Influencers, Advocates, and Those Who Pass Out the Kool-Aid

[Philpug]

This thread is for the general discussion of the Article Influencers, Advocates and those who pass out the Kool-Aid.. Please add to the discussion here.

 

[tromano]

Nice graphic. Its hard when both the devil and angel on your shoulder are whispering to buy.

If I want a really good ski for this or that, the forum has never really let me down there. Skis that are forum darlings, its for a reason.

I do think there are some important distinctions that are perhaps subtle enough to get lost in translation. And other times I think there are connections that never really get made.

I still think demoing skis is critical, to see what is out there, to understand the discussion at all, and if you are looking for something specific, to select the right ski for you.

 

[Tricia]

Nice graphic. Its hard when both the devil and angel on your shoulder are whispering to buy.

I still think demoing skis is critical, to see what is out there, to understand the discussion at all, and if you are looking for something specific, to select the right ski for you.

That all depends on the individual and the age of their "old" skis before buying "new" skis.
There have been times when the person in front of the ski wall is on such old gear that demoing will only confuse. Occasionally the person has such old technique any new ski will feel like a different world.

This is from real life experience on the ski wall at a variety of shops.

 

[tromano]

That all depends on the individual and the age of their "old" skis before buying "new" skis.
There have been times when the person in front of the ski wall is on such old gear that demoing will only confuse. Occasionally the person has such old technique any new ski will feel like a different world.

This is from real life experience on the ski wall at a variety of shops.

Absolutely, I see that perspective. And old technique, sometimes you just have to jump in to the pool first.

 

[tromano]

Looking back at the discussion linked in the article above particularly:

The Unbiased Biased Review

Can any review be completely unbiased? We honestly don't think so, and we think it is unrealistic to expect it. We all have biases; as much as we try to be impartial, biases build up over the years. Now, before getting out of whack, let's embrace our humanness. We all have preconceived opinions...

www.skitalk.com

Its obvious that things have changed since 2016. Personally, In 2016 I didn't own a ski that wasn't full 2 sheets of metal laminate and wood core. Today half my quiver; 60% of ski days are on a wood core without metal except maybe a plate underfoot.

In 2016 the community was mostly focused on ski shape - taper and camber/rocker profiles than construction. Most interesting skis followed a common formula of wood core with 1 or more full metal laminates.

Today the manufacturing techniques are driving the discussion with "technology", unusual materials, manipulation of conventional materials, and other IP elements seem to be driving ski performance and character more and more. And when shapes are discussed it more about how the shapes integrate with construction to achieve certain things in the ski.

So if anything, places like skitalk are more important now than ever since we need to be able to make sense of these new constructions and discuss how they work.

 

[fatbob]

I appreciate the who's it for nature of Skitalk reviews although the answer is rarely for me. 2 of my favourite all time skis are the Icelantic Shaman and the Volkl Shiro and I can't imagine those skis being reviewed here. That's OK because Blister ( and to some extent TGR) is there for that.

I also find some of the fine tuning around piste skis a bit niggly when the answer for strong skiers would probably often be served by a race ski/consumer variant but I appreciate it can matter a lot when people are sensitive to things like flex and length. Plus race skis are heavier than black holes of course


For me the challenge of getting on a new to me ski is figuring how to ski it to wring the fun out. It means I've been able to ski thing like the Cochise and the Soul 7 back to back and enjoy them both. Most demos do a good job but the odd ski will just suck due to tune or mount point.

Influencers meh. They're fairly obvious. I can see a future where everyone ends up an influencer of some kind, constantly on the grift for some freebie.

 

[Near Nyquist]

View attachment 209643

@Andy Mink getting influenced
I don’t believe it for one second
Except in the purchase of off road power sports vehicles and guns

 

[Tricia]

So if anything, places like skitalk are more important now than ever since we need to be able to make sense of these new constructions and discuss how they work.

That is one of the main reasons we have testers who have these qualities (and more)

• Participate regularly here and are able to answer questions
• Have a solid knowledge of the skis they're reviewing
• Have a solid knowledge of other skis in the category to compare
• Can discern the attributes of the skis

 

[Philpug]

2 of my favourite all time skis are the Icelantic Shaman and the Volkl Shiro and I can't imagine those skis being reviewed here.

Soooo... you like a ski with a LOT of taper? We did get on the Shaman 2.0 this year and having been on the original ... and liking it, the new version didn't catch the lightning in the bottle that the original had. The Shiro was long gone before we launched Pugski. I am not sure when the last time you were on either of these skis, but they were two designs that were thrown against the wall and didn't quite stick other than for a few select few.

 

[Near Nyquist]

View attachment 209649 Soooo... you like a ski with a LOT of taper? We did get on the Shaman 2.0 this year and having been on the original ... and liking it, the new version didn't catch the lightning in the bottle that the original had. The Shiro was long gone before we launched Pugski. I am not sure when the last time you were on either of these skis, but they were two designs that were thrown against the wall and didn't quite stick other than for a few select few.

@Philpug is that the proverbial elephant in the room ?

 

[fatbob]

Still got my OG Shaman graphic pair but one has a blown edge. Skied the Shiros a lot last winter in Tahoe storms.

 

[tromano]

Icelantic Shaman and the Volkl Shiro and I can't imagine those skis being reviewed here. That's OK because Blister ( and to some extent TGR) is there for that.

Are you talking about the ski selector or just from people who post here? The skis elector reviews touch on a good number of softsnow and freeride skis here each year and a limited selection of resort powder skis as well. Plenty more from the community here.

TGR is great resource if you have the patience to dig through their lengthy and disorganized threads; and if you are are interested in the relative handful of skis that the community is up on in a particular year.

I have lost patience with Blister personally.

 

[Wade]

I’ve been thinking about this issue. Not about influencers as most people think about them - this site is about as close as I come to doing social media - but the more “traditional” influencers.

Both of my kids (10 and 12) ski in a competition mogul program. The head coach and another coach are both on Kastle’s Mogul X skis for the coming season. 9 out of 10 kids in the program skied IDOne last season.

I was about ready to set them both up with the IDOnes for the coming season as the default choice. However my son spent last week at a ramp camp at the Lake Placid Olympic training center with his coaches, And he came home adamant that he should be on Kastles for the coming season.

I implicitly trust both of the coaches who are recommending those skis for my kids, and I don’t believe either of them would be recommending them for their athletes if they didn’t believe the Kastles weren’t at least as good (or better) than the IDOnes.

That said, taking this approach seems to provide the opportunity for an excellent return on a relatively small marketing investment for the manufacturer - give a small number of skis to people at a resort who have significant influence over what 100 or so other people ski. You probably don’t need to sell more than a couple of pairs as a direct outcome of the investment to break even, and anything on top of that is driving revenue and profits beyond what the company would otherwise have realized.

 

[Philpug]

I’ve been thinking about this issue. Not about influencers as most people think about them - this site is about as close as I come to doing social media - but the more “traditional” influencers.

Both of my kids (10 and 12) ski in a competition mogul program. The head coach and another coach are both on Kastle’s Mogul X skis for the coming season. 9 out of 10 kids in the program skied IDOne last season.

I was about ready to set them both up with the IDOnes for the coming season as the default choice. However my son spent last week at a ramp camp at the Lake Placid Olympic training center with his coaches, And he came home adamant that he should be on Kastles for the coming season.

I implicitly trust both of the coaches who are recommending those skis for my kids, and I don’t believe either of them would be recommending them for their athletes if they didn’t believe the Kastles weren’t at least as good (or better) than the IDOnes.

That said, taking this approach seems to provide the opportunity for an excellent return on a relatively small marketing investment for the manufacturer - give a small number of skis to people at a resort who have significant influence over what 100 or so other people ski. You probably don’t need to sell more than a couple of pairs as a direct outcome of the investment to break even, and anything on top of that is driving revenue and profits beyond what the company would otherwise have realized.

This is a concern that comes up quite a bit and deservedly so. We have seen situations where coaches bring in athletes and insist that they are on a specific brand and so your concern is warrented. I recall also when instructors who were "mountain reps" for specific brnads would either send other instructors or students in for a boot fit, I was clear intially that if the brand they represent work, I would start there, but the reason they trusted me enough to fit the person, they had to understand that I was going to put the skier in the best boot, for them.

 

[Jim Kenney]

Still got my OG Shaman graphic pair but one has a blown edge. Skied the Shiros a lot last winter in Tahoe storms.

Icelantic Shamans for the win!

 

[Andy Mink]

@Andy Mink getting influenced
I don’t believe it for one second
Except in the purchase of off road power sports vehicles and guns

NEVER! Honestly, I usually gravitate to the smaller/odd man out brands. Honda Talon instead of Polaris RZR, Kawasaki Teryx2 instead of Polaris General, Ram instead of Ford, Roger instead of S&W. Given two skis of equal or close "skill sets", if I was to chose FOR MYSELF I'd probably go with the oddball.

 

[snwbrdr]

There's ski influencers on social media like Instagram and TikTok?

personally, I have no idea how people get hooked on influencers, as I have been socially inept and never in with the current (at the time) fads, or I just don't have the money for that lifestyle.

Maybe there needs to be a psychological study on people who religiously follow the advice of influencers...

 

[Cheizz]

At Gigiski, we don't really do social media. The only thing we post on Facebook is 'we have new content online' with a link to that content on our own website. We do have some hashtags in there, because we do get clothing and protection sponsored (we don't review those product categories though, that's why we're confident that sponsorship doesn't interfere with our impartial views in our published content).

Gigiski started because, on many platforms, members would shout out suggestions before even understanding what the requester was actually looking for. Maybe it's my consultancy background, but in order to suggest any kind of solution, one must first understand the problem (and root causes), IMO. That's what we focus on with our core business: ski advice (It was never set up as a commercial business though). The ski reviews we put out are just there for two reasons: 1) to save ourselves time describing skis we recommend in the ski advice, and 2) to have regular content published (Google really likes that).

We are still figuring out whether we want affiliate links to shops that sell the stuff we review or allow advertisement on our website. Apart from the technical implications (we are not website gurus), we're unsure whether that would impact our impartial, independent reputation.

 

[Living Proof]

Speaking of influencers, we need to recognize the contribution that @Philpug made a decade ago when Kastle skis returned to the market. That was the era of Epic Ski and Phil was the first to rave about the performance. He had a Kastle fleet of demo's and took them all over the east to get them skied. Very quickly they became THE ski to own. Not to be confused with The Ski, another of Phil's fav skis, perhaps for graphics.

Truth be told, I went with Phil to the Elk Mountain Pa. demo day, tried the 88 and then bought them.

Phil and Trish have built Ski Talk into a powerful marketing tool. Well done!

 

[crgildart]

Highly experienced lifelong skiers don't always remember how hard it was to learn to read between the lines in gear reviews.. Newer folks don't always really know what they'll like and what they'll hate when it comes to skis and boots the way us veterans do.

There are excellent sources that are aging out and a lot of noise from wannabees who are literally just making stuff up to get likes and hits. I feel for the next generation of skiers, especially those who are not in skier families and have to figure it ALL out for themselves..