• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Killington Race Tune

Guy in Shorts

Tree Psycho
Skier
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Posts
2,168
Location
Killington
Silly question here from a non race guy on tuning. Race guys in my world here at The Beast have their bases set by Peak Performance at 0/3. Since I never see anyone on Skitalk admit to skiing on flat bases what is up? Are we the only place the race tunes skis flat for folks that want that much grip?

IMG_6312.jpg
 

bbbradley

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Posts
782
Location
East Coast
I wouldn't call that a race ski, so the tune isn't a race tune. :P
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
21,907
Location
Behavioral sink
Silly question here from a non race guy on tuning. Race guys in my world here at The Beast have their bases set by Peak Performance at 0/3. Since I never see anyone on Skitalk admit to skiing on flat bases what is up? Are we the only place the race tunes skis flat for folks that want that much grip?

I'm afraid the answer is much more prosaic than you might think.

Shop setup to 0/3 is not the ultimate grip buy, it is actually the cheapskate buy.

The shop doesn't have to do any precision sub-1-degree work - and doesn't have to spend $$$ on keeping its equipment in shape to do sub-1-degree work.

It is trivial for the owner to set a base edge bevel greater than 0 with just hand tools, if they start with 0. Heck, with enough skiing on aggressive snow, the bases begin to bevel themselves.

Fast turnover (no hand work by shop), ultra-precision premium machinery not required -> lower up front expense for the owner.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Guy in Shorts

Guy in Shorts

Tree Psycho
Skier
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Posts
2,168
Location
Killington
I'm afraid the answer is much more prosaic than you might think.

Shop setup to 0/3 is not the ultimate grip buy, it is actually the cheapskate buy.

The shop doesn't have to do any precision sub-1-degree work - and doesn't have to spend $$$ on keeping its equipment in shape to do sub-1-degree work.

It is trivial for the owner to set a base edge bevel greater than 0 with just hand tools, if they start with 0. Heck, with enough skiing on aggressive snow, the bases begin to bevel themselves.

Fast turnover (no hand work by shop), ultra-precision premium machinery not required -> lower up front expense for the owner.
As I suspected it is just some of the charters that I hang out with trying getting a leg up by having super sharp edges.

My buddy hammered on the ski tuners that the .5/3 wasn't sharp enough so they tuned his skis to 0/3 and he was happy. Looks like a win/win for everyone. Ski tuner has to do less work and the skier gets what he wants.

Great answer.
 

KevinF

Gathermeister-New England
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
3,345
Location
New England
As I suspected it is just some of the charters that I hang out with trying getting a leg up by having super sharp edges.

My buddy hammered on the ski tuners that the .5/3 wasn't sharp enough so they tuned his skis to 0/3 and he was happy. Looks like a win/win for everyone. Ski tuner has to do less work and the skier gets what he wants.

Great answer.

"Not sharp enough" is a strange description... Changing from "0.5" to "0" makes the ski incredibly reactive; i.e., that ski will hook up instantly with a zero degree base bevel.

Once the ski is engaged though the side edge angle (which is remained consistent at three degrees) determines how much "grip" you have.

As @cantunamunch said, the base bevel increases over time especially on harder surfaces. A true 0.5 base bevel is hard (IMHO) as that equates to removing little more than steel dust. With a 2mm thick edge, 0.5 degrees is on the order of 0.02mm of steel removed (assuming I remember trig) (y = 2mm * tan(0.5) = 0.02mm).

However, if your friend is happy at 0/3... that's all that really matters. He's the one skiing 'em.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,209
Location
NYC
My buddy hammered on the ski tuners that the .5/3 wasn't sharp enough so they tuned his skis to 0/3 and he was happy. Looks like a win/win for everyone. Ski tuner has to do less work and the skier gets what he wants.

Skiing is more of a head game than most are willing to admit.
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,453
He could’ve gone to 4deg side.
There’s a few people that like a close to zero base edge.
Make sure you’re uphill of where he is.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Guy in Shorts

Guy in Shorts

Tree Psycho
Skier
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Posts
2,168
Location
Killington
The first guy that I ran into having his equipment tuning this way was a master racer traveling to races around the country. He was a big Clyde like me and we shared the same boot size so he would loan/swap skis with me. Ran with over 60 skis in his quiver with a bunch set-up at 0/3. We warned me to keep them on edge and I took his advice. Really figured this is a more common set-up then it appears to be. Guess it is rather a very specific feel embraced by a few.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,630
Location
Maine
Silly question here from a non race guy on tuning. Race guys in my world here at The Beast have their bases set by Peak Performance at 0/3. Since I never see anyone on Skitalk admit to skiing on flat bases what is up? Are we the only place the race tunes skis flat for folks that want that much grip?

View attachment 165763
How old was the youngest racer to espouse the flat base edge thing?
 

Brian Finch

Privateer Skier @ www.SkiWithaGrimRipper.com
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
3,358
Location
Vermont
The base bevel has less to do with sharpness & more to do with how reactive the ski will be.

Folks who dont want to generate a ton of angles or can’t because of hip range of motions restrictions, will do better with lesser base bevel. This way the ski will bite without have the toss em far out from the body. Ppl who ski more with ankles and knees can benefit from a lower base bevel.

Downside is that they will be twitchy & shaky at speed and when/if you get inside the turn.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,630
Location
Maine

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,453
^ That’s good, though it’s probably 10-15 years old. Before they started using power tools on the side edge.
Graham Lonetto ran Edgewise in Stowe.
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
21,907
Location
Behavioral sink
The base bevel has less to do with sharpness & more to do with how reactive the ski will be.

Folks who dont want to generate a ton of angles or can’t because of hip range of motions restrictions, will do better with lesser base bevel. This way the ski will bite without have the toss em far out from the body. Ppl who ski more with ankles and knees can benefit from a lower base bevel.

Downside is that they will be twitchy & shaky at speed and when/if you get inside the turn.

There's a ski width variable in there too - less bevel is more suited for wider skis.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Guy in Shorts

Guy in Shorts

Tree Psycho
Skier
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Posts
2,168
Location
Killington
The base bevel has less to do with sharpness & more to do with how reactive the ski will be.

Folks who dont want to generate a ton of angles or can’t because of hip range of motions restrictions, will do better with lesser base bevel. This way the ski will bite without have the toss em far out from the body. Ppl who ski more with ankles and knees can benefit from a lower base bevel.

Downside is that they will be twitchy & shaky at speed and when/if you get inside the turn.
Pretty sure Brian Finch is spot on that what I am seeing is an aging peer group trading base bevel to make up for lack of hip mobility. Simple answer is often the correct one -The Killington Race Tune can be used by some to help keep them in the game.

Looking forward to making some turns with you and the girls this spring.
 

Henry

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Posts
1,229
Location
Traveling in the great Northwest
".5/3 wasn't sharp enough so they tuned his skis to 0/3"
That isn't sharper. That is more acute. The sharpness of the edge is the radius of the edge microscopically measured in nano meters (billionth of a meter) or micro meters (thousandths of a meter). Or shave a bit off the back of one's thumbnail.
 

Sponsor

Top