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Laser AX vs White Out / AM77

PupManS

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Hi Hive Mind:

Strangely I must not be operating the search correctly because much to my surprise I cannot find a direct compare between these two favorites. If so, please direct me to it and delete this thread.

I bought the Laser AX 175 (the first year they did Turtle Shell, I mounted PRDs on them) after demoing in Sun Valley where due to work circumstances I found myself skiing there a lot. I thought (and still do) they were the best one ski quiver for that mountain. Now I moved to Tahoe and I don’t ski them much; mainly as groomer skis (I’ve moved to a set of Jskis Masterblasters as my daily driver when it hasn’t been snowing much, and in general I ski more spring bumps here vs groomers).

They are terrific groomer skis but when used for that purpose I really prefer something with more side cut; growing up on tiny mid Atlantic mountains and doing SL in college I just find that 157-160ish cheater SLs are what I really like to use for serious hardpack and I still find myself taking out my ancient SkiLogik Ullr’s Chariots on groomers as much as the Stocklis (they are a tighter sidecut). So I was planning to sell the Laser AX (and some recent Delta Airlines damage to the bindings made me bring them back front of mind).

I still have some cheater SLs I take out once in a blue moon but was thinking to replace the Laser AX with a set of Whiteouts..a littler turnier, a wider tip, etc. Take advantage of the sale!

So now I complicated my life. I took the Stocklis out the last few days at Alpine (since it’s basically groomer time until lunch at least) and realized I had allowed myself to forget just how good they are….going Warp 11 and hitting little push piles and occasional ruts they are super forgiving and super stable, they still bump very well, and they will basically do anything I ask of them without complaint. So pretty good skis. And I can relax on them a lot more than cheater SLs.

So my question for those on the blossom train….if I trade the Lasers for the Whiteouts……what am I giving up? I will get a little more sidecut, and (if I understand the reviews right) maybe a tiny bit more groomer performance. But nothing’s free in this life….

Also, incidentally, has anyone mounted the WhiteOuts with PRDs? ;) The Speedlocks look lovely but the $$$ wow.

Other stuff in the Quiver:

Atomic Redster S9 160cm
Jskis Masterblaster 181cm
Skilogik Ullr‘s Chariot TT 175 CM (rock skis)
Blizzard Rustler 11 180CM
Praxis Protests 187 cm
 

Philpug

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Both are great skis for sure. The Stockli might be a tad more versatile off piste but IMHO thats where the benefits stop. Like you mentioned the Blossom will give a better on piste experience with it's more traditional shovel. I think the flex is also a little mopre balanced. In my experienced the tune out of the wrapper is better and more consistant with the Blossoms. Value is surely there in that you can get the Blossom and pretty much any binding of choice for just the cost of the Stockli. Lastly, Blossom supports and advertises on SkiTalk so by supporting them, you are suppoting the site. Right now, Blossom is having a loyalty sale HERE
Also, incidentally, has anyone mounted the WhiteOuts with PRDs? ;) The Speedlocks look lovely but the $$$ wow.
PRD's will be a fine binding but you can get the Blolssoms and the Speedlocks for less than the Stockli's with almost any binding.
 

Wendy

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I am one who sold her AX’s and got the AM77 (Whiteout). My version is the SkiTalk Sideral version so different topsheet but same ski.

I find the Blossom to be more compliant: It flexes a tad bit easier while pulling more through the turn than the Stockli. It also has a puppy dog-like bounce of energy out of the turn. For me, it’s a more natural-feeling ski than the AX, though I did love those skis as well. Versatility? Eh, I don’t think they are any less versatile than the AX simply because the Blossom’s flex feels nicer to me. For me it’s easier to control speed when necessary with the Blossoms.

My AX’s were mounted with the Salomon Warden system bindings, while my Blossom’s have Look Pivots on them. Perhaps that makes a tad bit of difference in the flex but I still think the Blossoms feel more supple in uneven terrain. They certainly are a beautiful ski.
 
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PupManS

PupManS

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@Philpug I’m getting there. Two questions…1) does any shop around here actually service VIST bindings? And 2) Is there any way of getting them <$350 with the plate?
 

Philpug

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@Philpug I’m getting there. Two questions…1) does any shop around here actually service VIST bindings? And 2) Is there any way of getting them <$350 with the plate?
Blossom will do the mount, IIRC Start Haus has a jig (as do I). I am not sure what shops local are indemnified with Vist but is it jsut a matter of doing a test and making sure they fall w/in range. As far as the price, I am sure @Blossom will work with your. At $350, they are still less than most plate/binding combos and Look Pivot 15's. ;)
 

ski otter 2

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I agree about the Whiteout being a more natural rebound turner, more fun often, for me.

I own both the AX (in both 175 and 183) and the Whiteouts (in c. 176). Comparing them, they have a very different feel, and I have chosen to emphasize different things with the bindings. (Pivot 18s with the Whiteouts, Tyrolia PRD 12s with the AX 183s, Tyrolia Attack13 AT Demo 12s with the 175s.

I have a buddy who also has the AX 183s (and we have exchanged skis for fun more than once); his have the same AT Demo 12s as I have on the 175s. His 183s and mine ski a bit differently - his more playful, mine more serious and directional. Same year model. Just because of the binding difference.

And I'm not sure I like the binding I selected for the 175, in that particular combination only.

My own preferences, especially in terms of which skis I take out the most, are 1. AX 183 (amazingly smooth and stable charger), 2. Whiteout 176 (cheater ski for upper body separation and great for all mountain uses, both on and off piste), 3. AX 175 (faster turning and easier turning, less tiring on the right day, really great in a small bit of fresh snow - that slows down it's very fast rebound just enough, for me).

In my experience, the PRD emphasizes/brings out a directional, on piste race ski side of many skis. The Pivot brings out the all mountain/bump/some powder/off piste side of many skis, and the Attack13 AT demo is a bit in between: its very tall height (equivalent to a 10 mm plate added to most standard bindings) gives leverage, elevation, more authority/immediacy over the edges, and its toes give flex/greater range of motion before release to the toe (which I experience as more playful/off piste oriented). So I found myself liking best the AT Demo with the 183 AX (my buddy's setup). But not enough to search out yet another Demo AT for a switch. (I don't really want the PRD on the 175 AX.) Both setups are great for that 183 ski, actually.

I think I might prefer the Pivot on the 175 AX, but am largely ignorant in terms of great experience with this stellar binding, having only had it on three skis overall, and on two of those I switched out to a different binding, as I dimly recall, once I'd tried them. They were both much fatter skis, and I wanted a binding I could adjust the mount point with easily on the fly (Schizos first choice, demos second.) Rossi Black Ops 118 & ON3P 110 Jeffreys from some years back. I was happier with the Schizos, with those particular skis.

But on the Whiteout, the Pivots seem to feel just right - because for me one of the things about the Whiteout is that it's an amazingly versatile narrow all mountaiin ski: the suckers do up to maybe 5" powder/crud and powder/crud bumps amazingly well, a real treat. In fact, I'd just as soon be on them as my usual all mountain skis for that, the Blizzard Bonafides. (In deeper snow, I switch off both skis.)
 
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Dougb

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But on the Whiteout, the Pivots seem to feel just right - because for me one of the things about the Whiteout is that it's an amazingly versatile narrow all mountaiin ski: the suckers do up to maybe 5" powder/crud and powder/crud bumps amazingly well, a real treat. In fact, I'd just as soon be on them as my usual all mountain skis for that, the Blizzard Bonafides. (In deeper snow, I switch off both skis.)

I have the Whiteouts with Vist plates and those are by far my favorite skis. I like them less in bumps but that is probably me. I have often wondered what they would be like with Pivots. I happen to have a pair to throw on some skis…
 

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