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Utah LCC Gondola
- Thread starter KingGrump
- Start date
It's between widening the road for a bus lane and the gondola.
Snowbird is heavily promoting the gondola option. I really hope it's the bus lane. I think the gondola would really screw up the aesthetic of the canyon and the gondola base station is an area that already is a huge bottleneck right near the entrance of LCC. So even with a gondola you could (will) have severely bottlenecked traffic just to get to the gondola base station.
There were other solutions that could have been tried before these more drastic options such as big toll to discourage some drivers, mandatory bus for those that don't live up there or are not staying up there, mandatory carpooling for drivers, etc. But it's between a bus lane and a gondola.
Last year UDOT selected five finalists from the 105 proposals under consideration for transportation solutions to the ever-increasing congestion in LCC. Last Friday the field of five was narrowed to two, as identified by Wasatchman. The bus solution involves widening the canyon road an extra lane to be dedicated to buses during the season and cyclists during the rest of the year. it also increases bus service to one departure for Snowbird and Alta every five minutes. I suspect it will be several years before the chosen solution will be fully implemented, given potential legal issues/conflicts, EIS, etc. I also don't think the congestion problem will be resolved no matter which option is chosen, in light of the enormous in-migration of people to the Wasatch Front for the past three decades, which is projected to continue unabated. This is compounded by Utah's ever-growing popularity as a tourist destination.
In my comments on the proposal I said I supported both the gondi and enhanced busing, so I guess that means I cancelled myself out
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Thread Starter
TS
IMO, whatever it is, get it done.
Been skiing Alta and Snowbird since 1981. The last few seasons has not been pleasant getting up the hill. At this point, we don't even think about skiing the Bird unless we have lodging at the top of the hill.
Here is a little more on it.
www.ksl.com
Been skiing Alta and Snowbird since 1981. The last few seasons has not been pleasant getting up the hill. At this point, we don't even think about skiing the Bird unless we have lodging at the top of the hill.
Here is a little more on it.
Looking to trim cars off road, UDOT narrows options for future Little Cottonwood Canyon travel
You may, sometime in the not-so-distant future, be able to take a rapid bus service or possibly even a gondola up Little Cottonwood Canyon.
www.ksl.com
The traffic up the car canyons is plain tough. No doubt about it. I suppose one silver lining is that it acts somewhat as a limiter of traffic on the hill to help preserve the ski experience a little better if (once) you do make it up.IMO, whatever it is, get it done.
Been skiing Alta and Snowbird since 1981. The last few seasons has not been pleasant getting up the hill. At this point, we don't even think about skiing the Bird unless we have lodging at the top of the hill.
Here is a little more on it.
Looking to trim cars off road, UDOT narrows options for future Little Cottonwood Canyon travel
You may, sometime in the not-so-distant future, be able to take a rapid bus service or possibly even a gondola up Little Cottonwood Canyon.
It remains to be seen what the skiing experience might be like with a lot more traffic on the mountain.
But as @Daniel said, it is inevitable that we will continue face more traffic issues. Utah was the fastest growing state in the last 10 years and there is no sign at all that is slowing down. Combine that with continued growth in tourism and there is no escaping that crowds are going to continue to rise.
Yup. cogwheel train was one of the options that was considered. Unfortunately it did not make the final cut.
1) The bus lane doesn't help much when they do avy control.
2) LCC and BCC can be very crowded now, with the current road. They are now charging for parking at Solitude to encourage carpooling so I'm thinking that there are already too many cars/skiers at the top?
3) I'm thinking that a couple terrain expansions should be part of increasing the number of skiers.
2) LCC and BCC can be very crowded now, with the current road. They are now charging for parking at Solitude to encourage carpooling so I'm thinking that there are already too many cars/skiers at the top?
3) I'm thinking that a couple terrain expansions should be part of increasing the number of skiers.
Snowbird's had a terrain expansion in mind for some time to the south of Mineral Basin; Mary Ellen Gulch:
One day in 2021 we went to the far Bookends in Mineral Basin and my son showed me Mary Ellen Gulch, where he does some skinning and took an avalanche safety class this spring
Some day the master plan is to run a chairlift up to summit to right here in Mary Ellen Gulch at Snowbird.
Thread Starter
TS
I remember Mineral Basin was on the other side of the rope line many years ago. Then suddenly one year, it wasn't.
That looks like some decent terrain. Let's hope they get to it before I get too old to ski it.
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IMO, whatever it is, get it done.
Been skiing Alta and Snowbird since 1981. The last few seasons has not been pleasant getting up the hill. At this point, we don't even think about skiing the Bird unless we have lodging at the top of the hill.
Here is a little more on it.
Looking to trim cars off road, UDOT narrows options for future Little Cottonwood Canyon travel
You may, sometime in the not-so-distant future, be able to take a rapid bus service or possibly even a gondola up Little Cottonwood Canyon.
We stayed at the base of the canyons for our last trip but going forward I'm with you. I'll stay at GMD and take the airport shuttle to get there.
I read some of the comments on Snowbird's Instagram post and it's more of the same. Most everyone blames Ikon and thinks it will magically be fixed if Ikon goes away. As others have mentioned, the growing population in Utah is a big factor and isn't likely to stop anytime soon. I'd love to relocate to SLC just to be able to ski the canyons regularly but it's not in the cards. Can you blame others who want to live in such a beautiful place, let alone having access to world class snow and skiing?
I'd love to see the reaction of the Utah locals if they ever had to deal with the lines we regularly have in New England. I remember being in line at Jackson a few years ago and listening to some locals behind me bitching about the long wait. It was 5 minutes.
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Thread Starter
TS
We like the Cliff when we are staying on top of the hill.
For BCC/LCC, tourists with Ikon passes is a small parts of overall crowding problem. Locals with the Ikon pass. That is whole other can of worm. As I said before, we have skied SLC since 1981. Often multiple trips per year. Don't do CO much. I have seen the massive build up around SLC in the last 6 year or so. It is not good.
Few seasons back, we stayed at a Airbnb in Cottonwood Heights in early April. Had to go 6 blocks down the road so we can catch a light to make a left turn into the main drag. A left turn from a side street was all but impossible between 9-10 AM. Most cars on the road wasn't going up canyon but were going to work, running errands, CVS, supermarket, etc...
Late February, 2020. We were heading from Taos to Crystal. Didn't planned to ski the Bird until early April. So we did a overnight stop at the Hyatt in Lehi. I noticed they just completed the upgrade to the local roads as we pulled off I-15. The traffic was like, Wow. There were a brand new Micron factory and an Oracle building there. The whole scene reminded me of US-192 right outside Disney FL. Where all the stores repeats every 2 miles.
Jackson, beside the entitled locals. Also suffers from a poor lift layout. I was there in 2014 for 2-1/2 weeks. Two separate trips. One holiday week (President) and second one was on a non-holiday week. Both weeks, the tram line was running 5 boats long. The Bridger gondola had 45 minute line. The experience was underwhelming. Needless to say, a big let down 26 years after my season there.
We have been back to JH couple times since 2014. A week each in 2019 and 2020. A good part of the experience had improved. The tram line is still long. However, Bridger gondola was literally walk on both weeks. The big change was the addition of the Sweetwater gondola and the Teton Quad. The additional gondola out of the base eliminated the bottle for the initial upload. The Teton quad had the effect of moving the lower level skier from the steeps of Rendezvous Mountain to the less steep side of the resort. This in turn reduced the lines on Thunder and Sublet. IMO, JH needs additional lift capacity for the Rendezvous side of the resort. That will definitely reduce the tram line.
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- Dec 19, 2015
- Posts
- 2,647
Jackson has plenty of lines. Try getting up the hill on a powder morning!
LCC has long been a shit show on powder days as well, pre Ikon and pre Mtn. collective.
I could be wrong, but, I think I spend less time in lines at my NE haunts.
LCC has long been a shit show on powder days as well, pre Ikon and pre Mtn. collective.
I could be wrong, but, I think I spend less time in lines at my NE haunts.
Hoping for a Gondi and the bus lane.
1. Dump IKON and jack up season pass prices. problem solved. I'd gladly pay a couple thousand more to have the Alta of 5 or 6 seasons ago back
2. MORE SKI RESORTS IN UTAH!
3. Gondola
2. MORE SKI RESORTS IN UTAH!
3. Gondola
1. That will probably lead to less revenue for the resorts, because many people won't pay a high enough rate to go back to the conditions of 5 or 6 seasons ago. If that's true, it would likely be a non-starter from the resorts point of view.
2. YES ... though every time there more development proposed, there's a lot of pushback too, from the little I understand of it.
3. Yeah, I think it would be cool... but is there ample space for garages and parking at the gondola station at the bottom? Will traffic around the base station just be a nightmare?
There are too many cars/skiers at the top versus infrastructure but that still serves as a natural limiter of people on the mountain. Once you improve the infrastructure to get more people up, we may find the skier traffic on the mountain becomes problematic in terms of delivering a quality skiing experience.
It is what it is though. There isn't much you can do about it other than requiring reservations to ski that day. This is what they are thinking of doing at some of our more popular national parks and I'm all for it. In the future some ski resorts may have to consider such a draconian option to preserve the skiing experience.
I'm not so sure. Deer Valley season pass is over $2,000. Even with free Ikon days there seem to be plenty of people who pay it.
I think there is a good chance AltaBird and Jackson could jack up season pass prices and dump Ikon and be just fine. Especially when you consider the income demographics of many skiers. And those that are addicted to the sport will find a way to get their fix at higher prices. If I had to eat rice and beans to afford my ski pass, then I'd do it.
"Be just fine" is not quite the same as maintaining current revenue levels. By going Ikon in the first place, I presume they are not looking to be the kind of business that, say, PowMow (with it's limited passes/tickets) or Deer Valley are trying to be. (That said, there have also been a lot of comments that Deer Valley isn't what it used to be and gets too crowded too...)
If one of those business wanted to pivot and sell itself as a more exclusive experience with restrictions to prevent crowding, they'd likely get both a lot of flack, and a lot of applause, from different groups of people. I'd think that would be very interesting to see.