Is your equipment helping or hindering your Fore/Aft balance?

bud heishman

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Let's examine the sagittal plane of motion which affects our fore/aft balance!

Do you struggle with finding fore/aft balance in your turns? If the rear spine of your boot was removed could you still ski?

Many skiers struggle with this area in their skiing career. In the beginning this "back seat" condition could have it's roots in fear or a higher than optimal anxiety level. If this is the only issue it will be solved by gaining confidence in turning and/or staying on easier terrain and gaining confidence with skiing that terrain faster before moving to steeper terrain. HOWEVER, if the issue originates in poorly aligned or balanced equipment no amount of technique instruction or skiing on easier terrain will cause any significant improvement in fore/aft balance.

Let's break it down to help you understand how a good boot fitter assesses and corrects this plane of alignment. There are four parameters on this plane that need to be assessed and "coordinated". I say coordinated because you can not necessarily just change one of the four parameters and optimize performance. There is a methodology followed that gets the best result.

1)First assess dorsiflexion range of motion. Why, because matching this range of motion to the boots ramp angle and forward lean angles to arrive at a workable "net forward lean" angle (forward cuff lean - ramp angle of boot board = net forward lean ex: 15-4=11 degrees net angle) is a major key to a balanced stance. You can do a quick assessment on yourself by sitting in a chair that allows you to create a 90/90/90 relationship between your feet & lower leg, your lower leg & thighs, your thighs and torso. Then in bare feet lift or dorsiflex your ankle. If you can't lift your forefoot off the floor you have zero dorsiflexion. If you can lift your forefoot 3" off the floor you have hyper mobile flexion. This is measured from the fifth metatarsal head to the floor and keeping the foot in neutral rather than everted to the outside. It is also relative to the length of the foot (short vs. long foot). Unless you have access to a digital level you can use the finger method. If you have an average length foot, between 1 and 2 fingers gap between the floor and fifth met is about average range. OK let's say you have lower than average RoM what do you do now?.. Well you may need to open up that "net forward lean" angle inside your boots. This can be done with a heel lift on the boot board under the liner and/or decreasing the forward lean of the cuff by removing any spoiler shim located between the liner and boot spine.

What difference does it make? Assuming your boots fit snugly in the forefoot and instep area so that any vertical motion is eliminated, the foot must have the ability to press firmly against the boot ceiling in order to aid balance. If the skier's range of motion is 15 degrees and the boot's net forward lean is 16 degrees, this skier loses the ability to effectively use dorsiflexion to pull their shins into the boot tongues relegating the skier to press the calf against the rear spine of boot to regain balance. We need to reserve some RoM to serve this purpose in order to optimize balance.

What if the ankle has hyper mobility? If the net forward lean of a boot is 15 degrees and a skier has 20 degrees of dorsiflexion they will get pressure to the front of the ski through resistance from the tongue before they can feel pressure under the ball of the forefoot because the achilles tendon needs to be stretched a bit to leverage pressure to the ball of the foot. If the shin hits the tongues resistance before pressure is transferred to the ball of the foot, they are skiing more out of the cuff of the boot than the sole of the foot or a simultaneous resistance from shin and ball of foot. I want to feel a simultaneous distribution. Closing the ankle joint with a higher net forward lean will close the ankle and stretch the achilles a bit allowing the skier to feel a more simultaneous pressure distribution between forefoot and tongue.

2) Step two is to assess the lower leg angle with boots on and clicked into bindings. NOTE: Once step one is assessed and optimized we DO NOT CHANGE THE NET FORWARD LEAN AGAIN. This means when we assess and adjust the lower leg angle it is only done OUTSIDE the boots. Whether that is done with shims placed under the bindings or lifter plates screwed onto boot soles. With the skier standing on the flat level floor clicked into the bindings with boots buckle snuggly, they should stand "cuff neutral" which means to match the boots cuff angle with slight shin pressure against the tongues and feet side by side. Observed from the side view we look to see where the knees plumb over the ski. Ideally my starting point in the shop is to get the knees to plumb over the tip of the boot toe. If they plumb over the toe dam or first buckle, I want to increase the delta angle by adding shims under the heel via lifter plate on boot or under bindings. Conversely, if they plumb over the binding toe piece I want to decrease the delta by shimming either under the boot toe with lifter plates or shim under the binding toe piece. Ultimately this is tested while skiing because the body will automatically go where it needs to go to balance. By experimenting with 3mm temporary shims on the slope we can dial in where the skier feels the best then make the permanent adjustments in shop. Ideally on snow, I am looking for parallel angles between the shins and the spine. If the lower legs are too vertical the skier will demonstrate bent over more at the waist to compensate and have difficulty flexing ankles. If the lower leg angle is too steep the skier will ski with a more vertical spine and be unable to pressure the front of the ski at the top of their turns. When we find optimal the skier will feel slight pressure of shins against the tongues at top of turns and be able to easily pressure shovels to initiate during edge engagement.

3) Step three is to assess binding mount position on skis and adjust forward or back as needed. This is difficult if the ski's binding are not easily adjustable like a system binding or a demo track binding. (Note: I prefer to mount demo track bindings on fatter skis as I can easily change the skiing characteristics for powder vs. hard snow. Any ski will float better in powder if the bindings are moved toward tail a bit to eliminate the need to "sit back" to keep the tips from diving into the snow.) Moving the binding toward the tails will move the sweet spot of ski in front of the base of support and require a bit of forward bias in weight distribution to find the sweet spot. Conversely, moving the binding forward on the ski moves the sweet spot back and the stance will need to move more aft to be over the sweet spot. A good example is to watch a park n pipe skier go by on the slopes and notice their neutral stance. Since their skis are "center mounted" to optimize spins and skiing switch, the sweet spot of the ski is under their heels so they demonstrate that "Keep on Truckin'" stance with hands by their sides because they are actually centering their mass over the skis sweet spot. By simply moving their binding AFT a couple centimeters on their skis, their body position would adjust to a more normal stance. Move them farther aft and their stance would show a more forward tilt of their body to compensate to be over the ski's sweet spot.

By following this chronological order we can get the skier in their optimal position over their skis to balance most efficiently. This becomes their "detent" position from which to move in and out of as they wish to affect the skis and balance. IMO getting this plane of motion dialed in is the most important of the three planes of motion yet is often misunderstood and overlooked. GET'R DONE!
 
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jimtransition

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Thanks for the insight.

I made some changes to my fore aft set up a few seasons back and I feel like it improved my skiing. I have 5mm heel lifts in both my race and touring boots. The biggest change was an increased range of movement, it allowed me to flex deeper without having to fold at the waist.

Interestingly when I ski my race boots on some skis (ones mounted more centrally/with shift bindings), the forward lean is too aggressive I end up feeling the back of the boots too much, on flatter race bindings and skis they are great though.

Another assessment I find useful (and what Reilly used when setting up my boots) is looking at how a skier squats with boots on, if they have to flex at the waist to get their hips low (like me), heel lifts can help them maintain a more upright upper body.

I think you confused the binding mount section, park skiers would not want to move their bindings any further forward.

I will say I don't think skiing with pressure on the front of the boot the whole time is desirable, people stuck on the front are generally static and struggle achieving higher angles.
 

Chris V.

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Another assessment I find useful (and what Reilly used when setting up my boots) is looking at how a skier squats with boots on, if they have to flex at the waist to get their hips low (like me), heel lifts can help them maintain a more upright upper body.
That's a real good one. And a prominent example of the benefits of looking at a skier in more than one posture, and looking at how the skier MOVES, to properly assess alignment.
 

Chris V.

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Bud, thank you for this contribution. It's my impression that fore-aft alignment is what's most commonly grossly out of whack with skiers, and simplest to fix so as to provide the skier an immediate big improvement in ability to use the equipment effectively. Would you agree? Lateral alignment fixes and tweaking footbeds can be very important, too, of course, but it's the fore-aft problems that really jump out.

If I may venture to add just one point--if a skier is seen to be in the back seat, it doesn't necessarily mean that the skier needs equipment adjusted to give a greater shin angle. It could be just the opposite. If it's too much, to the point that the skier is collapsing forward, the skier may compensate by sitting back and bracing against the boot spines--lacking any other option. Which goes to show that the final diagnosis of such matters is best left to the experts.
 

James

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What if the ankle has hyper mobility? If the net forward lean of a boot is 15 degrees and a skier has 20 degrees of dorsiflexion they will get pressure to the front of the ski through resistance from the tongue before they can feel pressure under the ball of the forefoot because the achilles tendon needs to be stretched a bit to leverage pressure to the ball of the foot. If the shin hits the tongues resistance before pressure is transferred to the ball of the foot, they are skiing more out of the cuff of the boot than the sole of the foot or a simultaneous resistance from shin and ball of foot. I want to feel a simultaneous distribution. Closing the ankle joint with a higher net forward lean will close the ankle and stretch the achilles a bit allowing the skier to feel a more simultaneous pressure distribution between forefoot and tongue.
I don’t get the achilles part. You hit the tongue, so why is it necessary to stretch the achilles?
Seems to me, pressure on foot is most influenced by where the center of mass is above the foot?
In that vein, how do you account for femur to tibia length size? Long femurs with upright boots they’ll probably be too far back, no?

If I may venture to add just one point--if a skier is seen to be in the back seat, it doesn't necessarily mean that the skier needs equipment adjusted to give a greater shin angle. It could be just the opposite. If it's too much, to the point that the skier is collapsing forward, the skier may compensate by sitting back and bracing against the boot spines--lacking any other option.
Experienced near this, except I didn’t “brace against the boot spines”. I tried to go a shell size down, boots still didn’t have enough room length wise. So I think what happened is even unconsciously, I’d keep the shins way forward, so toes came off the front of the boot. To compensate, I dropped the hips back, killing quads in like a ridiculously short time.
 

AmyPJ

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Let's examine the sagittal plane of motion which affects our fore/aft balance!

Do you struggle with finding fore/aft balance in your turns? If the rear spine of your boot was removed could you still ski?

Many skiers struggle with this area in their skiing career. In the beginning this "back seat" condition could have it's roots in fear or a higher than optimal anxiety level. If this is the only issue it will be solved by gaining confidence in turning and/or staying on easier terrain and gaining confidence with skiing that terrain faster before moving to steeper terrain. HOWEVER, if the issue originates in poorly aligned or balanced equipment no amount of technique instruction or skiing on easier terrain will cause any significant improvement in fore/aft balance.

Let's break it down to help you understand how a good boot fitter assesses and corrects this plane of alignment. There are four parameters on this plane that need to be assessed and "coordinated". I say coordinated because you can not necessarily just change one of the four parameters and optimize performance. There is a methodology followed that gets the best result.

1)First assess dorsiflexion range of motion. Why, because matching this range of motion to the boots ramp angle and forward lean angles to arrive at a workable "net forward lean" angle (forward cuff lean - ramp angle of boot board = net forward lean ex: 15-4=11 degrees net angle) is a major key to a balanced stance. You can do a quick assessment on yourself by sitting in a chair that allows you to create a 90/90/90 relationship between your feet & lower leg, your lower leg & thighs, your thighs and torso. Then in bare feet lift or dorsiflex your ankle. If you can't lift your forefoot off the floor you have zero dorsiflexion. If you can lift your forefoot 3" off the floor you have hyper mobile flexion. This is measured from the fifth metatarsal head to the floor and keeping the foot in neutral rather than everted to the outside. It is also relative to the length of the foot (short vs. long foot). Unless you have access to a digital level you can use the finger method. If you have an average length foot, between 1 and 2 fingers gap between the floor and fifth met is about average range. OK let's say you have lower than average RoM what do you do now?.. Well you may need to open up that "net forward lean" angle inside your boots. This can be done with a heel lift on the boot board under the liner and/or decreasing the forward lean of the cuff by removing any spoiler shim located between the liner and boot spine.

What difference does it make? Assuming your boots fit snugly in the forefoot and instep area so that any vertical motion is eliminated, the foot must have the ability to press firmly against the boot ceiling in order to aid balance. If the skier's range of motion is 15 degrees and the boot's net forward lean is 16 degrees, this skier loses the ability to effectively use dorsiflexion to pull their shins into the boot tongues relegating the skier to press the calf against the rear spine of boot to regain balance. We need to reserve some RoM to serve this purpose in order to optimize balance.

What if the ankle has hyper mobility? If the net forward lean of a boot is 15 degrees and a skier has 20 degrees of dorsiflexion they will get pressure to the front of the ski through resistance from the tongue before they can feel pressure under the ball of the forefoot because the achilles tendon needs to be stretched a bit to leverage pressure to the ball of the foot. If the shin hits the tongues resistance before pressure is transferred to the ball of the foot, they are skiing more out of the cuff of the boot than the sole of the foot or a simultaneous resistance from shin and ball of foot. I want to feel a simultaneous distribution. Closing the ankle joint with a higher net forward lean will close the ankle and stretch the achilles a bit allowing the skier to feel a more simultaneous pressure distribution between forefoot and tongue.

2) Step two is to assess the lower leg angle with boots on and clicked into bindings. NOTE: Once step one is assessed and optimized we DO NOT CHANGE THE NET FORWARD LEAN AGAIN. This means when we assess and adjust the lower leg angle it is only done OUTSIDE the boots. Whether that is done with shims placed under the bindings or lifter plates screwed onto boot soles. With the skier standing on the flat level floor clicked into the bindings with boots buckle snuggly, they should stand "cuff neutral" which means to match the boots cuff angle with slight shin pressure against the tongues and feet side by side. Observed from the side view we look to see where the knees plumb over the ski. Ideally my starting point in the shop is to get the knees to plumb over the tip of the boot toe. If they plumb over the toe dam or first buckle, I want to increase the delta angle by adding shims under the heel via lifter plate on boot or under bindings. Conversely, if they plumb over the binding toe piece I want to decrease the delta by shimming either under the boot toe with lifter plates or shim under the binding toe piece. Ultimately this is tested while skiing because the body will automatically go where it needs to go to balance. By experimenting with 3mm temporary shims on the slope we can dial in where the skier feels the best then make the permanent adjustments in shop. Ideally on snow, I am looking for parallel angles between the shins and the spine. If the lower legs are too vertical the skier will demonstrate bent over more at the waist to compensate and have difficulty flexing ankles. If the lower leg angle is too steep the skier will ski with a more vertical spine and be unable to pressure the front of the ski at the top of their turns. When we find optimal the skier will feel slight pressure of shins against the tongues at top of turns and be able to easily pressure shovels to initiate during edge engagement.

3) Step three is to assess binding mount position on skis and adjust forward or back as needed. This is difficult if the ski's binding are not easily adjustable like a system binding or a demo track binding. (Note: I prefer to mount demo track bindings on fatter skis as I can easily change the skiing characteristics for powder vs. hard snow. Any ski will float better in powder if the bindings are moved toward tail a bit to eliminate the need to "sit back" to keep the tips from diving into the snow.) Moving the binding toward the tails will move the sweet spot of ski in front of the base of support and require a bit of forward bias in weight distribution to find the sweet spot. Conversely, moving the binding forward on the ski moves the sweet spot back and the stance will need to move more aft to be over the sweet spot. A good example is to watch a park n pipe skier go by on the slopes and notice their neutral stance. Since their skis are "center mounted" to optimize spins and skiing switch, the sweet spot of the ski is under their heels so they demonstrate that "Keep on Truckin'" stance with hands by their sides because they are actually centering their mass over the skis sweet spot. By simply moving their binding forward a couple centimeters on their skis, their body position would adjust to a more normal stance. Move them farther aft and their stance would show a more forward tilt of their body to compensate to be over the ski's sweet spot.

By following this chronological order we can get the skier in their optimal position over their skis to balance most efficiently. This becomes their "detent" position from which to move in and out of as they wish to affect the skis and balance. IMO getting this plane of motion dialed in is the most important of the three planes of motion yet is often misunderstood and overlooked. GET'R DONE!
I really need to pay you a visit. If Tahoe has a good snow year, a trip west is in order.
 

Philpug

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One of the bigger contributors to this problem is three words "I've always used..." Be it boot or binding, the one consistancy in the ski industry is inconsistancy. If you were in a Lange boot years ago, the newer upright stance changed dramatically creating a completely different stance thus skiing experience, the same can be said about many other boots. The biggest incosistancy is with delta of bindings and that is not just from brand to brand but model to model and in some cases within a model line, with one of the main culprits being addressed this year with the Tyrolia Attack 11 falling into line with the rest of the Attack collection.

One of the biggest changes in binding delta was the introduction of GripWalk (ISO 23223) and MNC/AT ( ISO 9523) adaptability of toe designs allowing them to be adjustable for these different toe lugs. Where this also is a lot more prevalent is when you get away from reference boot sizes (285-315mm) but specifically with smaller BSL's. If you see our 2022 comparisons for each brand, we included toe and heel height for each binding.
 

AmyPJ

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One of the bigger contributors to this problem is three words "I've always used..." Be it boot or binding, the one consistancy in the ski industry is inconsistancy. If you were in a Lange boot years ago, the newer upright stance changed dramatically creating a completely different stance thus skiing experience, the same can be said about many other boots. The biggest incosistancy is with delta of bindings and that is not just from brand to brand but model to model and in some cases within a model line, with one of the main culprits being addressed this year with the Tyrolia Attack 11 falling into line with the rest of the Attack collection.

One of the biggest changes in binding delta was the introduction of GripWalk (ISO 23223) and MNC/AT ( ISO 9523) adaptability of toe designs allowing them to be adjustable for these different toe lugs. Where this also is a lot more prevalent is when you get away from reference boot sizes (285-315mm) but specifically with smaller BSL's. If you see our 2022 comparisons for each brand, we included toe and heel height for each binding.
Tell me more. Right now, I feel like the only binding out there that is about 3mm higher in the heel than toe is the Warden 13, which is spendy this year. Flat doesn't work well for me, and more than about 3mm delta also doesn't work well. Ironically, my S Force Fever with the system Salomon binding has about 3mm difference and they feel about perfect.
 
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bud heishman

bud heishman

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Thanks for the insight.

I made some changes to my fore aft set up a few seasons back and I feel like it improved my skiing. I have 5mm heel lifts in both my race and touring boots. The biggest change was an increased range of movement, it allowed me to flex deeper without having to fold at the waist.

Interestingly when I ski my race boots on some skis (ones mounted more centrally/with shift bindings), the forward lean is too aggressive I end up feeling the back of the boots too much, on flatter race bindings and skis they are great though.

Another assessment I find useful (and what Reilly used when setting up my boots) is looking at how a skier squats with boots on, if they have to flex at the waist to get their hips low (like me), heel lifts can help them maintain a more upright upper body.

I think you confused the binding mount section, park skiers would not want to move their bindings any further forward.

I will say I don't think skiing with pressure on the front of the boot the whole time is desirable, people stuck on the front are generally static and struggle achieving higher angles.
You must have limited dorsiflexion to incorporate a 5mm lift. You may find that with the need of a heel lift inside the boot to increase ramp, you may also like going the other way externally by gas pedalling the boot or toe piece. Worth experimenting with a 3mm shim between boot toe and binding to see.
Regarding park n pipe skiers, I didn't suggest they move their bindings any farther forward of center mount just drawing a comparison in stance changes presented when bindings are center mounted vs. a regular mount vs. a powder mount. Changing the mount position on the same ski through this range will present different stances from the skier.
Regarding shin pressure, I did not suggest that a skier ski with shin pressure the whole time. I would suggest that as my feet are moving through the finish phase and edge change section of a turn where my feet move ahead of my hips, I am dorsiflexing to press down on my heels and keep shin pressure. As I engage edges at the top of the new turn I am plantar flexing to drive the tips into the snow. Your experience many vary but I actively, though many times subtly, move pressure under my foot from ball, arch, heel. It is a proactive balancing tactic rather than reactive.
If I may venture to add just one point--if a skier is seen to be in the back seat, it doesn't necessarily mean that the skier needs equipment adjusted to give a greater shin angle. It could be just the opposite. If it's too much, to the point that the skier is collapsing forward, the skier may compensate by sitting back and bracing against the boot spines--lacking any other option. Which goes to show that the final diagnosis of such matters is best left to the experts.
agreed! Never suggested this! in fact it is counter intuitive. Increasing shin angle moves the hips back and decreasing the shin angle moves the hips forward. As I stated the goal is to see the skier pass by with parallel shin and spine angles. You will notice during flexion and extension these angles remain relatively parallel. Rule out equipment impediments before beating your head against the wall trying to find balance with technique changes. Your body will naturally go where it needs to go to balance which is why it is important to test dynamically.
I don’t get the achilles part. You hit the tongue, so why is it necessary to stretch the achilles?
Seems to me, pressure on foot is most influenced by where the center of mass is above the foot?
In that vein, how do you account for femur to tibia length size? Long femurs with upright boots they’ll probably be too far back, no?
Sure the skier will "hit the tongue" yet not feel significant pressure beneath the ball of the foot. When we get the net forward lean correct the skier feels simultaneous pressure in both areas. Note: Many times a hypermobile ankle needs the net forward lean angle increased (ankle closed) more, which consequently creates a steep lower leg angle which then needs to be gas pedalled externally to get the proper alignment for optimum balance. This is why I say the four parameters on the sagittal plane need to be coordinated. We can't neccessarily make one change without considering the other parameters in finding optimum.
 
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jimtransition

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You must have limited dorsiflexion to incorporate a 5mm lift. You may find that with the need of a heel lift inside the boot to increase ramp, you may also like going the other way externally by gas pedalling the boot or toe piece. Worth experimenting with a 3mm shim between boot toe and binding to see.
Regarding park n pipe skiers, I didn't suggest they move their bindings any farther forward of center mount just drawing a comparison in stance changes presented when bindings are center mounted vs. a regular mount vs. a powder mount. Changing the mount position on the same ski through this range will present different stances from the skier.
Regarding shin pressure, I did not suggest that a skier ski with shin pressure the whole time. I would suggest that as my feet are moving through the finish phase and edge change section of a turn where my feet move ahead of my hips, I am dorsiflexing to press down on my heels and keep shin pressure. As I engage edges at the top of the new turn I am plantar flexing to drive the tips into the snow. Your experience many vary but I actively though many times subtly move pressure under my foot from ball, arch, heel. It is a proactive balancing tactic rather than reactive.

No I can't dorsiflex much, and I am quite tall with skinny calfs so the heel lifts and spoilers seem to work well. Will try gas pedals sometime.

Fair enough regarding the shin pressure, your opening question of 'If the rear spine of your boot was removed could you still ski' did make it sound like using the back of the boot is a negative thing though.

Probably I am misunderstanding what you are saying, I don't see how moving an already centremounted ski binding even further forward would result in a normal stance, seems like their stance would have to adjust aft to find the sweet spot of the ski.
By simply moving their binding forward a couple centimeters on their skis, their body position would adjust to a more normal stance.
 
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bud heishman

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Probably I am misunderstanding what you are saying, I don't see how moving an already centremounted ski binding even further forward would result in a normal stance, seems like their stance would have to adjust aft to find the sweet spot of the ski.
Yes we may have miscomunicated on this one? Moving the binding back moves the sweet spot of ski forward under the feet, thus changing skier stance. Have you ever watch a kid on center mounted park skis try to ski powder? Not good...
 

Rod9301

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You must have limited dorsiflexion to incorporate a 5mm lift. You may find that with the need of a heel lift inside the boot to increase ramp, you may also like going the other way externally by gas pedalling the boot or toe piece. Worth experimenting with a 3mm shim between boot toe and binding to see.
Regarding park n pipe skiers, I didn't suggest they move their bindings any farther forward of center mount just drawing a comparison in stance changes presented when bindings are center mounted vs. a regular mount vs. a powder mount. Changing the mount position on the same ski through this range will present different stances from the skier.
Regarding shin pressure, I did not suggest that a skier ski with shin pressure the whole time. I would suggest that as my feet are moving through the finish phase and edge change section of a turn where my feet move ahead of my hips, I am dorsiflexing to press down on my heels and keep shin pressure. As I engage edges at the top of the new turn I am plantar flexing to drive the tips into the snow. Your experience many vary but I actively, though many times subtly, move pressure under my foot from ball, arch, heel. It is a proactive balancing tactic rather than reactive.

agreed! Never suggested this! in fact it is counter intuitive. Increasing shin angle moves the hips back and decreasing the shin angle moves the hips forward. As I stated the goal is to see the skier pass by with parallel shin and spine angles. You will notice during flexion and extension these angles remain relatively parallel. Rule out equipment impediments before beating your head against the wall trying to find balance with technique changes. Your body will naturally go where it needs to go to balance which is why it is important to test dynamically.

Sure the skier will "hit the tongue" yet not feel significant pressure beneath the ball of the foot. When we get the net forward lean correct the skier feels simultaneous pressure in both areas. Note: Many times a hypermobile ankle needs the net forward lean angle increased (ankle closed) more, which consequently creates a steep lower leg angle which then needs to be gas pedalled externally to get the proper alignment for optimum balance. This is why I say the four parameters on the sagittal plane need to be coordinated. We can't neccessarily make one change without considering the other parameters in finding optimum.
True,. But the weight should be under the arch, not under the ball of the foot.

You can have the weight under the arch and still pressure the tongue.
 

LiquidFeet

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A skier can stand with the body's weight at the spot directly under the tibia, the back of the arch/front of the heel, and still pressure the tongue in a way that levers the shovel down against the snow. Just move the CoM forward in front of the boot toe. Ball-of-foot pressure will be there, but not dominant. Under-pressuring the tail is less likely.
 
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Rod9301

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A skier can stand with the body's weight at the spot directly under the tibia, the back of the arch/front of the heel, and still pressure the tongue in a way that levers the shovel down against the snow. Just move the CoM forward in front of the boot toe. Ball-of-foot pressure will be there, but not dominant. Under-pressuring the tail is less l

absolutely correct, under the tibia
 
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bud heishman

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True,. But the weight should be under the arch, not under the ball of the foot.

You can have the weight under the arch and still pressure the tongue.
I want to use my whole foot and pass through the arch but don't try to stay in one spot.

Try linking a bunch of quick short swing turns REMAINING centered over your arches. You will notice you get out of balance a bit forward or back and keep REACTING TO IMBALANCE to get back centered.

Now, try the same turns and work your foot under your CoM: ball, arch, heel through each turn start on the ball finish on the heel. When I say finish on the heel. I don't mean lever against the spine of the boot with your hips back. I mean dorsiflex to push your heels down in the boot and pulling up on your forefoot. This doesn't have to be a gross movement. I think you will find you can link a long series of short turns remaining in dynamic balance the whole way by being PROACTIVE TO BALANCE.
 
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bud heishman

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Instructor
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Posts
497
Location
Tahoe
Boot issues were discussed last night in a Zoom meeting with Sam, Technica's women 2 women ambassador and the CSIA WIS group. Very informative and I'm amazed at the number of instructors that know squat about their equipment.
Trying to change that, one battle at a time! ;)
 

LiquidFeet

lurking
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
5,010
Location
New England
I want to use my whole foot and pass through the arch but don't try to stay in one spot.

Try linking a bunch of quick short swing turns REMAINING centered over your arches. You will notice you get out of balance a bit forward or back and keep REACTING TO IMBALANCE to get back centered.

Now, try the same turns and work your foot under your CoM: ball, arch, heel through each turn start on the ball finish on the heel. When I say finish on the heel. I don't mean lever against the spine of the boot with your hips back. I mean dorsiflex to push your heels down in the boot and pulling up on your forefoot. This doesn't have to be a gross movement. I think you will find you can link a long series of short turns remaining in dynamic balance the whole way by being PROACTIVE TO BALANCE.
... and then there's that. Yes!
I can't wait to get back on snow. Haven't been in my boots since Feb of 2020.
 

Rod9301

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Posts
1,673
I want to use my whole foot and pass through the arch but don't try to stay in one spot.

Try linking a bunch of quick short swing turns REMAINING centered over your arches. You will notice you get out of balance a bit forward or back and keep REACTING TO IMBALANCE to get back centered.

Now, try the same turns and work your foot under your CoM: ball, arch, heel through each turn start on the ball finish on the heel. When I say finish on the heel. I don't mean lever against the spine of the boot with your hips back. I mean dorsiflex to push your heels down in the boot and pulling up on your forefoot. This doesn't have to be a gross movement. I think you will find you can link a long series of short turns remaining in dynamic balance the whole way by being PROACTIVE TO BALANCE.
That's fair, i was trying to simplify it.

I was reacting to" pressure the ball of the foot"

A lot of people believe that's the default position.
 

MissySki

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Posts
108
Location
MA
Boot issues were discussed last night in a Zoom meeting with Sam, Technica's women 2 women ambassador and the CSIA WIS group. Very informative and I'm amazed at the number of instructors that know squat about their equipment.

ohh any chance it was recorded? I’d love to see something like that, especially just having gotten new Technica boots.
 
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