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Intermediate vs Advanced vs Expert skiers: labels

Wannabeskibum

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CARV data is very one dimensional. The algorithms that interpret the data are biased toward groomed slopes of a typical “blue square” pitch. If you ski terrain or snow conditions, i.e. powder, chowder, trees, bumps, above tree line chutes, bowls with variable snow conditions your IQ will indicate that you are more likely to be less capable than your true ability. I have also been told that world cup racers probably don’t have the highest ski IQs. I have skied with PSIA level 3 instructors at Breckenridge, who whether it is stroking my ego or who I think are being honest say that I am a true level 9 (but of course, according to CARV, let’s just say that I am not that smart - I spend very little time on groomed terrain except to warm up in the morning). I have two other data points that come from a group setting of level 8-9 skiers at Breckenridge on E-chair terrain, the instructor turns to me when we about to enter a “tight” part of the trail that is bumped up, she says to me - “Mark, what is your strategy for skiing this section of the trail”. Her point to the rest of the class is that there is more to skiing than body movement down a slope as there is also intentionality. Second data point, on the lift ride up from that run, the youngest participant in the class (college age) turns to me (the oldest participant) and says - “You are really good, I want to be able to ski just like you”. So, I don’t know if that makes me an expert - but I can ski more than competently on all terrain in all snow conditions (although I am better in trees and bumps than wide open bowls). I have always liked the Breckenridge rating system which defines 9 as uses poles, balance, technique in all snow conditions in all terrain - to me that is an expert skier.
 

slowrider

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Expert?
Screenshot_20220326-162257_Pulse SMS.jpg
 
Thread Starter
TS
Yepow

Yepow

Excuse me, I'm an intermediate
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François Pugh

Skiing the powder
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CARV data is very one dimensional. The algorithms that interpret the data are biased toward groomed slopes of a typical “blue square” pitch. If you ski terrain or snow conditions, i.e. powder, chowder, trees, bumps, above tree line chutes, bowls with variable snow conditions your IQ will indicate that you are more likely to be less capable than your true ability. I have also been told that world cup racers probably don’t have the highest ski IQs. I have skied with PSIA level 3 instructors at Breckenridge, who whether it is stroking my ego or who I think are being honest say that I am a true level 9 (but of course, according to CARV, let’s just say that I am not that smart - I spend very little time on groomed terrain except to warm up in the morning). I have two other data points that come from a group setting of level 8-9 skiers at Breckenridge on E-chair terrain, the instructor turns to me when we about to enter a “tight” part of the trail that is bumped up, she says to me - “Mark, what is your strategy for skiing this section of the trail”. Her point to the rest of the class is that there is more to skiing than body movement down a slope as there is also intentionality. Second data point, on the lift ride up from that run, the youngest participant in the class (college age) turns to me (the oldest participant) and says - “You are really good, I want to be able to ski just like you”. So, I don’t know if that makes me an expert - but I can ski more than competently on all terrain in all snow conditions (although I am better in trees and bumps than wide open bowls). I have always liked the Breckenridge rating system which defines 9 as uses poles, balance, technique in all snow conditions in all terrain - to me that is an expert skier.
I am not a "carve" expert or even user, but FWIW, I agree with you; it seems to rate ability at a specific task, generating high g turns on smooth terrain with generally accepted timing and weighting on the skis.
Same is true about hanging the definition of expert on any other specific task or attribute.
After some thought, I would say it's a matter of expectations. I would expect an expert skier to be able to ski any open run on a trail map without a second thought, in control and without hesitation or difficulty.
 

JCF

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I would make a distinction between an expert (overall, all conditions) and a specialist (expert in certain conditions)
 

rickg

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CARV data is very one dimensional. The algorithms that interpret the data are biased toward groomed slopes of a typical “blue square” pitch. If you ski terrain or snow conditions, i.e. powder, chowder, trees, bumps, above tree line chutes, bowls with variable snow conditions your IQ will indicate that you are more likely to be less capable than your true ability. I have also been told that world cup racers probably don’t have the highest ski IQs. I have skied with PSIA level 3 instructors at Breckenridge, who whether it is stroking my ego or who I think are being honest say that I am a true level 9 (but of course, according to CARV, let’s just say that I am not that smart - I spend very little time on groomed terrain except to warm up in the morning). I have two other data points that come from a group setting of level 8-9 skiers at Breckenridge on E-chair terrain, the instructor turns to me when we about to enter a “tight” part of the trail that is bumped up, she says to me - “Mark, what is your strategy for skiing this section of the trail”. Her point to the rest of the class is that there is more to skiing than body movement down a slope as there is also intentionality. Second data point, on the lift ride up from that run, the youngest participant in the class (college age) turns to me (the oldest participant) and says - “You are really good, I want to be able to ski just like you”. So, I don’t know if that makes me an expert - but I can ski more than competently on all terrain in all snow conditions (although I am better in trees and bumps than wide open bowls). I have always liked the Breckenridge rating system which defines 9 as uses poles, balance, technique in all snow conditions in all terrain - to me that is an expert skier.

I am probably a lot like you. When I go on club trips, I have had folks tell me I am the best skier they have skied with which always makes me uncomfortable as I know I am not the best skier I have ever skied with. I have also been asked how I got so good? I tell them I worked damn hard at it just as you have to do in every sport.

I don't need a computer program to tell me I'm good or when I make a mistake. Trust me, I am aware of every mistake I make. A curse of being a high level skier. We notice our errors that recreational skiers don't see.

As for being an expert, I think it is like being a black belt in Karate. Once you reach black belt, you are only level 1 black with other levels to go. So, in skiing, once you reach "expert" there are still things to learn that take you to the next level. At age 67 and having skied 50 years, I am still striving to reach that next level. It is a life long quest.

There is a term I prefer over "expert skier" and that is "mountain master". That was a term a ski magazine used some years back to describe a skier that is comfortable skiing all over the mountain and looks good doing it.

Rick G
 

dj61

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There are plenty of gradations of expert so you don't need to be Reilly, Lorenz or Gellie to be one. I also agree with @François Pugh that you'd need to see how they ski in other terrain and conditions. IMO anyone wanting the expert label has to ski all terrain and conditions in any combination with good technique and in control.
You only have to go to YT to see them in all type of terrain.
 

TheArchitect

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You only have to go to YT to see them in all type of terrain.
You misunderstood my post but I can see how my use of the word "they" is confusing. The "they" was not being specific about Reilly, Lorenz and Gellie but anyone wanting to be considered an expert. That said, the sentiment of the first sentence is that I do in fact think those 3 are experts but you don't need to equal them to also be considered one. I subscribe to Gellie's website and have seen many videos from Projected Productions.
 

dovski

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Reading this thread it is clear that defining ability and expertise is incredibly subjective. That said let me give this a try.
A big part of being in an expert goes beyond skill and ability in all conditions, you need to consistently have that level of skill and ability. For example there are days or even runs within a given day of skiing, where I feel like I nail it, consistent turns, great form, speed, control and maybe even a little flair ... and then the next run something happens and I am a hot mess lol. While everyone makes mistakes or has bad days, with an expert skier these are few and far between and even when it happens they will realize it, but those watching them won't. Generally those who introduce themselves as expert skiers are not. The best way I can put it is that while I cannot properly describe what makes an expert skier, I know it when I see it .... which is a big reason why I hate watching videos of myself skiing lol.

I also agree that the 1-9 level system falls apart once you hit level 7. In the Ski Pros clinic I like to take which is supposed to be level 7 and above they always have a people who sign up and need to moved down to regular lessons because it would be dangerous to take them on the terrain the clinic focuses on. These folks self evaluate and level themselves up in a bad bad way. What is worse are those who proclaim their expertise and do not feel they need any lessons/clinics but really should not be skiing the advanced or expert runs .... these are the people I try to avoid when skiing as being in their presence is a liability for all of us.
 

tch

What do I know; I'm just some guy on the internet.
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I'm more experter than you!
 

TheArchitect

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Yeah, well I'm the best skier on the mountain!
 
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markojp

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You're an expert? I'm so much more experter than you. :roflmao:
 

markojp

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... it would be dangerous to take them on the terrain the clinic focuses on. These folks self evaluate and level themselves up in a bad bad way. What is worse are those who proclaim their expertise and do not feel they need any lessons/clinics but really should not be skiing the advanced or expert runs .... these are the people I try to avoid when skiing as being in their presence is a liability for all of us.

Alpental sorta sorts folks out quickly. ogsmile
 

dovski

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Alpental sorta sorts folks out quickly. ogsmile
Kinda sort of ... and yet some folks come up with darnedest reasons for why they did not ski well there ... too small, too crowded, elevation was too low, snow was too deep or not what they like .... personally I am fine with those folks finding other resorts :)
 
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