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Jim Kenney

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In Part 1 of this series, my friend David Chaus took a stab at identifying and characterizing many of the most prominent independent ski areas in Western North America. I am going to try to do the same for Eastern North America, where there is traditionally a higher density of small, self-reliant mom-and-pop ski areas. Identifying Eastern indies is tougher than it sounds because the line between autonomy and cooperation is quite thin with all the amazing multiresort pass products and reciprocity agreements that have emerged in the last decade or two.

The spectacular rise of multiresort passes like Epic, Ikon, MCP (Mountain Collective Pass), and Peak makes us wonder, “Who the heck is still independent?” Some of these groupings, such as Epic/Vail Resorts, are united by common ownership; others are merely cooperating on passes to some degree. Ikon is a hybrid of owned and cooperating resorts. The Power Pass is a baby version of the aforementioned big guys with unlimited skiing at five smaller Southwestern ski areas and reciprocity at a bunch more. But consider Sugarbush, an altogether different beast. It is a truly fine independently owned (principal owner Win Smith) and operated Vermont ski area. However, for the purposes of this discussion, I'll categorize it in the multiresort pass group because in the scramble to compete, it participates in not one, but two such offerings, Ikon and MCP.

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Sugarbush, VT; photo by Jim Kenney
Determining “independence” gets even fuzzier due to the growing popularity of limited pass reciprocity. That is, many resorts sell a season pass that is primarily only for their area, but also participate in programs that add a few bonus reciprocal days that permit free skiing at other ski areas. Monarch in Colorado was one of the pioneers of this technique and still uses it to add competitive strength. The 2018-19 Monarch season pass includes the benefit of three days each at an astounding 36 ski areas! The Powder Alliance (19 ski areas, mostly in the West) and the Freedom Pass (14 ski areas, nine in the East) are two other well-organized variations on this theme. And just to make your head spin faster, these reciprocity arrangements are highly fluid and frequently expand or contract from one off-season to the next.

The further you dig into the independence thing, the more there is to grapple with (or is that graupel with?). There are a number of under-the-radar unions of ski areas that casual industry observers may not know about. In the East this would include ski area teamings such as Greek Peak-Toggenburg, Jiminy Peak-Cranmore-Bromley, the NY State-owned trio of Belleayre, Gore, and Whiteface, and Snow Time Inc. (Liberty, Whitetail, Roundtop in Pennsylvania). Oops, scratch the Snow Time group, because it was just bought by Peak Resorts. Do you consider these to be groups or independents? Are their season passes fully reciprocal? I’m only scratching the surface of various forms of ski resort linkage, and then there are organizations such as the Mountain Rider’s Alliance (MRA). MRA is an advisory group without pass reciprocity that seeks to unite small, independent ski areas to tackle sustainability, environmental, and operational issues.

Before I begin a review of some of the most notable Eastern indies, I probably should list my understanding of Eastern ski areas that are not independents, at least in the sense that they participate in one or more of the most popular national/international multiresort pass products.
  • Ikon: Killington, Sunday River, Sugarloaf, Mont Tremblant, Stratton, Snowshoe, Loon, Blue Mountain Ontario, Sugarbush
  • Epic: Stowe, Okemo, Mount Sunapee, Mont-Sainte-Anne, Stoneham
  • MCP: Sugarbush
  • Peak: Mount Snow, Wildcat, Attitash, Crotched Mountain, Hunter Mountain, Big Boulder, Jack Frost, and, as of September 2018, Liberty, Whitetail, and Roundtop
  • Freedom: Black Mountain (NH), Bolton Valley, Dartmouth Skiway, Granite Gorge, Lost Valley, Magic Mountain, McIntyre, Plattekill, and Whaleback

These products all offer significant forms of full or partial season pass reciprocity. The MCP offers only two or three free reciprocal days at member areas, but unlimited half-price days.

With that gelatinous definition of the term “independent” and excluding the preceding list of major multiresort pass participants, here is my state-by-state (or province) breakdown of some of the more prominent and visit-worthy independent ski areas in Eastern North America. The ski areas I have chosen to discuss have qualities worthy of a visit from afar such as considerable size, unique character, or favorable reputations. I have visited and photographed a good percentage of them. I am going to break my rule and mention a few resorts participating in the Freedom Pass, but there are many more smaller indies in the East that I won't address. Almost all indies share the qualities of affordability, modest crowds, and family-friendliness.

Vermont

The state of Vermont has a terrific array of independent ski areas. Mad River Glen's 2,037-ft vertical drop, 45 trails, and 800 acres of boundary-to-boundary off-piste includes some of the greatest tree skiing in the US. Gnarly MRG, founded in 1948, is one of the cathedrals of our sport. Ride the single chair, embrace the natural snow surfaces, and be sure to check out a base lodge that is retro to the max. Smugglers' Notch (2,610 ft vertical, 78 trails) is renowned as a great family hill with an extensive and affordable village of condos at its base. But it also has good terrain variety including some very challenging runs and tree skiing off the ancient Madonna 1 double chair. I skied there back around 1990 and vividly remember skiing over a frozen waterfall/cascade. Geographically, Smuggs is very close to Stowe. You have to wonder if Vail Resorts has an interest in acquiring it and linking it with ski lifts to Stowe? I have not skied Middlebury Snow Bowl (1,000 ft vertical, 17 trails, six glades), but I understand it can be a fine escape from more crowded mountains and has enough steeps and glades to entertain rambunctious students from nearby Middlebury College.

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Mad River Glen, VT celebrated 70 years of independent ownership in 2018; photo by Jim Kenney
Bolton Valley (1,704 ft vertical, 71 trails) and Magic Mountain (1,500 ft vertical, 39 trails, 11 glade runs) are part of the Freedom Pass, but I'm going to mention them anyway because they are soulfully independent in all other ways and need the love. Bolton has slopeside lodging and is known for affordable family skiing. It is 25 mi east of Burlington and gets good northern Vermont snow for some fun tree skiing. Magic Mountain is in Southern Vermont near Stratton and Bromley. I skied it for two days in the late 1980s. The operation at Magic has faced fiscal challenges over the years, to say the least, but it seems to have stabilized with new ownership, and when the snow comes it draws a cult of avid tree skiers. Suicide Six (650 ft vertical, 23 trails) is a small ski area in central Vermont with heart and a lot of history. It was the site of the first rope tow in the Eastern US in 1934. These days it is operated as a sort of winter amenity by the nearby and upscale Woodstock Inn. Back in the day, a run straight down the face of this hill was considered suicidal. It's still a pretty good bump workout 80+ years later!

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Suicide Six, VT; photo by Jim Kenney
New Hampshire

There is something about the state of New Hampshire that really appeals to me. It's less developed than Vermont and the peaks are higher, crowned by the +6,000-ft Mt. Washington Massif. The views from the summit of Waterville Valley (2,020 ft vertical, 60 trails, five glades) convey this with a seemingly endless vista of pine forests. The ski area has good variety and offers a nice village with overnight lodging. Further north, Bretton Woods is one of the last larger New England mountains (1,500 ft vertical, 97 trails/glades) I have yet to ski, but it has successfully branded itself as a classy family mountain with fine intermediate terrain and introductory-level tree skiing. Nearby accommodations are highlighted by the historic 200-room Mt. Washington Hotel. Black Mountain, NH, is another eastern Freedom Pass participant that deserves mention. It is surprisingly challenging for a smaller mountain (1,100 ft vertical, 40 trails). It is very affordable and has throwback lifts and pretty views of the White Mountains. There was a corral filled with live horses at the base of the slopes when I visited back in 2010.

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Base area of Black Mountain, NH; photo by Jim Kenney
Located in the mid-state Lakes Region, Gunstock is a municipally owned ski area with a 1,400-ft vertical drop and 55 trails. I skied it on a snowy, low-visibility day in 1995 and missed most of the scenic setting near the shores of huge Lake Winnipesaukee (75,000 acres). It's a good place for groomer zoomers. I have not been to nearby Ragged Mountain (1,250 ft vertical, 57 trails), but I understand it has an excellent lift infrastructure including a six pack and high-speed quad that enable guests to rack up ski mileage. It's also known for good tree skiing when Mother Nature cooperates. I have not visited Pats Peak (770 vertical, 27 trails) in southern New Hampshire either, but its location is convenient (35 min to Manchester) for a quick ski session.

Maine

Mt Abram is a fine smaller mountain with a 1,150-ft vertical drop and 51 trails. It has a crazy, anachronistic trail name theme based on the 1960s Rocky and Bullwinklecartoon show. The main double chair is called the Wayback Machine, and there are some good steeps sprinkled across the mountain including a small rock band on the black diamond Rocky's Run. The area sustained a devastating fire that wiped out the base lodge in 2011, but they have been using an adequate replacement structure since then. Crowds at this mountain are generally light all season. It is located about a dozen miles from the much larger Sunday River Ski area and provides a very homey contrast. Mt Abram is part of the MRA group.

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Mt Abram, ME; photo by Jim Kenney
Black Mountain of Maine (not to be confused with Black Mountain, NH) is located about 45 mi from the town of Gorham, just north of Wildcat ski area (part of Peak Resorts); the two mountains could easily be combined on a visit to the Mt Washington region. I have never skied at Black Mountain of Maine, but I've always heard good things about its advanced terrain (1,380 ft vertical, 50 trails and glades). I haven't been to Shawnee Peak, either, but it has a 1,300 ft vertical and 44 trails. Shawnee is 45 mi from Portland with good affordability and extensive night skiing.

New York

Plattekill and Windham are two interesting and strongly contrasting ski areas near each other in the Catskill Mountains of New York. Old-school Plattekill has 1,100 ft vertical and 38 trails. It participates in the Freedom Pass, but is endearingly noncomformist in all other ways. Plattekill has challenging bump runs and tons of tree skiing. Windham is groomer-centric and more upscale, but very competently managed. It has 1,600 ft vertical and 54 family-friendly trails. The foremost indie ski area in western New York is Holiday Valley (750 ft vertical, 53 trails). Holiday Valley features a rarity for Eastern ski areas south of New England, a genuine little ski town right at the base of the slopes in the form of Ellicottville.

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Inside the rustic base lodge at Plattekill, NY; photo by Jim Kenney

Massachusetts

Two of the notable independent ski areas in Massachusetts are Wachusett Mountain and Berkshire East (which recently acquired Catamount in New York). They can be accessed via Rt 2 about 50 and 100 mi west of Boston, respectively. Set in a beautiful rural landscape dappled with blue ponds and evergreen forests, Wachusett (1,000 ft vertical and 26 trails) is a popular and well-run mountain for day-tripping Bostonians. I closed out my 2006 season there on a pretty spring day. I haven't had the pleasure of skiing B-East, but the 1,180 vertical ft and 45 trails include mogul runs and steep tree skiing known to entice skilled snow riders.

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Wachusett Mountain, MA; photo by Jim Kenney
Connecticut

I have not been to Ski Sundown (625 ft vertical and 16 trails), but it's known for the steepest, longest bump run in Southern New England. They have been holding mogul contests on the black diamond Gunbarrel trail for decades. Located in the Hartford exurbs, this place is the definition of a feeder hill.

Pennsylvania

Seven Springs in Western Pennsylvania is a venerable (1935) and popular resort that attracts day-tripping guests from nearby Pittsburgh and weekenders from Washington and Baltimore. What it lacks in vertical (750 ft), it makes up with horizontal (33 trails and 10 lifts). Seven Springs has possibly the best terrain park scene in the mid-Atlantic, and the slopeside Foggy Goggle bar is a fantastic place to catch a Steelers game. Stretching the definition of independent, the owner of Seven Springs also controls two other nearby small ski areas, Hidden Valley and Laurel Mountain. Blue Knob (1,070 ft vertical, 34 trails) is about 70 mi northeast of Seven Springs. It was the first place I ever skied, in 1967, and will always hold a special place in my heart. The icy moguls of Extrovert make it a true double black diamond, and when Mother Nature brings the white stuff, Blue Knob's tree skiing is among the best this side of New England. Elk Mountain (1,000 ft vertical, 27 trails) is in northeastern Pennsylvania about 30 mi from Scranton. I haven't been there, but I've heard it has good snow, sustained steeps, and no crowds.

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Extrovert trail at Blue Knob, PA; photo by Jim Kenney
Virginia

There are actually four ski areas in Virginia, but the two most notable independent operations are Wintergreen (1,000 ft vertical, 26 trails) and Massanutten (1,110 ft vertical, 14 trails) located about 50 mi apart in the central-western part of the state. Both ski areas are well run with tremendous snowmaking systems. They draw big weekend crowds and have a lot of accommodations close to the slopes. Wintergreen has more diverse terrain, but the "experts only" quad chair at Massanutten serves a pair of nice runs and is rarely crowded.

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Massanutten, VA, photo by Jim Kenney

West Virginia

The West Virginia independent ski area where I've had great fun over the years is Timberline (1000' vertical, 37 trails). It is located in Canaan Valley at a relatively high and snowy base elevation of 3268'. Timberline usually features at least one or two bump runs among a nice selection of groomed trails and is one of the best bets in the mid-Atlantic for extensive tree skiing. Owing to the high elevation, the tree skiing is covered and reliably open for access a month or more each season. You'll see a lot of strong telemark skiers, they migrate over from the nearby Whitegrass Nordic Ski operation. Like many indies, Timberline appears to struggle financially at times, but when the snow is good it's definitely worth a visit.


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Cherry Bowl Glades at Timberline, WV, photo by Jim Kenney


North Carolina


This is a part of Eastern US ski country I have never visited in winter. The mountains are taller here than any place else in the Eastern US. The two ski areas in the state that draw the most guests are Beech Mountain (830 ft vertical, 17 trails) and Sugar Mountain (1,200 ft vertical, 21 trails). The summit elevations of Beech and Sugar are 5,500 and 5,300 ft, respectively.

Quebec

My knowledge base of ski areas in Quebec is limited to two very good ones, Mont-Sainte-Anne (MSA) and Le Massif. MSA is one of the six ski areas owned by the Resorts of the Canadian Rockies and joined the Epic Pass family in early 2018. But I believe Le Massif (2,526 ft vertical, 52 trails) qualifies as an independent. Both of these ski areas have dramatic settings next to the St. Lawrence River, but Le Massif stands out in my memories as especially beautiful and pristine. At Le Massif, you park and start skiing from the summit and the trails suddenly dip away to reveal a mind blowing mountain-maritime vista unlike anything I’ve skied in my life. With an almost fjord-like geography, Le Massif will turn the most jaded ski traveler into a scenery gaper. One day during our 2008 visit, my wife and I spied chunks of ice the size of 18-wheelers laying stranded in the mudflats along the edge of the St Lawrence River just beyond the base of the lifts.

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Le Massif, Quebec; photo by Jim Kenney
Conclusion

Many casual observers might surmise that Western North America has been the focus of the great multiresort ski pass wars, but the truth is Eastern North America has gone through tremendous realignments as well. These changes are so dynamic and some resort linkages are so labyrinthian that I'm sure I'll need help correcting or updating this article the moment it is published.

But here's the point: how one defines an independent ski area is not nearly as important as making sure you don’t miss out on the unmistakable and authentic brand of skiing/riding offered by these mountains. You can find indies in every corner of the continent -- but maybe not forever! It's been very hard for me to accept that Saddleback, ME, one of the most beautiful independent ski areas in the East, remains on the list of lost ski areas. On your way to bagging a bunch of Epic resorts or Ikon-ic mountains, I urge you to occasionally take the road less traveled. It's hard to imagine a healthy ski industry without the numerous independent feeder hills we now enjoy.

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Bring back Saddleback, ME; photo by Jim Kenney
The indie experience usually starts with a free parking spot close to the lifts. Enjoy the scenery, hopefully unspoiled by the overzealous slopeside development often found at many megaresorts. Take a run with a few rocks and weeds showing through the thin cover. It will ski more like a country road on Sunday than an Interstate at rush hour. This quote is from general manager Peter Mackey, who recently retired after 40 years of dedicated service at Middlebury Snow Bowl, and nicely sums up the essence of many independent ski areas: "We have no bar, no night skiing, no housing. We’re just a family-friendly ski area that hosts high-quality racing events and tries to remain affordable to the local community, in the hopes that they can enjoy this lifelong sport.”

Click here for Part 1 (West).
 

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Carolinacub

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I'm sure you're going to hear a bunch of comments saying "hey you didn't mention x".
Let me be the first:huh:.
North Carolina really only has 5 resorts where there is legitimate skiing. As you say Beech and Sugar get the most visitors and are probably the two most geared to the out of town multi day destination skier. Appalachian Ski Mountain is near Boone NC and caters to the young college crowd from nearby App State University. Lots of snowboard activities and three dedicated parks. Cataloochee Mountain near Cherokee and Maggie Valley cater to the Atlanta crowd and a fair amount of the Asheville folks, They probably have the best snowmaking in the state and have been sinking lots of profits back into infrastructure for a number of years now. Wolf Ridge is the basic mom and pop of the bunch. Great terrain for the south but very very old school. No alkeehawl and old slow lifts.
I'll admit I'm biased because I patrol at Wolf but I've skied at all of them on a somewhat regular basis and they all have distinct personalities.

Sugar: I've always felt like I was just another customer to them. Not much soul to the place. (other than when the adaptive program is going on).
Beech; I love Beech, it's much more of a locals feel mountain and the staff is great. They just got some new lifts and Gunthers is a blast
App: College kids, snowboards and alcohol....need I say more
Cat; A little to structured for me. The mountain is OK and they have a good local race program. Personally I get bored there quickly
Wolf: As I said I'm biased but I'll try to be dispassionate. mom and pop operation that really needs a facelift. Chairs are slow and the food is so so. Most of the lodge and lift staff have been around for years or is family to the owner. Overall ok but the bottom half of the mountain is like I85 at rush hour on weekends.
 

David Chaus

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Great article, Jim! Love the personal memories and little details.
 

dbostedo

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Of course there are 100 other little places that don't get a mention... but another couple of independents that folks tend to take trips to are Wisp, on Deep Creek Lake in Western Maryland... and Canaan Valley (and nearby Timberline) in central West Virginia.

I've actually never skied Wisp, despite living within 4 hours of it my entire life... but it seems popular with folks from DC and Pittsburgh, and a lot of people have their ski homes (or summer get-away homes) there.

Canaan Valley I've skied several times, and Timberline just one weekend... both of them are in the Canaan Valley itself, which is a beautiful part of the state, and tends to get a good amount of snow. Canaan got an updated hotel a few years ago, and has a nice variety of slopes and little glades, though is pretty short at 850 feet of vertical. Timberline is a nice older resort with old, slow lifts, but is known for good terrain including a god glades when the snow is right.

I've had a ton of fun at both!
 

4aprice

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Nice job Jim. Did just a quick scan this morning but just a couple of comments.

One of those grey areas (State run) but I guess Cannon Mt being run by NH doesn't count. You have Blue Knob which has connections to Pa but none of the NYS areas. Like I said kind of a grey area.

Didn't see Jay Peak or Burke mentioned. They are in limbo and up for sale but for the time being they are independent (even though joined in ownership). Bromley ?

You mentioned Middlebury in Vermont but no Dartmouth Skiways in NH. Whaleback and the refurbished Tenney Mt deserve mention. Cranmore in North Conway too.

Jiminy Peak, Butternut and Catamount in Mass. West Mountain in New York. Camelback, Shawnee and Blue in PA (I guess you throw in Mountain Creek in NJ in for good measure)

While I agree that the Peak Resort areas deserve their own column like Ikon and Epic, Freedom Pass area are a different beast and independent in my opinion. Same for some of the smaller teams (ie Berkshire East and Catamount etc).

Overall a good job and fun read.Thanks Jim.
 
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Jim Kenney

Jim Kenney

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Of course there are 100 other little places that don't get a mention... but another couple of independents that folks tend to take trips to are Wisp, on Deep Creek Lake in Western Maryland... and Canaan Valley (and nearby Timberline) in central West Virginia.

I've actually never skied Wisp, despite living within 4 hours of it my entire life... but it seems popular with folks from DC and Pittsburgh, and a lot of people have their ski homes (or summer get-away homes) there.

Canaan Valley I've skied several times, and Timberline just one weekend... both of them are in the Canaan Valley itself, which is a beautiful part of the state, and tends to get a good amount of snow. Canaan got an updated hotel a few years ago, and has a nice variety of slopes and little glades, though is pretty short at 850 feet of vertical. Timberline is a nice older resort with old, slow lifts, but is known for good terrain including a god glades when the snow is right.

I've had a ton of fun at both!

WV/Timberline was an omission and I just added comments about it. Fun place!

Carolinacub, Wolf sounds like a neat place. Ski on!

Thanks to all for the feedback.
 

DanoT

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Quebec's Eastern Townships have some small and I think independently owned resorts, southeast of Montreal, near Vermont:
Owl's Head
Bromont
Mont Orford
Mont Sutton
It was close to 50 years ago that I skied these areas so I have few distinct memories. Maybe @Jilly can provide some details.
 

Philpug

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The purpose here was also to identify the resorts/ski areas that could be targets of Epic and Alterra to add to their portfolios. Quite frankly, some of the smaller areas mentioned here, I never even heard of ;). These to pass giants are looking to add "feeder areas" to their collection. Families that might ski a Seven Springs or a Waterville Valley to entice them to come west to one of their bigger resorts.

I will add a few resorts from the east and, that were missed Camelback and some western NY areas) and if someone wants add, we can do a Part 3.

In the time that this series was first talked about, I believe there were two or three resorts absorbed by the big two. I expect in the next few months we will see some more too.
 

dbostedo

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^^^
Given the prevalence in their market, and the way the resort is set up (lots of lodging/housing, restaurants, other activities for kids, summer activities, etc.) I'm still shocked that Vail hasn't bought Seven Springs. It's just always seemed like a fit. Now Alterra may be in the mix too.
 

Jilly

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Haven't read this thread at all. Guess I should have.
Mt Ste Anne - is owned by RCR, they are not going to give it up...
Le Massif - billionaire owns it. Can't see it being for sale.
Owl's Head...hmmm. Owners are getting really long in the tooth, but daughter and husband are in it to. But prime for picking
Sutton - sold a few years ago. Could use some $$
Bromont - not a destination resort really, but could use it to get people to travel.
Orford - almost went bankrupt a few years ago. Think the province took it over.
Jay/Burke - prime for take over by someone.
Marble Mountain - NFLD...add that to your list!

Can't see any in the lower Laurentains or Ontario, except Blue which Alterra got with the Intrawest buy. They are feeder hills really, not destination resorts, like Tremblant.
 

4aprice

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The purpose here was also to identify the resorts/ski areas that could be targets of Epic and Alterra to add to their portfolios. Quite frankly, some of the smaller areas mentioned here, I never even heard of ;). These to pass giants are looking to add "feeder areas" to their collection. Families that might ski a Seven Springs or a Waterville Valley to entice them to come west to one of their bigger resorts.

I will add a few resorts from the east and, that were missed Camelback and some western NY areas) and if someone wants add, we can do a Part 3.

In the time that this series was first talked about, I believe there were two or three resorts absorbed by the big two. I expect in the next few months we will see some more too.

Interesting perspective. I saw it (the original post about the west) as about resorts that weren't under the Ikon/Epic/Peaks umbrella. Some of these places are gems and deserve support. A lot of them are remote, maybe some are considered a tier down but if you can go with out the pampering, good times. I know as a young skiing family I would have loved the Freedom Pass had it been around. If your talking targets the list becomes much smaller.

Only talking Pocono's north to Maine, others can speak of western New York down thru North Carolina

Camelback and Blue with their NY/Philly combination market.

Mountain Creek .

Wawa outside Boston.

Jay Peak (not Burke) near Montreal

Everyone talks Smugglers interconnecting with Stowe but the setup is not the same as it was and Vermont can be very difficult plus Smuggs needs some upgrades.

Burke I think is going to be cut out on its own.

Windham NY hangs out there.

I'm not one who fears the entire sport is going to be consumed by Ikon/Epic. I think there plenty of places that will stay independent.
 

Laurel Hill Crazie

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Great article, Jim. I think consolidation of the industry will continue further pressuring smaller operation that can only reduce consumer cost so much in order to match value of a multi resort pass. I think it is obvious that most ski resorts owners value a relatively inexpensive season pass over lower priced day pass. If this trend is not countered by inexpensive beginner packages it would seem that low priced season pass/high priced day passes are counter intuitive to the sports growth. As more small local resorts fail financially the entry point for new skiers becomes increasingly harder. Here's a related article from Bloomberg news: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ses-are-great-for-ski-buffs-until-they-re-not

^^^
Given the prevalence in their market, and the way the resort is set up (lots of lodging/housing, restaurants, other activities for kids, summer activities, etc.) I'm still shocked that Vail hasn't bought Seven Springs. It's just always seemed like a fit. Now Alterra may be in the mix too.

I too think that Seven Springs is a logical acquisition for a large ski company looking to buy market share in the Mid-atlantic but I don't think it's on the market. Owner Bob Nutting is young and the resort is very successful. I won't be surprised at all, in fact pretty sure that the main resort makes more money in the "off season" then it does during winter operation especially considering the vicious freeze/thaw cycles we've had these last few winters, a condition I fear has become the new normal. This makes massive snowmaking with quick recovery time a must but also require massive spending to keep the hill covered. Seven Springs 7 story hotel at the base of the hill has been sold out most weekend this summer as events, conferences, and wide variety of summer activities are offered. Yes, the Springs (as us ynzers call it) would be a tasty plum for Vail or Alterra to swallow but my hunch is the price would be too steep.
 

DanoT

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What this article fails to point out is that high priced day tickets allow the resort to sell lift tickets to lodges at a wholesale price and then the lodges are able to offer a Ski & Stay package at an attractive price.

The article also points out that new to the sport skiers are not likely to buy a pass or pay $100 for lift ticket. But they fail to mention the oppourtunity for the resort to offer a lift ticket/rental package at an attractive price as well as offer a package including lessons.

The other thing that the Bloomberg News article fails to report is the fact that many resorts offer a great deal if day lift tickets are purchased in advance on line for a specific date. This is handled by Liftopia and at some resorts this discount if purchased far enough in advance (2 weeks??) the discount can be 40% off. Also at some resorts, if you don't show up for the specified date, you loose the discount but can apply what you already paid toward the full price ticket on a different date.
 

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I too think that Seven Springs is a logical acquisition for a large ski company looking to buy market share in the Mid-atlantic but I don't think it's on the market. Owner Bob Nutting is young and the resort is very successful. I won't be surprised at all, in fact pretty sure that the main resort makes more money in the "off season" then it does during winter operation especially considering the vicious freeze/thaw cycles we've had these last few winters, a condition I fear has become the new normal. This makes massive snowmaking with quick recovery time a must but also require massive spending to keep the hill covered. Seven Springs 7 story hotel at the base of the hill has been sold out most weekend this summer as events, conferences, and wide variety of summer activities are offered. Yes, the Springs (as us ynzers call it) would be a tasty plum for Vail or Alterra to swallow but my hunch is the price would be too steep.
I skied Seven Springs for the first time two years ago with my daughter on President's weekend and thought it would be closed in a week. The surrounding countryside looked early springish. The problem was that we had a family and friends weekend planned to coincide with Pitt's spring break a few weeks later and I had wanted to get a feel for the place. I never thought they would get the resort back in good enough shape. Well, it wasn't great, but somehow we had decent conditions for three days. Most of the challenging north face was closed. We stayed at the hotel, which was a bit bizarre. It almost seemed like they had squatter's they couldn't kick out of some rooms, and a lot of folks didn't seem to be at all interested in skiing. With all the other amenities, it was just a place to go to outside of Pittsburgh for a long weekend.
 

Laurel Hill Crazie

AKA Rob Davis
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
1,267
Location
Keystone State
Good points, Dano. However all the ways to save are not easily known to first timers. I know Liftopia offers great discounts on day passes. For a few local resorts you can often buy a discount ticket from Liftopia the day before arrival. I never knew that a resort would allow applying an unused date specific ticket toward a day pass. I doubt this is a published policy. First timers will also be deterred if the local hill goes out of business and now the only option to try the sport is an overnight stay at a distant resort. Even a stay and ski package, while a good deal on the surface, may seem too steep for the first timer or a family of first timers. I think that mega mergers and marketing deal bring greater efficiencies and better value to industry and to dedicated skiers respectively, I also think that it does little to actively grow the sport.

@DanoT, I forgot to quote you.
 
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Laurel Hill Crazie

AKA Rob Davis
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
1,267
Location
Keystone State
I skied Seven Springs for the first time two years ago with my daughter on President's weekend and thought it would be closed in a week. The surrounding countryside looked early springish. The problem was that we had a family and friends weekend planned to coincide with Pitt's spring break a few weeks later and I had wanted to get a feel for the place. I never thought they would get the resort back in good enough shape. Well, it wasn't great, but somehow we had decent conditions for three days. Most of the challenging north face was closed. We stayed at the hotel, which was a bit bizarre. It almost seemed like they had squatter's they couldn't kick out of some rooms, and a lot of folks didn't seem to be at all interested in skiing. With all the other amenities, it was just a place to go to outside of Pittsburgh for a long weekend.

As I said, the freeze/thaw cycles here have been brutal these past few winters. Seven Springs has the water, air, and pumping capacity to get terrain back to skiable conditions with a 48 hour window of decent snowmaking weather. Here is and article written by this thread's starter, Jim Kenney. We skied Seven Springs and Laurel Mountain just 10 days before your visit. http://www.dcski.com/articles/1507. I'm sorry the conditions didn't match what we found earlier in the month. As for the atmosphere of the hotel well, what can I say? Seven Spring, while being Pittsburgh's and Western PA's local go to hill, is also one of the largest destination resorts in the Mid-A drawing from the near Midwest as well as Washington/Baltimore. Many choose the Springs precisely because of the range of off mountain activities offered in case the weather literally goes south. Lots to do for non skiing members of the entourage both in the resort and surrounding area. If you purchase a Highland Weekend Pass, nearby Hidden Valley and Laurel Mountain will also be available. Both have decent snowmaking and rebound quickly. If you find yourself back in the area during snow season and wish to give the Springs another go, don't hesitate to drop me a line. I'll be glad to show you around. Be forewarned, I'll try to convince you to spend at least a few hours at Laurel. If natural snow is premo I have no doubt that you will forget all about Seven Springs. If limited to snowmaking only, you will enjoy a few hours of uncrowded non-resort skiing that will provide a steep groomed and a few intermediate cruisers.
 

Marker

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Posts
2,368
Location
Kennett Square, PA & Killington, VT
As I said, the freeze/thaw cycles here have been brutal these past few winters. Seven Springs has the water, air, and pumping capacity to get terrain back to skiable conditions with a 48 hour window of decent snowmaking weather. Here is and article written by this thread's starter, Jim Kenney. We skied Seven Springs and Laurel Mountain just 10 days before your visit. http://www.dcski.com/articles/1507. I'm sorry the conditions didn't match what we found earlier in the month. As for the atmosphere of the hotel well, what can I say? Seven Spring, while being Pittsburgh's and Western PA's local go to hill, is also one of the largest destination resorts in the Mid-A drawing from the near Midwest as well as Washington/Baltimore. Many choose the Springs precisely because of the range of off mountain activities offered in case the weather literally goes south. Lots to do for non skiing members of the entourage both in the resort and surrounding area. If you purchase a Highland Weekend Pass, nearby Hidden Valley and Laurel Mountain will also be available. Both have decent snowmaking and rebound quickly. If you find yourself back in the area during snow season and wish to give the Springs another go, don't hesitate to drop me a line. I'll be glad to show you around. Be forewarned, I'll try to convince you to spend at least a few hours at Laurel. If natural snow is premo I have no doubt that you will forget all about Seven Springs. If limited to snowmaking only, you will enjoy a few hours of uncrowded non-resort skiing that will provide a steep groomed and a few intermediate cruisers.
Laurel Mountain does sound like a worthwhile side trip when I'm visiting my daughter. I've followed your discussions on its resurrection and recent seasons. We hit Hidden Valley the year before (yawn...) and I don't think I'll go back. As an athletic trainer and now physical therapist, she was assisting the adaptive ski program for one year at Hidden Valley. However, she will be joining the family at Killington for Christmas this year and early March, so we will need to see if we visit Pittsburgh during the ski season. I would like to try the rest of North Face and Laurel Mountain some day.
 

jmeb

Enjoys skiing.
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Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
4,495
Location
Colorado
Holiday Valley features a rarity for Eastern ski areas south of New England, a genuine little ski town right at the base of the slopes in the form of Ellicottville.

Minor correction in that Ellicotville isn't right at the base. You've got a 30+ minute walk into town from the nearest base area. Holimont could almost make that claim though.
 

surfsnowgirl

Instructor
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Joined
May 12, 2016
Posts
5,813
Location
Magic Mountain, Vermont
Ski Butternut is still family owned which is really cool. Owls head in the eastern townships of Quebec has recently changed hands. They were sold last spring and will be open this winter under new ownership. They've spent the summer renovating things so this is exciting. We ski here along with Sutton and Orford every January so looking forward to this season's trip.
 

Johnny V.

Half Fast Hobby Racer
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Nov 12, 2015
Posts
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Finger Lakes/Rochester NY
Minor correction in that Ellicotville isn't right at the base. You've got a 30+ minute walk into town from the nearest base area. Holimont could almost make that claim though.

It's a close enough drive though. The lack of a relatively close village or town hurts Bristol (although for us locals it keeps the traffic down) even though the vertical is quite a bit higher than HV or Holimont. Not to be a homer, but I'd include Bristol as one of the stronger NYS independents along with Holiday Valley and Windham.
 
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