Initiative in Colorado to Require Ski Areas to Report Injuries / Death

[martyg]

Some Colorado lawmakers want ski resorts to report injuries and fatalities

Etthan Mañon was ready to tackle the main run at Echo Mountain after skiing several laps on the beginner hill. The 18-year-old was with a bunch of family, in town from the Dominican Republic for the Christmas holidays and skiing for the first time in his life. “He was doing great. Controlled...

coloradosun.com

 

[skix]

To me it seems overdue and obvious that ski resorts should be required to report injuries and deaths at their areas. That some operators seek to hide and obscure the toll of the sport is unethical.

I hear it claimed that everyone who skis knows the risks. Not true. The true risk is hidden because much of the carnage goes unseen and unknown to most. People do not ski with informed knowledge of the multiple ways they can be maimed or killed. Many have no idea of the dangers in which they are putting their children when they allow them on the slopes.

Of course injuries and deaths should be reported!

 

[fatbob]

Hmm as skiers we know that only one person is responsible for the injuries the 18 yr old incurred. So I'm not so into the emotive lead.

But it seems a reasonable ask for resorts to publish injury stats and/or logs. I guess there is a limit where they won't ultimately know outcomes in all cases that are handed over to paramedics/medivac.

 

[doc]

I'm generally not in favor of legislative/regulatory intrusion in anything but, as the old proverb says, "whatever gets measured gets managed." If such legislation can make skiing safer, then I'm all for it.

 

[dbostedo]

I'm generally not in favor of legislative/regulatory intrusion in anything but, as the old proverb says, "whatever gets measured gets managed." If such legislation can make skiing safer, then I'm all for it.

I suppose it depends on how they make it safer. An obvious negative example would be - what if to be safer they mandated a 15 MPH skiing speed limit everywhere? Or got rid of any tree skiing? etc.

That would certainly be safer, but way too safe (IMO).

 

[fatbob]

It could be part of the resort's safety work - "Ski with care - 13,468 injuries, 4 deaths last season" signs might have some impact for those rocking up with a Disneyland or speed freak mindset. At the very least it could stop the " how could I have known?" type lawsuit positioning.

And shouldn't resorts which end up out of line on the stats be embarassed into doing something about it? I'm thinking more about serious injury/ deaths through personal collisions rather than trees of course.

 

[François Pugh]

I'm all for reporting deaths and injuries (at least the ones they know about), but I'm totally against mandated "safety plans". That's a rabbit hole I don't want to see anyone go down.

 

[James]

Or got rid of any tree skiing?

I think the vast majority of tree deaths happen from groomers. But, I guess we have no stats on that.

 

[dbostedo]

I think the vast majority of tree deaths happen from groomers. But, I guess we have no stats on that.

OK then... you can only ski in trees.

I think you're right - it was just a made up example of taking things too far.

There are some stats on deaths, since some records are kept, whether the resorts compile them or not. There's this series from the Summit daily: https://www.summitdaily.com/news/skier-deaths/ , and the NSAA publishes things sometimes, like this: https://nsaa.org/webdocs/Media_Public/IndustryStats/fatality_fact_sheet_2020-21.pdf ... I believe one of their reports showed that the most common way to die when skiing is hitting a tree when skiing an intermediate slope.

But statistics on injuries are much harder or non-existant.

 

[James]

Yup, while we’re at it we should get rid of chairlifts. For safety sake.

 

[scott43]

It's interesting..but it's a bit of a mug's game in my opinion. People are not great at understanding risk and danger. Report injuries and deaths, ok, that's a public health issue. But I don't think it will "educate" people in any meaningful way. It's kinda like making every website that uses cookies (which is every website..) to put up an OK button so you understand they're using cookies. Woo! Big victory! Meanwhile, Google and Facebook can pull whatever data they want on you without any oversight whatsoever. So it'll make someone feel good, they've ticked a box.

 

[Johnny V.]

No problem with publishing death and injury stats. But if you read the article, who is really responsible-the uncle who was "an experienced Colorado skier" that overterrained his total beginner nephew or the resort that was billed as an "intermediate" hill? It's easy to make headlines and call for legislation, but as proven time and time again, you can't prevent stupid behavior. I see this all the time (and especially this year) of people way above their heads in ability vs. terrain.

 

[James]

People are not great at understanding risk and danger.

It’s like people all freaked out in Europe over 18 events of clotting in 20 million people. Lower than the general background numbers.

 

[martyg]

I'm all for reporting deaths and injuries (at least the ones they know about), but I'm totally against mandated "safety plans". That's a rabbit hole I don't want to see anyone go down.

Totally agree. I feel that on the downslope side of every rollover resort management should pepper the slope with snowcats and snowmaking equipment. Maybe drop in a few boulders.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

“I’m from the government. I’m here to help”

 

[scott43]

The problem with writing stuff down is..you've written stuff down. I'm sure 100% of ski resorts try their best every day to save people from the dangers of skiing and save them from themselves. It's impossible to mitigate risk 100%. And if you start writing stuff down..well..that's just ammunition for lawyers when something doesn't go well. Just make it a one-liner: "We endeavour to take every reasonable step to mitigate risk."

 

[raytseng]

No problem with publishing death and injury stats. But if you read the article, who is really responsible-the uncle who was "an experienced Colorado skier" that overterrained his total beginner nephew or the resort that was billed as an "intermediate" hill? It's easy to make headlines and call for legislation, but as proven time and time again, you can't prevent stupid behavior. I see this all the time (and especially this year) of people way above their heads in ability vs. terrain.

Yea, that article used a bad example that could get torn apart;

but Consider this hypothetical if instead the example is a known merge where say 300 people/season collide and get seriously injured(require hospital) and sledded off, or a similar extreme place where there are a couple deaths every year from a similar situation. They have the records, and what if the records show the resort isn't able to reduce those acccidents at that intersection. If there is a historical record, yet they don't reduce, then this then borders on negligence.

Once people start dying, you've used up the strikes of we didn't know. If there is a pattern of people are dying in an extreme area, then you got to start putting up ropes and gates or even consider closing the area if you can't reduce the deaths.

I think this is similar of the Mcdonalds Hot Coffee case, (if you go research all the perspectives of that case, not just the Jokes); Both the surface view that this is an isolated incident of single stupid behavior; Or to dig deeper and there is a huge established pattern and a Business Decision to decide to not reduce injury but instead just paying off the injured as cost of business.

 

[martyg]

Yea, that article used a bad example that could get torn apart;

but Consider this hypothetical if instead the example is a known merge where say 300 people/season collide and get seriously injured(require hospital) and sledded off, or a similar extreme place where there are a couple deaths every year from a similar situation. They have the records, and what if the records show the resort isn't able to reduce those acccidents at that intersection. If there is a historical record, yet they don't reduce, then this then borders on negligence.

Once people start dying, you've used up the strikes of we didn't know. If there is a pattern of people are dying in an extreme area, then you got to start putting up ropes and gates or even consider closing the area if you can't reduce the deaths.

I think this is similar of the Mcdonalds Hot Coffee case, (if you go research all the perspectives of that case, not just the Jokes); Both the surface view that this is an isolated incident of single stupid behavior; Or to dig deeper and there is a huge established pattern and a Business Decision to decide to not reduce injury but instead just paying off the injured as cost of business.

Agree with everything that you said.

Ski hills and patrol knows exactly wherre those problem area are. Piublic reporting, and tramnsparency, builds accountability. Without transparency, in accounting, manufacturing, athletics, or safety initiatives, there is no accountability. Entities are free do to the easy thing. Not the right thing.

 

[Seldomski]

The 18-year-old was with a bunch of family, in town from the Dominican Republic for the Christmas holidays and skiing for the first time in his life.

“He was doing great. Controlled turns and stopping. He was eager to try the main hill. I didn’t know how dangerous it was,” said his uncle, Scott Streeb, a longtime Colorado skier who said he brought his nephew and other family members to Echo — the closest resort to Denver, just a few miles above Evergreen — “thinking it was a good place for beginners.”

“I didn’t know,” Streeb said.

Article shows just how dangerous skiing is when you take someone to terrain they cannot yet handle. It's a good reminder to myself to never try to teach a beginner how to ski.

Not sure more signage would have helped in this case. The "longtime skier" should have noticed the waivers you need to sign to get a lift ticket these days. Maybe there's too much signage? So many signs that no one reads them anymore?

What a terrible story.

 

[coskigirl]

I meant to ask my ski law professor (a defense attorney) about this last night but forgot. I'll try to remember next week because I'd be curious to hear his opinion.