If you don't want it to get overrun, don't ski there. Anyone who is complaining about crowding is also skiing there and is part of the crowding. This isn't hard to understand.
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Northern Rockies/Alberta IKON Pass arrives in Idaho With the Addition of Schweitzer for Winter 2021-2022
- Thread starter Tricia
- Start date
The issue is in what's considered as something good by some may not have the same effect for others. Asking for respect and understanding of that is all that's asked. Frankly, I ride chairs quite often with people visiting from somewhere else and am always intrigued in asking what brought them here. It really doesn't bother me but my fear is an overwhelming load of people, long(er) lift-lines, that kind of thing.
I guess the upside to the Ikon pass is that the number of days are limited. It's not an unlimited pass unless a person buys Schweitzer's Voyager Pass that's an unlimited Schweitzer season pass with an Ikon Base Pass added to it. Outside of that, 7 days is the maximum use or 5 days with some blackout dates with the Base Pass. In that regard, it's not like Crystal or other Alterra properties. Tom Chasse says he expects 5-10% more skier days, which is acceptable. That's provided they do something to expand parking (in the works), eating areas (in the works) and with the early morning loading at the bottom of Musical Chairs (beginner hill) which is supposed to be done within the next couple of years. Those are the three weakest points to this, top of mind. We just have some crux points that need to be managed and the added traffic will dissipate quickly enough that it won't be that noticeable. Like I said, we'll see how this goes.
Why is it that you come off as the last guy getting into an already crowded elevator then claiming someone else should get out if they don't like it. I was already to be nice and you come back with this?
No dog in this fight, but do care.
@Willy and the few others like him are part of the original DNA of a ski area. They have helped to shape it, to make it the place you want to go to. They do not feel entitled but feel part of their ski area. Willy started skiing Schweitzer when few knew where it was and helped grow it (and the entire Inland NW) into somewhere others want to go to.
We are all lucky these folks are out there in the skiing world to help give our ski areas, and our sport, soul.
@Willy sincerely hope that this transition goes well for you, your friends, and your mountain.
@Willy and the few others like him are part of the original DNA of a ski area. They have helped to shape it, to make it the place you want to go to. They do not feel entitled but feel part of their ski area. Willy started skiing Schweitzer when few knew where it was and helped grow it (and the entire Inland NW) into somewhere others want to go to.
We are all lucky these folks are out there in the skiing world to help give our ski areas, and our sport, soul.
@Willy sincerely hope that this transition goes well for you, your friends, and your mountain.
I’m sorry to wade into this, and no disrespect to the locals but unless you are part owner of the actual ski area, you are not a stakeholder in how the place is run. It is a business. If the business wants to expand their revenue streams by offering a new pass product that’s their sole decision, not anyone else’s no matter how long you’ve lived there. As for the neighborhood comment, your “neighborhood” is at a ski resort, a place where many people come and go. I was fortunate to visit Schweitzer and loved it. I paid my airport/rental/lodging tourism taxes, and spent money on food, drink and the like to support the local economy and the jobs that come with it. And I will be coming back to do it again – my visiting is not arrogance or trampling on my part, it’s called a ski vacation.
Yeah. That was harsh. Sorry about that. And no I'm not getting into a crowded elevator. I'll take the stairs!
Yes. No one is saying go trash the place. My point is that just because someone lives next to a ski mountain doesn't make the ski mountain theirs. You buy a pass to go ski and you get access to the the ski mountain. You don't own it. You don't get to decided who comes and who goes. You are a paying customer just like anyone else. Anyways, I've said enough on this entire topic. I hope to enjoy skiing in Idaho sometime next year. I won't ruin the mountain for any "locals" who think it's their mountain because of proximity. I'll be respectful as I always am.
That’s true. Unfortunately Alterra sells hundreds of thousands of Ikon passes a year amounting to millions of skier days lurking out there ready to submerge any ski area unfortunate enough to be a partner. Even at 5 or 7 days per pass, if enough gapers show up to your resort you’re screwed, just like Snowbird, Alta, Jackson Hole, Deer Valley. Ikon has rendered these almost unskiable at peak periods and those peaks seem to comprise most of the season!
Given that Schweitzer is a bit off the beaten track it might escape these ravages. I really hope so for your sake.
Correction; I'm not a shareholder but, as a customer and property owner, I'm certainly a stakeholder. You're right in not having a decision-making position but as a customer, I SHOULD have at least a voice that feeds into the decision making. That's how good business decisions are made; listen to your customer. With that said, I don't mind having more people come to the mountain but the mountain has to be geared to handle the added traffic. Like I said, we'll see how Schweitzer responds to the added load. Could be that it's not a big deal if they fix the crux points that are currently plagued.
As a bit of background, my first trip to Schweitzer was in 1968 as a kid but we didn't make it our home mountain until 1990. I skied there a couple, three times prior to that but, as a home mountain, not until then. We've seen lots of investment and improvement over the years, all really positive in my opinion. Skier days have increased over time and I'm fine with that, happy for the mountain, and want them to make money. That's a given. But I've also experienced a time at another local mountain that implemented a "Cheap Tickets Are Us" program in the 1980's that created pure havoc on the hill, to the point that we left and went to Schweitzer. I have a fear of the same thing happening here. I've also been part of the hype to build up Schweitzer. We did a lot of TV video work that was ultimately geared toward promoting the area. I would like to think we were somewhat successful in that so, no, I'm not NIMBY. I would just like visitors to respect our area just as I respect other people's home mountains when I visit them. And I'd like to think Schweitzer is going to manage the added days in a manner that doesn't destroy the vibe.
With that said, however, I know Tom and believe he's an excellent manager and that he's taking the right steps to mitigate impact but, it's like I'm from Missouri. I need to be shown that we can handle this. I have my concerns but I stated from the beginning, we'll see. I'm certainly not giving up hope on their continued success but my Spidey senses are tingling, albeit from anecdotal evidence of other places that have gotten hammered by the crowds.
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That's incredibly dependent on your definition of a "good business decision". If a good business decision is defined as one that makes more money, then I'd argue that your statement is not true. Satisfied, happy customers don't always go hand in hand with higher profits. It would be lovely if that were the case.
I'm really tempted to throw out a 'Greed is Good" meme but, won't...
Yes, I understand that the primary motive for investment and being in business is to provide a return to investors and that any increase in return is generally considered good. However, when you forsake your customers and/or employees in the interest of enhancing your return, there are longer term impacts that can ultimately harm the return. I think you have to consider all stakeholders in decisions of this nature including the investors, customers, employees, local community, associated expenses related to growth, and other elements related to unrelenting growth.
Sure, the temptation for enhanced immediate returns is there. I get it. I have a business background and have worked for personal enhancement of returns in my former business but also have always felt that the longer term elements of those decisions need to weigh the outcomes to ALL stakeholders. In this case, it remains to be seen but if things go wildly out of control and we see things like demonstrated in the pictures I posted above, you've forsaken your past customers, employees, and the community in a wholesale exchange thereby throwing out your old customers, et al in exchange for a whole new set of transient customers. I don't personally feel that's a good risk but, I also haven't analyzed the numbers or other data that decisions like this would require for rationalization.
One potential that really is scary to me is that the owners are taking this partnership as a means to build top-line growth in an effort to better set the company as a sales target. Bigger, better numbers make it even more attractive for acquisition. While they're clearly stating that Schweitzer is and will remain independent, I only wish I had a nickel for every time that's been stated by CEO's shortly before the sale is announced. I know, through employee scuttlebutt that VMR has been expressing interest in them for a number of years. I really, really have a lot of trepidation over that possibility.
I am very curious to see how adding Schweitzer to the Ikon Pass affects visitation. One of my biggest questions is: where would Ikon Pass holders who ski at Schweitzer be located?
@Willy I just plugged the route from Seattle to Schweitzer into Google Maps, and it says the trip is a 6 hour drive, versus Crystal which is only a 1.5 hour drive. This makes me skeptical that many Seattleites will make the trek. Bachelor in Oregon is about the same driving distance, but seems to me (I am new to the PNW, so take this with a grain of salt) that there is a lot more hype about Bachelor than Schweitzer. In fact, it still feels like Schweitzer and 49° North are still relatively unknown, of course being on the Ikon Pass could change that for Schweitzer. Thus, I doubt that Seattle crowds are going to turn Schweitzer into Crystal East anytime soon
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My guess is that the primary people who will ski at Schweitzer with the Ikon Pass will be:
1) Locals, or people who live within an hour or two of Schweitzer, who now can get 5 days at Schweitzer and 5 days at Red for $729, plus access to tons of great fly-to destinations. These are not people who ski enough to justify a season pass, but ski enough that an Ikon Pass pays for itself. Not sure how large this pool would be, and if this pool of people would be cannibalizing sales of things like 3-packs and thus wouldn't represent a large net increase in users.
2) Destination skiers flying in to either ski exclusively at Schweitzer, or do road trips like others have mentioned that start in Spokane, drive to Schweitzer, and then go on to Red or Whitewater or other great ski areas. My guess is that this will be the largest net-new group of Ikon Pass skiers to Schweitzer. That said...there are a LOT of top class ski areas on the Ikon. Schweitzer is now in the company of Revelstoke, Aspen, Jackson Hole, Alta, Snowbird, Solitude, Brighton, Steamboat, Sunshine and Lake Louise, Mammoth, Squaw Valley. Don't get me wrong, I've heard great things about Schweitzer, but how many people are going to pass up the ski areas I listed to ski at Schweitzer instead? My hunch is that this group of skiers will be mainly net new skiers, but will not represent a huge increase in visitation.
Overall, I would guess that increased visitation due to Ikon will be modest unless something major happens, like Schweitzer blows up on social media for some reason. Instead, I would imagine that population growth in Spokane and the surrounding area will be a more major contributor over time
? Ahh, what do I know.
@Willy on a more personal note, I feel for you given your long history and relationship with the mountain. I hope that this deal does not ruin the place. It sounds like you guys have a reasonable owner, so I hope that if things go south you guys can back out of this deal in the future.
@Willy I just plugged the route from Seattle to Schweitzer into Google Maps, and it says the trip is a 6 hour drive, versus Crystal which is only a 1.5 hour drive. This makes me skeptical that many Seattleites will make the trek. Bachelor in Oregon is about the same driving distance, but seems to me (I am new to the PNW, so take this with a grain of salt) that there is a lot more hype about Bachelor than Schweitzer. In fact, it still feels like Schweitzer and 49° North are still relatively unknown, of course being on the Ikon Pass could change that for Schweitzer. Thus, I doubt that Seattle crowds are going to turn Schweitzer into Crystal East anytime soon
.My guess is that the primary people who will ski at Schweitzer with the Ikon Pass will be:
1) Locals, or people who live within an hour or two of Schweitzer, who now can get 5 days at Schweitzer and 5 days at Red for $729, plus access to tons of great fly-to destinations. These are not people who ski enough to justify a season pass, but ski enough that an Ikon Pass pays for itself. Not sure how large this pool would be, and if this pool of people would be cannibalizing sales of things like 3-packs and thus wouldn't represent a large net increase in users.
2) Destination skiers flying in to either ski exclusively at Schweitzer, or do road trips like others have mentioned that start in Spokane, drive to Schweitzer, and then go on to Red or Whitewater or other great ski areas. My guess is that this will be the largest net-new group of Ikon Pass skiers to Schweitzer. That said...there are a LOT of top class ski areas on the Ikon. Schweitzer is now in the company of Revelstoke, Aspen, Jackson Hole, Alta, Snowbird, Solitude, Brighton, Steamboat, Sunshine and Lake Louise, Mammoth, Squaw Valley. Don't get me wrong, I've heard great things about Schweitzer, but how many people are going to pass up the ski areas I listed to ski at Schweitzer instead? My hunch is that this group of skiers will be mainly net new skiers, but will not represent a huge increase in visitation.
Overall, I would guess that increased visitation due to Ikon will be modest unless something major happens, like Schweitzer blows up on social media for some reason. Instead, I would imagine that population growth in Spokane and the surrounding area will be a more major contributor over time
? Ahh, what do I know.@Willy on a more personal note, I feel for you given your long history and relationship with the mountain. I hope that this deal does not ruin the place. It sounds like you guys have a reasonable owner, so I hope that if things go south you guys can back out of this deal in the future.
^^ Actually, whenever I talk to someone that's just there visiting, it's generally someone who's in a group on an extended weekend from the Seattle area. I think the vast majority of our out-of-towners are Seattle, head and shoulders to all others combined. What we're also seeing, especially with WFH are people moving, even just temporarily from that same area. The Ikon pass also creates a pretty good road trip loop: Seattle to Schweitzer, Big Sky, JH, Alta and wherever else (don't remember all the properties) so as noted somewhere, Schweitzer makes for a pretty good first stop.
Provided Crystal and Stevens get back to somewhat normal situations, crowd-wise, the pressure from Seattle might subside. I don't know how this will ultimately play out but I've voiced my concerns and will leave it at that. For now...
Provided Crystal and Stevens get back to somewhat normal situations, crowd-wise, the pressure from Seattle might subside. I don't know how this will ultimately play out but I've voiced my concerns and will leave it at that. For now...
I think it’s true that Schweitzer won’t attract the same buzz as other marquee resorts on the Ikon Pass, I’m pretty sure Schwetizer will still be a little under the radar, and fewer people will plan their ski vacations there compared to say, Aspen, Jackson, SLC or Big Sky.
Nonetheless I have had as great an experience at Schweitzer as anywhere else; the amount of terrain and the quality of the infrastructure is as good as any other resort. My first trip to Schweitzer, we met a couple from Seattle that had been going almost exclusively to Schweitzer for about 15 years, after traveling pretty much everywhere else in North America. They decided the skiing was as good, it was more accessible for them, and a lot less crowded than any other destination they had been to. I’m still in the phase of traveling to other major destinations to see for myself, but I might arrive at the same conclusion.
Nonetheless I have had as great an experience at Schweitzer as anywhere else; the amount of terrain and the quality of the infrastructure is as good as any other resort. My first trip to Schweitzer, we met a couple from Seattle that had been going almost exclusively to Schweitzer for about 15 years, after traveling pretty much everywhere else in North America. They decided the skiing was as good, it was more accessible for them, and a lot less crowded than any other destination they had been to. I’m still in the phase of traveling to other major destinations to see for myself, but I might arrive at the same conclusion.
I’m pretty sure Schwetizer will still be a little under the radar - like Taos! - and fewer people will plan their ski vacations there compared to say, Aspen, Jackson, SLC or Big Sky (aka, the PugSki National Gathering rotation).
You saw what I did there.
FWIW, Schweitzer has been on my go-to list for a while, and the Ikon pass arrangement just pushed it up to the top of the stack.
Assuming flying is an option next season.
But I'm not exactly the "typical" skier - ~100 days a season with crowd avoidance a priority. I'm guessing Sweitzer will be fine. The overcrowded resorts were already overcrowded before the advent of the mega passes.
Assuming flying is an option next season.
But I'm not exactly the "typical" skier - ~100 days a season with crowd avoidance a priority. I'm guessing Sweitzer will be fine. The overcrowded resorts were already overcrowded before the advent of the mega passes.
If you go looking for doom and gloom from being added to the IKON pass, you'll probably find it.
Skied Schwieitzer in the late 80's, and am stoked to return. I have a good buddy from college who lives nearby, and this gives me an excuse to go visit him. He was a patroller at Silver Mtn for years, and I could never pry him away from there. I might revisit my old haunts in Spokane and Moscow as well, so this is a win-win for me.
Skied Schwieitzer in the late 80's, and am stoked to return. I have a good buddy from college who lives nearby, and this gives me an excuse to go visit him. He was a patroller at Silver Mtn for years, and I could never pry him away from there. I might revisit my old haunts in Spokane and Moscow as well, so this is a win-win for me.
It's the lack of empathy and understanding in statements like yours that locals find offensive.
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