Is your equipment helping or hindering your Fore/Aft balance?

[crgildart]

There's another simple way to gauge how much you rely on your equipment for balance and fore/aft alignment. Try skiing with your boots unbuckled. Take notes on whether you're more sketchy about going over the handlebars or falling backwards... when turning. Try it on greens at first then try it on something a little more challenging.

 

[Philpug]

I think of balance as something that can be considered innate.

Balance is like having a sense of humor or common sence, I agree innate.

 

[Philpug]

Try skiing with your boots unbuckled. Take notes on whether you're more sketchy about going over the handlebars or falling backwards... when turning. Try it on greens at first then try it on something a little more challenging.

I hear a lot of instuctors use this drill. In most cases they are in 150 flex race boots that unbuckled are stiffer and more supportive than many of the students' 100 flex boots buckled.

 

[Wilhelmson]

So. If we get our boot angles dialed in should we use the same binding model on most of our skis to eliminate the variable? Maybe powder, race or carvers would benefit from.a different angle? What does this soup to nuts modification cost?

 

[Wendy]

My only problem with the alignment/balance issue is that it can be skeletal or muscular.

If it’s a muscular problem, the issue might be corrected by exercises: strength, yoga, etc. A knee problem might actually be caused by a hip flexor issue. Stretching might help with poor dorsiflexion and strengthening hip flexors might help with the lower leg angle. I’m emphasizing “might” because I realize it’s not gospel and I do not intend to negate anything in @bud heishman ’s very informative post. I’m just interested in what experienced bootfitters think about this.

I agree with @Philpug instructors should learn to somehow identify equipment problems. However, how to solve that problem should be left to an experienced fitter. I’ve had well-meaning instructors in the past try to help solve an equipment problem I had, and they unwittingly made the problem worse.

 

[Crank]

So. If we get our boot angles dialed in should we use the same binding model on most of our skis to eliminate the variable? Maybe powder, race or carvers would benefit from.a different angle? What does this soup to nuts modification cost?

I think if you can dial in your fore and aft balance on one rig you should be able to do it with others. It used to throw me off to ski with a heavy pack until I got used to it and now can adjust easily.

I have been lucky to not ever have alignment issues and if I did I long since learned to compensate so fixing said issues would probably just mess me up.

 

[bud heishman]

I think of balance as something that can be considered innate. However, you can teach yourself to be more aware of balance and there are various exercises to help one maximize one's innate balance.

Hi Binder! Hope you and Marcia are doing well. My question is can balance be taught really? Or, can we simply find ways to challenge balance which will improve balance? i don’t believe I can tell a student to do this or that and they will instantly have better balance. There is no progression for better balance. Our body will do what they need to do to find dynamic balance. Our equipment can either facilitate or impede that effort.

So. If we get our boot angles dialed in should we use the same binding model on most of our skis to eliminate the variable? Maybe powder, race or carvers would benefit from.a different angle? What does this soup to nuts modification cost?

Ideally YES. If that isn’t possible, take note what your ideal stand height differential is and recreate it on all your skis using shims under bindings. Racers will tend to use slightly different set ups for each event SL,GS,SG.. Cost will vary dependent on what is needed. Plated and routered boot lugs probably $80-100, shims under bindings maybe $40 for a shim kit you can install yourself. Well worth the benefits

 

[bud heishman]

I think if you can dial in your fore and aft balance on one rig you should be able to do it with others. It used to throw me off to ski with a heavy pack until I got used to it and now can adjust easily.

I have been lucky to not ever have alignment issues and if I did I long since learned to compensate so fixing said issues would probably just mess me up.

Unfortunately this opinion is shared by many. If you are content where you are at, no need to do anything. Taking away any impediments to balance can only help your skiing not hurt it.

 

[bud heishman]

My only problem with the alignment/balance issue is that it can be skeletal or muscular.

If it’s a muscular problem, the issue might be corrected by exercises: strength, yoga, etc. A knee problem might actually be caused by a hip flexor issue. Stretching might help with poor dorsiflexion and strengthening hip flexors might help with the lower leg angle. I’m emphasizing “might” because I realize it’s not gospel and I do not intend to negate anything in @bud heishman ’s very informative post. I’m just interested in what experienced bootfitters think about this.

I agree with @Philpug instructors should learn to somehow identify equipment problems. However, how to solve that problem should be left to an experienced fitter. I’ve had well-meaning instructors in the past try to help solve an equipment problem I had, and they unwittingly made the problem worse.

Wendy you bring up a good point. it is possible to change alignment with physio, however this does take time and commitment. My position on this is get equipment balance for where your body is now and then reassess each season to see if it needs to be tweaked a bit for changing morphology. Unfortunately, there are many instructors and shop employees who are just beginning to learn about all this and don’t know what they don’t know. We as skiers can learn enough to experiment ourselves and educate ourselves in this area then work with a shop tech to make the mods permanent.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I spent several years getting the fore/aft alignment dialed in. Until I did, I had lots of difficulty with slow speed wedge turns, wedge christies etc.

It was very frustrating because all the practice in the world could not overcome the boot/binding issues. As soon as I got the right boots and the right binding set up, my performance improved dramatically.

 

[Crank]

Unfortunately this opinion is shared by many. If you are content where you are at, no need to do anything. Taking away any impediments to balance can only help your skiing not hurt it.

I am pretty certain I have no such impediments.

Is there a ball park figure or percentage of skiers who do have balance issues.

Should alignment issues not be spotted by boot fitters when fitting boots?

 

[bbinder]

Hi Binder! Hope you and Marcia are doing well. My question is can balance be taught really? Or, can we simply find ways to challenge balance which will improve balance? i don’t believe I can tell a student to do this or that and they will instantly have better balance. There is no progression for better balance. Our body will do what they need to do to find dynamic balance. Our equipment can either facilitate or impede that effort.

We are well! I think that we are agreeing on this. I think that balance is innate and cannot be taught. We can, however, teach body awareness in order to improve our sense of balance. IMO these are separate things. Some people can hop up on a balance beam and immediately walk back and forth with no problems; some people need to train and develop cues so that they can trust what their bodies are telling them.

 

[Rod9301]

This is pretty interesting to me. My own ski technique is pretty lopsided (I'm sure everyone has a stronger side) and I still have a long way to go with technique, but I've persistently had more trouble with my right-outside-leg turns, as per instructors/examiners/watching videos of myself/etc. Last time I was at my bootfitter, he was chatting about the new setup his shop has for doing canting alignment, eyeballed me standing in and flexing in my boots, and commented that just at a glance, my right boot could probably do with some alignment/canting adjustments. It's definitely my problem leg so I'd believe it!

We're going to look at the canting properly when I get new boots at the start of next season.

How was he doing the canting?

 

[Mike King]

I'm reading "The Language of Coaching" by Nick Winkelman, the former head coach of the NFL Combine, the current head coach of the Irish Rugby League, and a guy who holds a Ph.D. in Motor Control Learning Theory. I highly recommend this book to everyone -- it may likely blow your mind and possibly change the way you think about coaching, what you coach, and how you coach.

My question to you then is How would you teach balancing? Please give examples.

One of my early take-aways is something he ascribed to a mentor of his, where performance is dictated by power (including strength), pattern (coordination of the joints), and position (mobility and stability).

We coach pattern through description of what we want the joints to do, but in reality, the athlete (client) has to learn the coordination themselves. The movements are too complex for us to simply describe the manipulation of a single joint -- the whole body is involved, and the athlete needs to learn to coordinate not just the issue at hand (too little flex at the waist), but also all of the other compensation that must be made (less dorsiflexion, more flexion in the knee, projection of the sternum, etc.).

So how do we coach pattern? We describe the outcome, we provide indicators that the athlete can use to self assess, we provide drills to practice, we create an environment where the athlete can focus.

And if we can coach pattern, then I will argue we can coach balance. We can assign drills such as one footed skiing, white pass turns, outside ski turns, etc. Our job is to present the client with cues to improve their balance and appropriately challenging practice to improve it.

Mike

 

[Seldomski]

And if we can coach pattern, then I will argue we can coach balance. We can assign drills such as one footed skiing, white pass turns, outside ski turns, etc. Our job is to present the client with cues to improve their balance and appropriately challenging practice to improve it

Agree, I have improved my balance on skis by practicing specific drills to enhance coordination. Balance is one of the senses, so saying a "teacher can improve my sense of smell" with coaching sounds silly. But if you want to become a master sommelier, this is exactly what has to happen. You have to develop a very keen sense of smell. There are ways to do that as well with focused practice.

There are also those with very keen noses to begin with that will find this sense easier to develop than others.

Same with art - focused practice in a studio trains the sense of vision. The instructor guides the practice, he/she doesn't directly make you see better by waving a wand or saying one thing.

 

[Aquila]

How was he doing the canting?

From what I can understand (and I'm not an expert), they use some sort of tool with laser pointers to assess alignment and then fit canting wedges to the base/soles of the boots. I couldn't tell you how it differs from just adjusting the cuff canting screws though!

In fact, having made that attempt at an explanation, I've found it on their website anyway.

 

[Philpug]

From what I can understand (and I'm not an expert), they use some sort of tool with laser pointers to assess alignment and then fit canting wedges to the base/soles of the boots. I couldn't tell you how it differs from just adjusting the cuff canting screws though!

In fact, having made that attempt at an explanation, I've found it on their website anyway.

View attachment 144026

Cuff alignment is not canting. I Cuff alignment helps match the cuff angle to the legg shape. n fact some boots actually have "Canting" printed by the cuff hinge but that is incorrect. But if you are going to be assessed for canting (which is done under the boot), the cuff alignment should be checked first. Over simple goal for proper canting is to get the center if the knee over the center of the shell, which is usually that seem that is in the front of the boot. The rule of thumb is that ever centimeter that the knew is off left or right is about a degree of canting needed. The tools needs to check this could be as simple as a plumb bob and something to fill under the boot to adjsut the angle. There are many tools such as the laser in yoru image that can be used to do the smee along with some homemade devices that will also do the same thing and give same results. Where it gets more complicated is doing the work on the boot, that is where you need some specialty tools like a table router, possibly a jointer (depending on the type of boot) and other tools to finish the job as mentioned in your image.

 

[Mike King]

Cuff alignment is not canting. I Cuff alignment helps match the cuff angle to the legg shape. n fact some boots actually have "Canting" printed by the cuff hinge but that is incorrect. But if you are going to be assessed for canting (which is done under the boot), the cuff alignment should be checked first. Over simple goal for proper canting is to get the center if the knee over the center of the shell, which is usually that seem that is in the front of the boot. The rule of thumb is that ever centimeter that the knew is off left or right is about a degree of canting needed. The tools needs to check this could be as simple as a plumb bob and something to fill under the boot to adjsut the angle. There are many tools such as the laser in yoru image that can be used to do the smee along with some homemade devices that will also do the same thing and give same results. Where it gets more complicated is doing the work on the boot, that is where you need some specialty tools like a table router, possibly a jointer (depending on the type of boot) and other tools to finish the job as mentioned in your image.

Phil, Jim Lindsey does cuff adjustment after canting. Wouldn't you first want to get the athlete in a balanced position (e.g. canted), then adjust the cuff to match the angle of the lower leg?

 

[Philpug]

Phil, Jim Lindsey does cuff adjustment after canting. Wouldn't you first want to get the athlete in a balanced position (e.g. canted), then adjust the cuff to match the angle of the lower leg?

I was taught to work with the natural stance before adjusting. My gut is 95% of the end results will be the same.

 

[Steve]

As far as I'm concerned it's not a science, no matter how confident any bootfitter, or Examiner is (not to mention someone who's both) it's just luck if you get someone aligned correctly.