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mike_m

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Nov 13, 2015
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Summit County, Colorado
Thought you all might like this. I just got back from the Rookie Academy in New Zealand. As many of you know, that is a ski training program that offers programs for instructors from novice through advanced during July and August at Treble Cone in New Zealand.

The advanced course (August) attracts many of the top coaches from around the world. I've been going there for four years now and my coaches have included Jonathan Ballou (PSIA demo team; ski school manager at Aspen); JF Beaulieu (Director, Mont-Sainte-Anne ski school, CSIA Interski demo team member); Reilly McGlashan (Australian Interski Team, Projected Productions ski videos); Tom Gellie (Australian Interski team in both alpine and telemark/expert in biomechanics and kinesiology); and other coaches of similar quality.

In a few days, I'll be posting a summation of some of the focuses that figured prominently during this summer session, but, in the meantime, I thought you might enjoy some video entertainment. Following is an indoor presentation by Jonathan Ballou that summarizes (in his own special style!) what actually allows a ski to work efficiently while you ride it.

It's in two parts. Just paste each title in order into your header and play. Hope you enjoy!

Best!
Mike


Part 1


https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=VEZqRnp3dXdreDZBUDQzcG9weXFGcWEwbzJYRHN3


Part 2

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=akNOUEppZmdRS2RZbXlrQjdZdzlBS3M4Nnpjak9B
 
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mike_m

mike_m

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Nope, no Barry.

So, when are you going to do one of the Rookie courses?! You'd love skiing with JF (he's from your neck of the woods)!
 

Jilly

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Belleville, Ontario,/ Mont Tremblant, Quebec
Nope, no Barry.

So, when are you going to do one of the Rookie courses?! You'd love skiing with JF (he's from your neck of the woods)!

I know Barry went down. I can ski with JF in December. But that camp is on my bucket list. Gotta to quit working in the summer to go...or win the lottery.
 

geepers

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Wanaka, New Zealand
I do have one question re the ski physics presented.

The tip of a shaped ski has an inbuilt steering angle that points slightly inside the turn. So, just like a car being steered by the front wheels, an engaged tip will tend to pull the ski into the turn. (CoM slightly forward at start of turn.) Makes sense.

The tail has an inbuilt steering angle that points slightly out of the turn. However the tail is behind the CoM. So if we engage the tail (CoM coming slightly back) isn't this similar to a vehicle with the steering wheels at the back and won't that also cause the ski to tighten into the turn?

In the vid JB contends that engaging the tail takes us out of the turn. Having driven enough supermarket trolleys with rear wheel steering I'm not so sure...

Thoughts?
 

Lifer

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"Thought you all might like this. I just got back from the Rookie Academy in New Zealand."

Thanks Mike, but no, I did not like it. Very weak presentation. Forgettable.
 

Doby Man

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I do have one question re the ski physics presented.

The tip of a shaped ski has an inbuilt steering angle that points slightly inside the turn. So, just like a car being steered by the front wheels, an engaged tip will tend to pull the ski into the turn. (CoM slightly forward at start of turn.) Makes sense.

The tail has an inbuilt steering angle that points slightly out of the turn. However the tail is behind the CoM. So if we engage the tail (CoM coming slightly back) isn't this similar to a vehicle with the steering wheels at the back and won't that also cause the ski to tighten into the turn?

In the vid JB contends that engaging the tail takes us out of the turn. Having driven enough supermarket trolleys with rear wheel steering I'm not so sure...

Thoughts?

I noticed that also. It is simply not true that bending the tail moves you in the other direction than the shovel. Both phase one pressure on the shovel and phase three pressure on the tail contribute to moving in the same direction across the fall line and a status of turning that does not change until the tail is deactivated by flattening. I think he may have lost everybody at that point in a presentation that, while otherwise much appreciated, really was hurting in a number of ways. Though, if I were to choose having the correct fundamentals, technique and tactics between verbal presentations and skiing, I would go the way Ballou obviously went. He is such a clean skier that I always think that he must somehow be cheating. I suspect that he may have had mass removal in his gut to fit a gyroscope that keeps him from effing up. As soon as I get to meet him, I am going to quickly pull his shirt up to check for corresponding surgical scars. I just hope he doesn't get the wrong idea and think I am some kind of weirdo.
 

Skisailor

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I noticed that also. It is simply not true that bending the tail moves you in the other direction than the shovel. Both phase one pressure on the shovel and phase three pressure on the tail contribute to moving in the same direction across the fall line and a status of turning that does not change until the tail is deactivated by flattening. I think he may have lost everybody at that point in a presentation that, while otherwise much appreciated, really was hurting in a number of ways. Though, if I were to choose having the correct fundamentals, technique and tactics between verbal presentations and skiing, I would go the way Ballou obviously went. He is such a clean skier that I always think that he must somehow be cheating. I suspect that he may have had mass removal in his gut to fit a gyroscope that keeps him from effing up. As soon as I get to meet him, I am going to quickly pull his shirt up to check for corresponding surgical scars. I just hope he doesn't get the wrong idea and think I am some kind of weirdo.

OMG @geepers and @Doby Man!!
Thank you!! I noticed the same thing in Ballou's presentation and was like . . .. . Say What ???! Phew.

I had the same thoughts about the tail being behind the CoM . . . and that something has to change - like decreasing the edge angle - to make a
an actual change in the turn status.

It seems to me like he is trying to come up with some new, novel way to explain the desirability of letting the CoM drift back at the end of turns. But this ain't it.

My question is always - what move does he then use to get quickly back forward again to start the new turn? Especially with advocacy of constant dorsiflexion and forward tension in the ankle.
 

markojp

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OMG @geepers and @Doby Man!!

My question is always - what move does he then use to get quickly back forward again to start the new turn? Especially with advocacy of constant dorsiflexion and forward tension in the ankle.

If you can actively dorsiflect the new inside ski above the fall line and bend the forebody of that ski while standing over the new outside ski (sounds impossible and contradictory, but it isn't), then you get to the front of the skis.. both of'em. And a person's rear end isn't usually one's CoM unless you have a very very large one. Flexing in transistion... it's been around since the late 70's in racing... its simply faster than extending, but that doesn't mean extention doesn't have a seat at the tactical table. The image we have of that momentary snapshot of someone like JB in transition doesn't tell us much about the direction of the forces he's managing, but then we'd have to mention physics, and it seems the general consensus here is we can can ski just fine without knowing anything about it, so there you go.... The question is answerable, but it'd be much better to address this when there's snow on the ground and words /ideas can be tested on the hill.
 

markojp

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"Thought you all might like this. I just got back from the Rookie Academy in New Zealand."

Thanks Mike, but no, I did not like it. Very weak presentation. Forgettable.


ahhhhh! Ski instruction forums in the fall.... some things never change. I'd ask you to be more specific as it might help everyone's understanding...but..... anyhow.
 

Skisailor

Laziest Skier on the Mountain
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Bozeman, Montana
If you can actively dorsiflect the new inside ski above the fall line and bend the forebody of that ski while standing over the new outside ski (sounds impossible and contradictory, but it isn't), then you get to the front of the skis.. both of'em. And a person's rear end isn't usually one's CoM unless you have a very very large one. Flexing in transistion... it's been around since the late 70's in racing... its simply faster than extending, but that doesn't mean extention doesn't have a seat at the tactical table. The image we have of that momentary snapshot of someone like JB in transition doesn't tell us much about the direction of the forces he's managing, but then we'd have to mention physics, and it seems the general consensus here is we can can ski just fine without knowing anything about it, so there you go.... The question is answerable, but it'd be much better to address this when there's snow on the ground and words /ideas can be tested on the hill.

Gotcha. My confusion comes from statements and assertions that a state of constant ankle dorsiflexion is advocated. So if that inside ankle is already closed, the movement you describe that should happen above the fall line is not available to help reposition the CoM. Right? What am I missing?
 

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