber out of Japan) has demonstrated enormous success in their truck tire market balancing performance and longevity. Between the two, I’d be looking hard at Falken.

The AT Trail is a completely modern tire with a 65,000 treadlife warranty. I think you’d do really well there, so far it’s demonstrating enormous traction in winter driving and is exceptionally good on rough highways and in touring.

This winter will most likely be the last that I switch wheels/tires on on my wife's Crosstrek. Her summer tires are pretty much done but her snows look almost new because they've only been run for 3-4 months each year and she tends to avoid driving in the winter as much as possible. I figure we can probably recoup at least half the cost of a set of AT trails selling her snows and extra wheels.

 

[cosmoliu]

Thanks, @nay . I may very well try them out. They are about 3# heavier than the CC2s, so there is that unsprung weight thing. I'm not at all interested in jiggering with the suspension. But like @raytseng said, if they don't agree with me, I won't be stuck with them for long.

 

[Alexzn]

Some tire notes from the recent Tahoe storm. An AWD sedan with Blizzaks is a beast. A set of Pirelli performance winter tires on an AWD SUV is surprisingly capable, definitely not as good as Bllizzaks or X-Ice, but entirely adequate and does much better for dry and wet highway driving. As someone who pushed and pushed a Subaru Outback with stock all-seasons up our snowy street and watched and watched as that Subaru kept spinning the wheels. Even when we managed to get it some momentum, it fishtailed all the way up like a drunk. I will never drive all seasons in winter in Tahoe. There is no substitute for a proper winter tire (and, yes, AWD is not that substitute).