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Is Kästle in decline

Wasatchman

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Last year a few members and I had a spirited debate about changes under Kastle's new ownership.

From perusing the threads, Kastle stoke appears to be down considerably from prior years on ski talk. I spent this past ski season in New Zealand and was absent last ski season to speak to people/shops to get a sense.

So I'm asking the question, do people have an opinion if the Kastle brand is currently in decline? I'm curious.
 

Philpug

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Kastle is going with a full collection of skis including a $449 package ski in the EX74 which I refer to as a "Gateway Kastle", a good entry level ski to bring someone into the Kastle family. There is an upcoming PX81 that I would put up against any other $749 system ski. MX's are still MX's and ski well. The ZX108 is very good and the upcoming ZX100 is an off piste biased 100 that IMHO has a bit much early rise in the tip and tail but otherwise skis well.
 

KingGrump

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Could be... I suppose there is no "never ending Kästle thread". Of course, there's also no "never ending anything-else thread" either I don't think.

That is just the work of few easily excitable and overly enthusiastic fan boys.
Are they nice? Yes.
Are they that much nicer? IMO, no.
They'll on another band wagon in a season or two.
 
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Wasatchman

Wasatchman

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How'd you figure that?
I haven't seen any threads on SkiTalk waxing poetic about Kastle like I used to see in the past or like you see with Stockli.

It seems new management is trying to transform Kastle into more of a mass brand. I'm skeptical as I think the ski market is already oversaturated as it is. But let's see. Maybe they pull it off.
 

James

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I haven't seen any threads on SkiTalk waxing poetic about Kästle like I used to see in the past or like you see with Stöckli.
I would agree, but whether that has any meaning in the larger sense is another thing.

However, I do know a shop that was a Kastle dealer from day 1, and even got an award from Kastle along the way, that switched to Stockli two years ago. So, there’s that data point, could have no meaning.
 

Philpug

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There are ebb and flow with every brand...IMHO Kastle went through a low time and is on the way back up again with the revamping of the line. What is nice with a smaller "boutique" brand as Kastle is they can make adjustments quickly ie the new consctuction of the FX collection. I think bringing the manufacturing under their own roof was a huge step forward in helping this.
 
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Wasatchman

Wasatchman

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There are ebb and flow with every brand...IMHO Kästle went through a low time and is on the way back up again with the revamping of the line. What is nice with a smaller "boutique" brand as Kästle is they can make adjustments quickly ie the new consctuction of the FX collection. I think bringing the manufacturing under their own roof was a huge step forward in helping this.
To me it seems like ownership is attempting a total brand transformation from premium boutique to broader mass appeal including a wider range of skis and price points.

This seems like a huge challenge in what is already a very crowded ski market. I wonder how they're going to even pull off getting the retail shelf space for their broader collection in any meaningful way. Who will they take shelf space from? I can't see retailers adding even more shelf space to skis so presumably if Kästle is gain shelf space to support new models who will they take it from? I don't see it. Maybe they assume they can succeed via online sales and don't need the shelf space.

If they succeed their return on investment on the purchase of Kästle would likely be very high as they probably paid relatively very little for the brand. They also risk killing the brand entirely if they fail as I see high risk that previous Kästle enthusiasts abandon the brand entirely given the new direction.

I'm in the skeptical camp they pull this off. For all I know new ownership may even be thinking the odds are difficult, but with the calculated understanding that the upside is significant relative to the downside given the low cost they probably paid for Kästle. Analogous to betting on a longshot at a horse race. Most likely it doesn't win but if it does the payoff is huge.

Most on here may not care, and simply look for skis they like. I am interested on the business side of things for whatever reason in addition to how skis perform.
 
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tomahawkins

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I've often considered getting Kastles, I just can't get past the Hollowtech tips. The turnoff is it just seems like more for brand identification than actual tech. Which is a shame since the MX88/9 by all accounts are a great alternative for my Monster 88 -- at least prior versions, maybe not this year. The Kastle logo is cool and can stand alone without the gumdrops.
 

dbostedo

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The turnoff is it just seems like more for brand identification than actual tech.
Well what's wrong with that? If it's a change from something useful or new, into just the signature style, why is that a problem? It's not a drawback in performance or making the skis worse in some way, right? Or are you saying it is?
 
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James

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Hey at least there’s not a hole in the tip. :ogcool:

Who cares if it’s a gimmik? Hell their touring windows now glow in the dark! Could be useful or annoying.
The Mx have been tip flappers at speed since the beginning. But even that wasn’t that bad, unless you spent lots of time in the flap zone.
 

tomahawkins

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Well what's wrong with that? If it's a change from something useful or new, into just the signature style, why is that a problem? It's not a drawback in performance or making the skis worse in some way, right? Or are you saying it is?

Well, maybe. MX are not park skis; they are meant to go fast on edge, so swing weight is not critical. In fact removing weight from the tip can have a destabilizing effect, so Hollowtech seems somewhat contradictory to their marketed style of skiing.

Gimmicks are fine to sell skis to the masses, but at the higher price points, those with fewer gimmicks and stellar reviews I find more appealing. Trying to convince my wallet I need an Augment AM88.
 

James

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Hollowtech seems somewhat contradictory to their marketed style of skiing.
Virtually every race ski brand has some sort of tip system. Rossi varies their metal with the Cascade tip, then that honeycomb tip on freeride skis. All are lightening, plus making them torsionally softer so they release when wanted.
Fischer puts a hole in slaloms. In the mid 70’s they did it on speed skis.
Kastle has the toilet bowl, I mean Hollow tech.
There used to be a Volant which made all their skis with a stainless steel cap. That’s weird.
 

TheArchitect

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For all the people jumping off the Kastle bandwagon you can send your old skis to me. I added my 5th pair this past season and will demo the new FX96 Ti next season hoping Kastle reclaimed some of the magic I find in my FX94's. I demo'd the various versions of the FX 95 and 96 the last few years but they weren't for me. I didn't think that meant the brand wasn't making good skis still; just that the construction/shape of that particular model didn't work for me.

I have the 2012 MX88, 2019 MX74 and 2020 MX84 (yet to ski this one). The 88 and 74 are separated by 7 years but ski damn near identically for this skier with main difference being how much quicker the 74 is edge-to-edge (duh). I can't speak for the rest of their line, at least not from a point of expertise, but I feel pretty confident in saying the MX line is still as awesome as ever.

I WANT to jump on the Stockli bandwagon if for no other reason than wanting to hang with the cool kids. I even demo'd a pair of the SC's a few years ago but didn't fall in love. I'm sticking with the "sinking ship" that is Kastle until the bitter end (or they actually do start to suck).
 
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