Is your equipment helping or hindering your Fore/Aft balance?

[JESinstr]

I want to use my whole foot and pass through the arch but don't try to stay in one spot.

Try linking a bunch of quick short swing turns REMAINING centered over your arches. You will notice you get out of balance a bit forward or back and keep REACTING TO IMBALANCE to get back centered.

Now, try the same turns and work your foot under your CoM: ball, arch, heel through each turn start on the ball finish on the heel. When I say finish on the heel. I don't mean lever against the spine of the boot with your hips back. I mean dorsiflex to push your heels down in the boot and pulling up on your forefoot. This doesn't have to be a gross movement. I think you will find you can link a long series of short turns remaining in dynamic balance the whole way by being PROACTIVE TO BALANCE.

Absolutely and that is why I try to describe the through the arch philosophy in a dynamic way as an arch supported by it's two pillars, the ball of the foot and the front of the heel. Move to an fro but never past as to abandon the arch.

 

[LiquidFeet]

That's fair, i was trying to simplify it.

I was reacting to" pressure the ball of the foot"

A lot of people believe that's the default position.

Yes they do.

Don't abandon the front of the heel/back of the arch. Weight back there is essential to keep the tail doing its job.

 

[bud heishman]

Yes they do.

Don't abandon the front of the heel/back of the arch. Weight back there is essential to keep the tail doing its job.

Then what is essential to keep the tips working for you?....

There are two way to get pressure to the heel.
1)lean back against the boot spine moving the CoM aft,
2)dorsiflex the ankle (assuming the boot is fit snuggly and has proper net forward lean for ankle RoM)

Which is better?
why?

 

[Jilly]

@MissySki yes it was.

 

[bud heishman]

Absolutely and that is why I try to describe the through the arch philosophy in a dynamic way as an arch supported by it's two pillars, the ball of the foot and the front of the heel. Move to an fro but never past as to abandon the arch.

How would one "abandon the arch"?...

 

[bud heishman]

I think you confused the binding mount section, park skiers would not want to move their bindings any further forward.

OOOPS! You were correct! I went back and reread my post and corrected my mistake. thanks.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Then what is essential to keep the tips working for you?....

There are two way to get pressure to the heel.
1)lean back against the boot spine moving the CoM aft,
2)dorsiflex the ankle (assuming the boot is fit snuggly and has proper net forward lean for ankle RoM)

Which is better?
why?

Bud you must have missed my previous posts. Dorsiflex to maintain shin-tongue contact, hover upper body over front of skis. That takes care of the shovel. Keep heel firmly seated on the bottom of the boot. That takes care of the tail. With this stance, there can be two major pressure points inside the boot that control fore-aft pressure to the ski:
--the tongue of the boot
--the back of the arch-front of the heel
Move CoM fore-aft to fine tune pressure distribution from tip to tail as needed. To do this effectively, one needs to make sure that the ROM of dorsiflexion matches the boot's forward lean. Thus the need for good bootfitters who attend to this issue.

I do not promote standing with most of the weight on the ball-of-foot. It's much better to have weight on the tongue of the boot instead. Standing on the ball-of-foot lightens the heel, and that loosens the tail of the ski so that the tail can be easily pivoted around the tip (not good).

Do not lean against the back of the cuff. Well, maybe if you're doing dolphin turns.

I assume you agree???

 

[JESinstr]

How would one "abandon the arch"?...

By going into the back seat.

 

[oldschoolskier]

@bud heishman you are one of those I constantly follow because of your insight and well worded wisdom.

I might suggest that equipment plays a role in your balance, but proper instruction can have a even more important role, rendering the equipment portion to be a null factor.

You eluded ot it in your comments about balance (or lack of it) in beginners. Like walking as infants our muscles need to learn the balance reactions, so do we as skiers (for something that we do not do constantly during all our waking hours).

So correct equipment makes it easier, yet at the same time hinders true understand of the balance reaction.

So I propose that balance is a learned skill and should not be a supplement skill.

 

[crgildart]

All anybody needs to do to figure out if they rely too much on their equipment for their fore/aft position/awareness is to spend a couple hours on snow blades. You'll find out very quickly where your fore aft strength/weaknesses are. Same goes for a tele rig to some degree, just not as much as snwolerblades..

 

[bud heishman]

I might suggest that equipment plays a role in your balance, but proper instruction can have a even more important role, rendering the equipment portion to be a null factor.

So correct equipment makes it easier, yet at the same time hinders true understand of the balance reaction.

i’m gonna have to strongly disagree here oldschooler. What instruction can do is help the skier learn how to compensate for the impediments caused by poor alignment and boot fit. INSTRUCTION WILL NEVER OVERCOME IMPEDIMENTS CAUSED BY POOR ALIGNMENT. The body will do what it has to do to find balance.

 

[oldschoolskier]

i’m gonna have to strongly disagree here oldschooler. What instruction can do is help the skier learn how to compensate for the impediments caused by poor alignment and boot fit. INSTRUCTION WILL NEVER OVERCOME IMPEDIMENTS CAUSED BY POOR ALIGNMENT. The body will do what it has to do to find balance.

Then same said individuals would have a difficult time walking, for the most part that is few and far between (true exceptions). Teach balance first, tweak if required with equipment second.

Not disagreeing that there are exceptions (in some cases ones that truely need help up front), but far less than we assume.

 

[Philpug]

INSTRUCTION WILL NEVER OVERCOME IMPEDIMENTS CAUSED BY POOR ALIGNMENT.

But, the instructor needs to be able to see that there is an issue with the alignment first. Years ago I was working with an examiner at a local resort who was helping a group of instructors get their Level II. One of the students hit an impass and could not for the life of her complete a drill. As we were watching the video, as a bootfitter I could see she was out of alignment, the examiner didn't seee it. I used what I had around to get her (roughly) to where she needed to be and she was then able to do the drill. Her tears of frustration turned into tears of joy.

One of the reasons I liked bootfitting on the mountain for the above reason. When I was at Northstar, there were a few intrstructors that understood alignment and it's imprtance in the students progression. It was not uncommon for one of them to either bring or send a student in for me to check them out for alignment. I could usually see if there was an issue by doing an assessment. In most cases it was the boot.

I don't profess to being an instructor, I am not good at teaching, but I am pretty good at observing. When I have someone on the boot bench, just haviing the flex into a boot I can usually see if we might have alignment issues. If I see a stance that is askew, "I would say, I bet you are having trouble with turning left?" then I would usually get a reply "How did you know?", thats when we usually start the alignment conversation.

I have been asking MasterFit for years to offer a module for instructors, not so much for them to become bootfitters but to help them see if there are boot issues that are impeding the students progression. I think even a basic understanding of alignment assessment should be required for getting the Level III. How to think that this is not a significant key to the progression process is mind blowing.

 

[bud heishman]

Then same said individuals would have a difficult time walking, for the most part that is few and far between (true exceptions). Teach balance first, tweak if required with equipment second.

Not disagreeing that there are exceptions (in some cases ones that truely need help up front), but far less than we assume.

Same said individuals are not encumbered by hard plastic boots impeding their movements to balance while walking. Put a plaster cast on one foot and they will still be able to balance and walk but they will have a noticeable impediment requiring compensatory movements to balance. i would venture to say that MOST skiers’ fore aft balance is NOT optimized. If you want to run what you brung, go for it. If you care to optimize your skiing performance you can not ignore this. You have the choice.

 

[bud heishman]

But, the instructor needs to be able to see that there is an issue with the alignment first. Years ago I was working with an examiner at a local resort who was helping a group of instructors get their Level II. One of the students hit an impass and could not for the life of her complete a drill. As we were watching the video, as a bootfitter I could see she was out of alignment, the examiner didn't seee it. I used what I had around to get her (roughly) to where she needed to be and she was then able to do the drill. Her tears of frustration turned into tears of joy.

One of the reasons I liked bootfitting on the mountain for the above reason. When I was at Northstar, there were a few intrstructors that understood alignment and it's imprtance in the students progression. It was not uncommon for one of them to either bring or send a student in for me to check them out for alignment. I could usually see if there was an issue by doing an assessment. In most cases it was the boot.

I don't profess to being an instructor, I am not good at teaching, but I am pretty good at observing. When I have someone on the boot bench, just haviing the flex into a boot I can usually see if we might have alignment issues. If I see a stance that is askew, "I would say, I bet you are having trouble with turning left?" then I would usually get a reply "How did you know?", thats when we usually start the alignment conversation.

I have been asking MasterFit for years to offer a module for instructors, not so much for them to become bootfitters but to help them see if there are boot issues that are impeding the students progression. I think even a basic understanding of alignment assessment should be required for getting the Level III. How to think that this is not a significant key to the progression process is mind blowing.

AMEN. This has been my goal for years. So many either play ostrich or they profess to know it all.

Currently, I am working on an on-snow/classroom night course to be offered to level II and above instructors and coaches Next season. This will be one night per week, 5 or 6 session program covering, recognizing signs of misalignment and differentiating it from technique, psychological,and physical issues. We will ski through nine identically prepared skis in 3 pods. One pod will be CANTED +2, -2 and neutral. The next pod will be + 4mm, -4mm and neutral BINDING DELTA. The third pod will be BINDING PLACEMENT, forward mounted on one pair, aft positioned on one pair and neutral on the other. Attendees will rotate through each pod while observing each other to see the effects and compensations required to ski and balance. they will experience the sensations themselves and notice how they must adapt their skiing stances to compensate. after we ski through all the skis we go inside and debrief, drawing conclusions and understanding. This is just the first session!

I have offered this clinic in the past at PSIA events to rave reviews so I know the impact of skiers seeing and skiing through these parameters is an awakening!

The subsequent sessions will work through the five skiing fundamentals relating them to the equipment parameters which affect each fundamental. By completion of this course attendees will have an enlightened understanding of this relationship between equipment angles and performance. They will understand the 10 parameters that need to be assessed and optimized for best uncompromized performance. Now, like Phil eluded to, they will be better able to watch a skier and identify the accurate cause of what the skier is displaying, rather than putting it all in the technique bucket.

I too have suggested to Masterfit instructors an instructor/coach focused course! Would love to see it and even contribute.

 

[bud heishman]

FWIW. I don’t believe balance can be taught. Balance is an innate skill. I believe balance can be improved by constantly challenging balance..

i remember a certain participant here on this forum and I training together for D team try outs and he constantly did things to challenge his balance. He rode unicycles, in line skated, bongo boarded, slack lined. Etc.. We would ski a run named Sunshine at Mammoth which directly faced the afternoon sun. It had huge moguls which softened in the afternoon to slushy. We however would ski them first runs in the morning when they were frozen chicken heads to challenge our balance and recovery.

want to improve your balance? First remove all impediments caused by your equipment and challenge your balance constantly!

 

[oldschoolskier]

Same said individuals are not encumbered by hard plastic boots impeding their movements to balance while walking. Put a plaster cast on one foot and they will still be able to balance and walk but they will have a noticeable impediment requiring compensatory movements to balance. i would venture to say that MOST skiers’ fore aft balance is NOT optimized. If you want to run what you brung, go for it. If you care to optimize your skiing performance you can not ignore this. You have the choice.

You are right they don't impeding them walking (normal people), on skis it becomes teaching you muscles and sense of balance to adapt to those conditions (skateboarding, surfing, windsurfing, ride a bike, unicycle, spring line, the list goes on all have impedments). They are all different and have different hinderances, just like skiing.

So for the masses, learn balance for the application, for those with pre-defined difficulties a set up to correct is a help. For the rest for utmost performance a final tweak to help.

What I've learned in several sports is basic fundamentals (balance is the common one in all) is required, tweak second. Tweak first a lot of bad habits get masked until it gets hard to fix.

Don't get me wrong here, my view is on when it should be done, not if it should be done.

 

[bud heishman]

My question to you then is How would you teach balancing? Please give examples.

 

[Aquila]

I don't profess to being an instructor, I am not good at teaching, but I am pretty good at observing. When I have someone on the boot bench, just haviing the flex into a boot I can usually see if we might have alignment issues. If I see a stance that is askew, "I would say, I bet you are having trouble with turning left?" then I would usually get a reply "How did you know?", thats when we usually start the alignment conversation.

This is pretty interesting to me. My own ski technique is pretty lopsided (I'm sure everyone has a stronger side) and I still have a long way to go with technique, but I've persistently had more trouble with my right-outside-leg turns, as per instructors/examiners/watching videos of myself/etc. Last time I was at my bootfitter, he was chatting about the new setup his shop has for doing canting alignment, eyeballed me standing in and flexing in my boots, and commented that just at a glance, my right boot could probably do with some alignment/canting adjustments. It's definitely my problem leg so I'd believe it!

We're going to look at the canting properly when I get new boots at the start of next season.

 

[bbinder]

I think of balance as something that can be considered innate. However, you can teach yourself to be more aware of balance and there are various exercises to help one maximize one's innate balance.