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Inside leg in carving

James

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Yeah equal pressure is probably a special situation. Not a goal. Tracking and engaged inside is goal most times. But that’s a wide range. Enough to make a line.

To the op, actively tip the inside foot, pull it back some so you feel tension in the ankle, and shorten the leg. It’s a very active process. Balance on that outside foot. That’s the strong one that does the work, but the inside is the brains.

^
Define "Tip."
Well inverting and everting the foot. That changes it’s relationship to the lower leg shaft. If the boot is like a plaster cast, then you cant change that relationship. You can still ski, but I think you’ve destroyed the bodies balance system and protection of the knee with muscles through reflexive action.
That muscular activity is too fast for conscious thought. It’s a sensor response/reaction. Much of it probably from the soles of the feet.

How exactly all that works I don’t know. Much of that comes from McPhail and other basics over the years. It resonates with my experience and watching others. Probably one of these days we’ll install sensors or have a boot liner that tells the boot setup person what’s going on inside. But then there’s the interpretation of the data... :eek:

But on a basic level, the foot/ankle has to be the most complicated mechanically in the body. Turning it into a piece of wood is going against the entire evolution of bipedal humans.
 

crgildart

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Not even on page 3 yet and already splitting hairs over things that folks are just saying differently but very much the same concepts..
 

Dakine

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But on a basic level, the foot/ankle has to be the most complicated mechanically in the body. Turning it into a piece of wood is going against the entire evolution of bipedal humans.

I never said anything about turning your foot into a piece of wood.
It's a blob of protoplasm (mostly water) with a bunch of bones and tendons that articulate the parts.
What I object to is the idea that there is enough room in your boots to slop around and actually change where you are stepping in the boot.
I sure don't want slop, I want a liner that contacts my foot all over but doesn't choke it so much that you cannot apply pressure to the sole where where I want it.
It is the idea that you are moving your foot around freely in the boot that I object to.
To me, it is about pressure not actual free movement of the foot.
If your boots are so tight you cannot even wiggle your toes a bit you are going to be in a world of hurt.
 

Rod9301

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^
Absolutely!
It is also part of the movement pattern that keeps the hip from rotating into too much counter.
New school skiers are very two footed while those who wrestled longboards use a lot of counter and are more one footed.
In general, I like to think in terms of where the pressure is being applied rather than in terms of movements.
That's why I like discussions where the focus is on what is happening in the boots.
It's all about Ankleation.
Ok, New schooler, so are you two footed on firm or ice?
 

Dakine

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Ok, New schooler, so are you two footed on firm or ice?

I'm definitely old school but am trying to learn not to use a lot of counter.
IMHO, lots of counter makes you one legged and back at the end of a turn.
Two strong feet are more stable than one heavily countered foot.
This is new school skiing....
New School
Don't I wish....:)
 

Chris V.

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I'm definitely old school but am trying to learn not to use a lot of counter.
IMHO, lots of counter makes you one legged and back at the end of a turn.
Two strong feet are more stable than one heavily countered foot.
This is new school skiing....
New School
Don't I wish....:)
If you're speaking of minimizing counter, that's not what I'm seeing in the Mikaela clip. Can you restate your position, rephrasing it? (If the student's giving you a blank expression, explain again using different words, LOL.)
 

Chris V.

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^
One footed and lots of counter.
Old School
I see the one footed part, certainly. Tomba was a beast, of course, and there was a muscularity to his skiing that you wouldn't see so much today. Instructive comparison with Shiffrin.

But I'm going to argue that Tomba and Shiffrin--or any WC skier from 1995 and any WC skier today--have far, far more in common than any of the above has with 99.99% of recreational skiers. As in--lots more counter, for one thing. It's just absent in most recreational skiers. It'll be the issue for hardly anyone in this forum--certainly not including me--to make choices among fairly subtle differences between WC styles of recent years.
 

oldschoolskier

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:geek: :doh: is the only response to some of the posts.

Look at any of the top skiers in the last 80 years, equipment may be different, but look at your technique today (modern equipment adjusted), and you’ll find it hasn’t changed.

Additionally, the top WC skier’s define the what the skiers of the future do, as the past WC skiers defined what we do today. Dismissing how they skied shows what isn’t understood about technique and how it applies today.

As to the initial post, it is not about which leg moves but how biomechanics dictate how the movement occurs. The trend currently (more or less the last 30+ years) is a near balanced loading based on current ski design (look at the best skiers and you’ll see equal snow spray). Don’t over think it.
 

oldschoolskier

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Perhaps a lot of the fundamentals haven't changed, but technique certainly has. Slalom skiers don't "step" with their inside ski like in that Tomba video.

I learned and worked on how Tomba skied, back then it was the only way to get the energy out of the skis, for the lightening fast gates. BTW the wasway more than a step involved in his technique, it was more of a pull back and kick, two footed I may add, it was like adding afterburners or NOX.

BTW the top SL skiers still do it today, just not as large (not enough tail of the ski), but a further pull back to load the tips. Tomba’s SL skis were wide shovel, narrow waist, narrow tail, if you need more you stepped to make it or got on the tails and let them fire you to the next initiation (one hoped), and modern skiers do the same. Slight timing difference same technique.
 

dbostedo

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I learned and worked on how Tomba skied, back then it was the only way to get the energy out of the skis, for the lightening fast gates. BTW the wasway more than a step involved in his technique, it was more of a pull back and kick, two footed I may add, it was like adding afterburners or NOX.

BTW the top SL skiers still do it today, just not as large (not enough tail of the ski), but a further pull back to load the tips. Tomba’s SL skis were wide shovel, narrow waist, narrow tail, if you need more you stepped to make it or got on the tails and let them fire you to the next initiation (one hoped), and modern skiers do the same. Slight timing difference same technique.
I get what you're saying, but you and I have very different definitions as to what constitutes the same or different technique.
 

SSSdave

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The inside leg is not just asleep along for the ride, but rather a tool to be used as it may to complement the Downhill ski. And indeed I do in many ways for the better.
 

Chris V.

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I think I should be shortening the inside leg (and/or lengthening the outside leg?) more when trying to carve medium to long radius terms - to get more angulation vs too much inclination, but not sure how to think about / approach it. Do people have good drills and/or cues for focusing on this?
Here's one approach, from SIA Austria:


The discussion of the work with the skier given as an example starts at 6:10. Goes on for a while.
 

oldschoolskier

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@dbostedo no offense taken or implied.

Technique and equipment change hand in hand to maximize performance, each take turns in leading the progression. What hasn’t changed is biomechanics and the limits it imposes, hence the the change we see while it looks different is really not that different.

As such each new iteration whether equipment or technique solves a problem, at the same time it also creates new problem and the cycle repeats. Hits that old phrase, what is old is new again.

What I find funny that when I look at old video of skiers day gone by and modern skiers, all that really has changed is the extremes we can push the limits of the equipment within the frame work of our bodies.
 

markojp

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I hate the description "tipping the feet in the boots."
it is misleading and physically wrong.
IMHO, you cannot tip your foot in well fitted boots!
What you can do is articulate the various bones in your foot to change the pressure distribution on the footbed and cuffs.
You can press on the LTE, you can press on the BTE and you can shift the pressure distribution laterally.
Changing the pressure distribution inside the boot is translated into changing the pressure distribution on the ski.
If your boots are so loose that you can actually move your whole foot significantly, you have a problem.
.......:popcorn:

You move your feet, they move your boots, your boots move your skis. Well fit boots are like a car with great tires and suspension.
:beercheer:
 

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