Kick Turn, "A lost art"

[Steve]

I'm 68, not that flexible and I have no problem doing it. It's tricky at first, but not hard and not as much of a stretch as you think it is. Key is keeping your pole behind you so you don't hit it.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Want to learn to do a kick turn and need motivation, you need the following:

• Old straight 215’s
• Binding set at infinity (once you step in you’re in till someone else releases them)
• Hill that is death one way and sure survival the other
• We point you in the wrong direct and.......

You have great motivation to kick turn. How do think we learned on the old straight skis.

 

[François Pugh]

Looks like a handy skill. My hips and knees hurt just watching the videos demonstrating it though. Not convinced my joints rotate that way.

I feel you. It's one of the first things my dad taught me when I was a small child. It was easier then. It was also easy when I was middle aged, due to being a flexible martial artist. Due to type 2 diabetes and some injuries, I have lost a lot of flexiblility the last few years (working on regaining it), and all I have to say is thank God for 165 cm SL skis . It's a real challenge on my old 208s, let alone 220s.

 

[Carolinacub]

Old straight 215’s

except I did it on 208's

 

[Aquila]

So, I gave this a go on skis, on the snow, but I felt like my hip was going to pop painfully out of its socket so i had to bail out. There was no way I was rotating my leg around that far. Unless I'm doing it very wrong (entirely possible and i don't have a video of my attempt), I'd have to guess that there might be anatomical limitations on this move?

 

[LiquidFeet]

Those perceived anatomical limitations are based on a misconception. Most people can get the ski rotated almost all the way around and down onto the snow, but stop when they hit some resistance they feel at the hip. Then they back the ski out of that hovering position and put it back where it was before, giving up.

They think that their hip will be pulled out of joint if they go any farther. This is the misconception. The fear of messing up the hip is pretty insistent.

If they were to go ahead and put the ski down onto the snow, their body would move over that ski, and their pelvis would rotate with the foot and leg that just settled onto the snow. This eliminates any chance of dislocating the leg at the hip.

At the same time, the other leg, which has been left behind by the moving pelvis, lifts its ski all on its own and starts to rotate to keep up with the rotating hips. It's easy at that point to rotate its ski and set it down in place beside the first ski.

It takes faith to set that ski down the first time. Place your poles in the snow so they help you keep your balance as the hips rotate around.

 

[François Pugh]

Those perceived anatomical limitations are based on a misconception. Most people can get the ski rotated almost all the way around and down onto the snow, but stop when they hit some resistance they feel at the hip. Then they back the ski out of that hovering position and put it back where it was before, giving up.

They think that their hip will be pulled out of joint if they go any farther. This is the misconception. The fear of messing up the hip is pretty insistent.

If they were to go ahead and put the ski down onto the snow, their body would move over that ski, and their pelvis would rotate with the foot and leg that just settled onto the snow. This eliminates any chance of dislocating the leg at the hip.

At the same time, the other leg, which has been left behind by the moving pelvis, lifts its ski all on its own and starts to rotate to keep up with the rotating hips. It's easy at that point to rotate its ski and set it down in place beside the first ski.

It takes faith to set that ski down the first time. Place your poles in the snow so they help you keep your balance as the hips rotate around.

On the other hand, FOR SOME (stubborn) PEOPLE (like me), if your body tells you it will break if you push it further, but you've been told this is a misconception so you push it further, it breaks. I learned this in 1979 trying to get that last bench press in on the third set, but you don't have to take my word for it; you can ask that arm wrestler with the broken arm, or look into Bruce Lee's back injury, or......you get the picture The myth that this is ALWAYS a misconception is what keeps chiropractors and hernia surgeons in business.

 

[ForeverSki]

I’ve never been flexible. All the videos show the feet being turned away from each other more than 90 degrees. I can’t do that. If the uphill skis is on the ground pointed across the fall line, the best the downhill leg can turn is straight down the fall line, with the tip up in the air. Even while just stretching on the floor, I can barely put my legs at 90 degrees to each other.

 

[Mothertucker]

I'd have to guess that there might be anatomical limitations on this move?

For me moreso than you I would think.

 

[LiquidFeet]

OK. Some people are more flexible than others. But some people think they can't do it when they can.

The reason I think this is true about others comes from my personal experience. I may be wrong, though. Every time I do a kick turn for the first time during a new season, my rotated leg tells me it can't do it. Every time. I do it anyway. I put that foot down. It's OK and I don't dislocate my hip or knee or ankle -- because the extra rotation that leg thinks it can't do isn't something it has to do for this to work. The pelvis rotates to relieve the hip joint from getting ripped apart, and that relieves any potential twists that may happen at the knee or ankle. Everything works out OK, with no pain or injury. Thus the misconception.

But yeah, some people are less flexible than others.

 

[Aquila]

I don't even think it's a flexibility thing. For me it feels like a bone structure thing - my femur just can't rotate very far to the outside in the hip socket while standing. I have flexibility in spades but even doing casual ballet as a teen, always had horrible turnout.

Those perceived anatomical limitations are based on a misconception. Most people can get the ski rotated almost all the way around and down onto the snow, but stop when they hit some resistance they feel at the hip. Then they back the ski out of that hovering position and put it back where it was before, giving up.

They think that their hip will be pulled out of joint if they go any farther. This is the misconception. The fear of messing up the hip is pretty insistent.

If they were to go ahead and put the ski down onto the snow, their body would move over that ski, and their pelvis would rotate with the foot and leg that just settled onto the snow. This eliminates any chance of dislocating the leg at the hip.

At the same time, the other leg, which has been left behind by the moving pelvis, lifts its ski all on its own and starts to rotate to keep up with the rotating hips. It's easy at that point to rotate its ski and set it down in place beside the first ski.

It takes faith to set that ski down the first time. Place your poles in the snow so they help you keep your balance as the hips rotate around.

That's useful to hear, though. I probably got my leg around 3/4 of the way around before my hip hit resistance and started hurting. I had my poles behind me as per one of the videos and was leaning back on them (actually i pulled up a video on how to do it and watched it right there on the slopes before trying it). The hip hurt for the next minute after that. It seems like a lot of commitment is needed for this move.

On the flipside, I went to a different ski field over the weekend which has no grooming or snowmaking and attracts a higher number of people who also do backcountry skiing, etc. I saw a lot of people in real life doing kick turns to turn around while just standing around on the slopes, and noticed that some of them can fully place their rotated ski and pause before casually lifting the old ski. I certainly can't do that, but it would be useful to be able to do the version of the movement that @LiquidFeet describes where you keep moving throughout the whole thing and smoothly transition from one ski to the other.

 

[4ster]

When I began teaching skiing it was considered a liability to teach a kick turn. I have taught a multitude of ways to turn around from bullfighter turns to laying down and rolling over (snowboarders love this one) but in 40+ years, never a Kickturn.

Personally, I have used them frequently my whole life and the Kickturn has gotten me out of many sticky situations. And like the OP we grew up doing them on the lawn in the backyard during the preseason.

 

[mister moose]

Kick turn lesson.

Step 1. Do this.

 

[dbostedo]

Kick turn lesson.

Step 1. Do this.

View attachment 111331

I can't even come close to doing that...

 

[pchewn]

Better practice your kickturns before this season starts. It'll be a key survival skill at the bottom of the hill:

Going to the lodge, a guy without a mask is coming right towards you --- KICKTURN -- go the other way.
Deciding at the "Y" which lift to go to. Pointing left, but lift is crowded full of semi-masked skiers --- KICKTURN --use lift on right.

----- etc.

 

[Errand Wolfe]

Because I can not rotate my downhill foot far enough it's almost impossible to keep the tail of my rotated ski off of the front of my uphill ski. I can do them going uphill with skins on because I can take a really wide step but in reality its more like a 3 step turn now I think about it. OK guess this is something to practice this winter.

Someone earlier mentioned a jump turn and that is the way to go if you're capable. It's always been easier for me to jump and do a 180 while standing still than it is to do a kick turn.

 

[SSSdave]

For advanced skiers, there are plenty of steep rocky places with limited turning space where a standing jump turn would be asking for mayhem. During my one day this season, I probably did 3 of them during into the woods breaks. Key is to regularly practice the awkward movement in spots they are easy to do.

 

[Rod9301]

For advanced skiers, there are plenty of steep rocky places with limited turning space where a standing jump turn would be asking for mayhem. During my one day this season, I probably did 3 of them during into the woods breaks. Key is to regularly practice the awkward movement in spots they are easy to do.

If it's steep, over 40 degrees and not powder, kick turns are pretty sketchy.

I think jump turns are safer

 

[SSSdave]

Agreed you are correct, at 80% grade (40d), a jump turn is obviously easier as one immediately upon twisting up skis are away from snow. I should have added below about 60%, thanks.

 

[oldschoolskier]

While a jump turn on a steep pitch is easier, important points are:

1. The amount of vertical space needed. Step turns need less and this can be a life saver.
2. Error factor, step turn can be slow and controlled, jump turns on the other hand can be fast and over compensated which depending on conditions dangerous.
3. Screw up a jump turn you are facing straight down hill on an extremely steep pitch, screw a step turn you are sitting on your butt, sighing in relief as your friend screams flying down the hill after said failed jump turn.

I’ll stick to my assessment, that it is still one of the skills you need to know to be a true advanced skier, knowing when you can use a jump turn and when a step turn is the wisest and safest choice.