Lange/Rossi WC plug liner

[gvisockas]

Hello,
Got my hands on a pair of Rossignol Hero plug boots. Though they're new, the liner feels VERY flimsy.
The heel pocket seems only to consist of lining + outer layer and does not feel like it's going to last. Wrinkles from it being very thin can be seen in the picture as well as traces of poor gluing.
I would expect that to be the case with a slim race liner, but it does not really conform to the foot that good as it has all of its padding situated in the shin/ankle part.

All in all, I'm a bit disappointed. Has anyone had a similar experience with these liners? What replacement would you recommend?

 

[eric100]

I ski with these. They are very comfortable and hold my foot well. With plug boots the conforming to the foot is done at the shell, not based upon a conforming liner. I did have an issue with the liner holding up and Lange covered a replacement under warranty. In addition they sell replacements, unlike regular boots. I ordered spares from my shop.

 

[onenerdykid]

This is what race liners are like. They are thin, quite minimal, & supple, designed to be flexible so they can contour to the foot and extensive shell modifications that are usually made. All liners are made by hand, including the application of glue, so it is common to see gluing marks above the black outsole. In the posted picture, I honestly don't see any quality issues or reasons to think you have a sub-par product. It may not be what you expected or looking for, but that's how race liners are.

 

[gvisockas]

Thank you for your replies! I might have gotten a bit lost with the reaction and forgot to mention two things:
- I have an identical non-plug pair of Rossi Hero 130s, so I could compare them side by side. Strange how different the standard liner feels, it feels immeasurably more substantial than the one for racing (esp. in the ankle area or in materials), but I guess it all makes sense knowing the functional difference. I guess what threw me off the most was the lack of heel-hold by the liner itself.
- I have tried HEAD liquid fit lace up liners. With the liquid the feeling was similar to this- hard to describe exactly, but something similar to a shoe's lining coming down to the heel when the shoes are really worn and the lining is torn and loose, so you can wear the shoe, but the heel is not properly held in the pocket. All in all a fabric race liner felt a bit more contoured than this leather one.

@eric100, do you feel the lining-sliding-down-to-the-heel feeling? Maybe I'm forcing them on a bit- the ankle part seems to be very hard to open up beforehand due to the elastic band there. The laces also seem to be on the shorter side and fall out of the top eyelets.
Do they conform better with time? When I had a chance to try an exact pair of well worn in boots I thought that the heel part is like that due to wear. I would have said it would soon break or tear.

 

[gvisockas]

Funny thing this bootfitting video even has a shot of the liner being all bunched up when worn:

 

[eric100]

Thank you for your replies! I might have gotten a bit lost with the reaction and forgot to mention two things:
- I have an identical non-plug pair of Rossi Hero 130s, so I could compare them side by side. Strange how different the standard liner feels, it feels immeasurably more substantial than the one for racing (esp. in the ankle area or in materials), but I guess it all makes sense knowing the functional difference. I guess what threw me off the most was the lack of heel-hold by the liner itself.
- I have tried HEAD liquid fit lace up liners. With the liquid the feeling was similar to this- hard to describe exactly, but something similar to a shoe's lining coming down to the heel when the shoes are really worn and the lining is torn and loose, so you can wear the shoe, but the heel is not properly held in the pocket. All in all a fabric race liner felt a bit more contoured than this leather one.

@eric100, do you feel the lining-sliding-down-to-the-heel feeling? Maybe I'm forcing them on a bit- the ankle part seems to be very hard to open up beforehand due to the elastic band there. The laces also seem to be on the shorter side and fall out of the top eyelets.
Do they conform better with time? When I had a chance to try an exact pair of well worn in boots I thought that the heel part is like that due to wear. I would have said it would soon break or tear.

I dont feel anything sliding up and down within the liner. I would suggest opening up the laces rather widely on the liner before inserting/removing your foot. The laces usually come out of the top eyelets when opening up the laces fully, but its not a big deal to reinsert them.

 

[KingGrump]

I guess what threw me off the most was the lack of heel-hold by the liner itself.

Depending on your skiing style. Heel hold down can be mostly active (by skier) rather than passive (liner).

 

[Eric267]

Funny thing this bootfitting video even has a shot of the liner being all bunched up when worn:

It’s bunched because he’s standing straight up and the liner is meant to have foreword lean. From my experience it feels odd and bunched standing outside the boot but as soon you sink your foot into the shell and give it a good lean foreword your heal settles and it stretches out. You can feel it pulling from the tongue and back of the cuff. If it still feels off pull up on the tab in back of the liner and lift your heal ever so slightly, sink again to straighten, then buckle

 

[gvisockas]

Thank you all for commenting. Has anyone had success in finding an aftermarket or another brand replacement, in case it does not work out? I reckon @Philpug had some success with a Head liner in a WCR 140.

 

[eric100]

I dont have any experience with aftermarket liners in the plug shell, although I do know Intuition sells a “plug liner”. In my Lange WC plug shell the shell does the heal hold very well, not the liner and there are ways to adjust/grind it to have a customized fit for you.

 

[BLiP]

Maybe I'm forcing them on a bit- the ankle part seems to be very hard to open up beforehand due to the elastic band there.

Perhaps a basic question, but are you putting them on racer style, ie liner on first then into shell?

 

[gvisockas]

Yes, of course. I found it's best to put them on with the tongue widely spread, although I do feel longer laces would be handy.

 

[eric100]

Yes, of course. I found it's best to put them on with the tongue widely spread, although I do feel longer laces would be handy.

I can’t imagine it would be an issue to get some boot or skate laces that are longer. Just count the number of eyelets.

 

[Viking9]

I’ve been thinking of getting the Rossi plug boot only to try and see if my foot will heat up in them or not, being a circulation guy my foot is either going to heat up or not sitting in my living room so I can easily return them.
As an outsider looking in it seems that high end rec boots , the shells are somewhat thin and flexible and the liner is thick and does all the work.
In a plug boot the liner is thin and the shell is thick and does all the work.
My Zipfit liner definitely does all the work in my boot now but the opposite is somewhat intriguing.
That + symbol in the Rossi is also a plus for someone who needs some wiggle room.

 

[Brian Finch]

The Lange / Rossi liner imho is the best of the plug liners - they do tend to be thinner than others & often when more room is needed, racers of other brands will use this option.

I run this in my plugs & my Lupos.

 

[TJP]

You did not say your plug model. Lange and Rossi plug boots are identical and come in models ZC, ZB, ZA and ZJ differing only by flex. I have a 2018 Lange ZC and the stock liners were very uncomfortable for my feet. I am fitting a Zipfit Corsa model liner to these boots. So far the liner is thinner and more comfortable. Personally, I need more cork in the heel pockets to securely hold my feet. I am waiting for Zipfit to resupply their cork refill tubes to make the adjustment. I ski with Zipfits in several other boots as well and highly recommend them. They provide the best and most comfortable heel hold for my feet when properly matched or adjusted for shell volume. They are expensive but are actually a great value as they can last for over a thousand ski days unlike other liners. The Corsa is definitely a thin liner and so requires more shell grinding than say the thicker Gara model fitted into a larger shell. I do most of my race training now with a Zipfit Gara LV fitted to a Fischer 130 plug boot.

 

[gvisockas]

The model is ZJ+

 

[gvisockas]

An update- the more time I spend in these liners and boots, the more I feel how this is a completely different fit from a standard model.
Though the liner locks onto the foot in a standard model, it feels that the support comes mainly from it, not the boot, just as many of you noted.

A bit of a sidestep- do these plugs necessarily have to be ground in order to be punched? I managed to make a few minor punches in the navicular area without grinding. Not sure if it will hold with the boot probably being polyether.

 

[cem]

An update- the more time I spend in these liners and boots, the more I feel how this is a completely different fit from a standard model.
Though the liner locks onto the foot in a standard model, it feels that the support comes mainly from it, not the boot, just as many of you noted.

A bit of a sidestep- do these plugs necessarily have to be ground in order to be punched? I managed to make a few minor punches in the navicular area without grinding. Not sure if it will hold with the boot probably being polyether.

the punch should hold if you got the plastic hot enough and let it cool properly, certain areas i punch certain i grind, some i do both

 

[James]

The advantage of a plug liner is because it’s so thin, it can last longer.
Intuition would be something entirely different. I hated it when I tried it in a plug, had a dead feeling. I guess if you were going to try something else, the (relatively) new Atomics would make the most sense