Jackson Hole Steep and Deep camp

[SpikeDog]

Did the S&D camp in 2002 (group 6 out of 12). I would hope that I could be a little higher if I took it again, but better equipment isn't canceling out old legs like it used to anymore. To appease the wife, the 2002 camp was the first time I ever wore a helmet.

The key to low vis in Rendezvous Bowl is to go where the trees are. My favorite run of all JHMR - East side of the bowl. Just boogie past Corbets and head down from there. Of course there is a cliff band in the middle, and don't splat on the cat track at the bottom. I've wrecked on that flat spot several times, as well as taking out buddies behind me who don't see it either.

 

[OddTurn]

Thank you for the great summary !
Last year someone (not me) taped their camp:

 

[KevinF]

Thank you for the great summary !
Last year someone (not me) taped their camp:

I think those are "official" JHMR videos, or at least the first S&D camp of the year is tagged as the "go pro" version. See the camp page here: https://www.jacksonhole.com/steep-ski-camp.html or:

I'm expecting them to post this year's videos as well; the January 7th to 10th camp was right when Jackson Hole was getting crushed with snow. Could be sweet footage.

 

[Decreed_It]

Swift. Silent. Deep. is probably our top fave ski movie.

Thanks for the write up - def on my bucket list to do some time.

<goes off to google pivot slips>

 

[Coach13]

JH’s site says they have an intermediate version of the S&D camp. I wonder what that would be like? Makes me consider..,

 

[KevinF]

JH’s site says they have an intermediate version of the S&D camp. I wonder what that would be like? Makes me consider..,

This was my second visit to Jackson; the previous was during the last gathering there where conditions were fairly "solid" so I didn't get a good feel for the place.

Me and steep entrances don't necessarily get along (that whole "heights" thing), so I definitely had some jitters going in. New England's season so far has been "poor", so my only previous skiing this year was basically on icy groomers.

One thing that really impressed me about Jackson is how much terrain they have for various ability levels. Jackson is mind-boggingly huge. I think one thing our coach did wonderfully was keeping us on terrain that we could safely handle and ski "well". One of the students in my group was chomping at wanting to take a shot at the "chutes" -- Alta or Tower 3 -- and coach was pretty much like "yeah, that's not happening".

All that said... it's a fun camp, fun crew, fun mountain -- but Jackson instructors don't have a lock on the secrets of skiing well. Erik (my local coach) and Will (Jackson coach) basically gave me the exact same feedback. I think one of the great values of S&D is four full days under the watchful eye of the same coach, something that's hard to get anywhere else.

 

[TheArchitect]

This was my second visit to Jackson; the previous was during the last gathering there where conditions were fairly "solid" so I didn't get a good feel for the place.

Me and steep entrances don't necessarily get along (that whole "heights" thing), so I definitely had some jitters going in. New England's season so far has been "poor", so my only previous skiing this year was basically on icy groomers.

One thing that really impressed me about Jackson is how much terrain they have for various ability levels. Jackson is mind-boggingly huge. I think one thing our coach did wonderfully was keeping us on terrain that we could safely handle and ski "well". One of the students in my group was chomping at wanting to take a shot at the "chutes" -- Alta or Tower 3 -- and coach was pretty much like "yeah, that's not happening".

All that said... it's a fun camp, fun crew, fun mountain -- but Jackson instructors don't have a lock on the secrets of skiing well. Erik (my local coach) and Will (Jackson coach) basically gave me the exact same feedback. I think one of the great values of S&D is four full days under the watchful eye of the same coach, something that's hard to get anywhere else.

And where did you stand on skiing Alta 1 and Tower 3? You're definitely good enough to ski those well.

 

[Slim]

Really fun write up @KevinF , and you look smooth in that movie!
also useful for people considering doing one of these.

 

[Coach13]

I will say in looking at JH’s site at lessons and camps, they look pretty affordable compared to other major resorts.

 

[AmyPJ]

Great write up, Kevin! And great skiing, too!

I'd like a "not so steep but deep if we're lucky" camp.

 

[KevinF]

And where did you stand on skiing Alta 1 and Tower 3? You're definitely good enough to ski those well.

I would have skied Tower 3, but just looking at it -- it didn't look as "interesting" as the Hobacks and I remember Bob Peters mentioning how wild Saratoga Bowl is in his JH guide, so I wanted to see that for sure.

Alta One looked like it needed some more snow; it was pretty rocky in the choke.

Obviously at a place like Jackson you're not going to come close to skiing everything you wanted to in four or five days. I was happy with what we hit; I got five days (four in camp and one on my own) of pretty nice trees and bumps with the right amount of challenge.

 

[Crank]

With the name Steep and Deep I am surprised they did not coach you on some harder terrain like Tower 3 and various chutes. I thought the camp was more about getting comfortable skiing hairball terrain than perfecting your mogul skills?

Hobacks can be fun, but Tower 3 is more interesting in that a fall in the wrong spot would not be at all advisable.

 

[TPJ]

You did well to get “Silly Willie” for your S&D coach. I have a ton of respect for him and his judgement. There was a reason why he chose not to use Tower 3 or the Alta Chutes for your group. Oddly enough I‘be been teaching a lot of expert level lessons this year and haven’t gotten around to Tower 3 or Alta 1 this season. I have taken students into terrain that I consider harder and more interesting than those two obvious and over skied lines. I actually skied with Paul and his daughter for two days before camp started.

 

[KevinF]

With the name Steep and Deep I am surprised they did not coach you on some harder terrain like Tower 3 and various chutes. I thought the camp was more about getting comfortable skiing hairball terrain than perfecting your mogul skills?

Hobacks can be fun, but Tower 3 is more interesting in that a fall in the wrong spot would not be at all advisable.

Emphasis added by me.

Coach Will's focus was on getting early balance / pressure on your new outside ski and how that influences your ability to make a controlled short turn, etc. "Feel your arches", etc. There are times that I feel I can do that pretty well; there are other times... not so much. I think we can agree that the being able to pull off a short turn on demand is a vital skill as the slope angle increases (unless you're in "TGR film" mode...).

I'm sure there were reasons why Coach Will wasn't expressing any interest in taking us chute-ing. Whether it was my skiing or somebody else's -- that's for him to know and us to wonder.

It's worth pointing out though -- don't go to S&D camp expecting that you're going to get four days of hop turns and "chute-ing", as there's a decent chance that it's not going to happen. I understand that to some that's a deal breaker; to me, it's not.

 

[Noodler]

Coach Will's focus was on getting early balance / pressure on your new outside ski and how that influences your ability to make a controlled short turn, etc. "Feel your arches", etc. There are times that I feel I can do that pretty well; there are other times... not so much. I think we can agree that the being able to pull off a short turn on demand is a vital skill as the slope angle increases (unless you're in "TGR film" mode...).

What movements are you using in "getting early balance/pressure" on the new outside ski?

 

[mdf]

Kevin, i think you were undergrouped and under-challenged.
I wonder if there has been a change of directors and philosophy.

My first S&D I was a way worse skier than you are now, and we skied several of the easier double blacks. My second one I was still worse than you are now and we skied Tower 3, Expert Chutes, Alta 2 and 3.

 

[nunyabiz]

Perhaps the conditions weren’t great for taking that group into that terrain. If an instructor is going to make a mistake I’m sure they’d prefer it be on the side of caution.

 

[TheArchitect]

What movements are you using in "getting early balance/pressure" on the new outside ski?

I'm interested as well.

 

[KevinF]

What movements are you using in "getting early balance/pressure" on the new outside ski?

I'm interested as well.

Relax the old outside leg.

 

[Noodler]

Relax the old outside leg.

When the slope gets more "steep and deep" are you finding that "relaxing" is enough to get the job done? Or have you developed a sense that relaxing is not quite active enough in more difficult terrain and that a more active retraction of the old stance leg is required?

I know that these are "leading" questions, but in the end we'll get to the point I hope we can make together.